7/2 Bob AMPS=197, +3=278, +4=260, FRUCTOSEMINE RESUTS??

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Lkldcatlady

Lkldcatlady

Member Since 2013
Happy Tuesday! It's my last day off...

UGH! I'm so frustrated with this cat!!! I started yesterday with trying to transition to YA and, of course, Bob is giving me a hard time. He would eat, but he would pick through to get only the DM kibbles. He went from dish to dish (I have 3) and picked only what he wanted. I don't think he ate last night because he had a low number this morning. I added a little extra DM to his dish so he ate before his shot. I sat him down and told him how serious this situation is and that he needs to try a new food. He got distracted and started licking his paw, so I don't think he was really listening.

He doesn't seem to be drinking a lot like he was before either. Anyway, maybe I started too big. I did a 1:2 ratio so maybe I should go way less and go slower. I'm just ready to give up and deal with the fact he'll probably be on a lot of insulin because of his high carb food.

Hope everyone has a great day!!!

yesterday's condo
 
Re: 7/2 Bob AMPS=197, +3=278, +4=260, Bob's not eating??

Aw, Bob....eat your new fuds! I know how hard it is to convince a kitty to eat food s/he doesn't want to eat, that's for sure! Going a little more slowly with the transition may help convince him to make the switch.

One other trick that may help is sprinkling a little bit of FortiFlora on the food. It's a probiotic that is a flavor enhancer that has enticed many kitties to try new things! I've always mail-ordered my FortiFlora...I'm not sure if there is anywhere you can buy it locally, except maybe from a vet. Check on Amazon for good prices.

Good luck with the transition!!!
 
Re: 7/2 Bob AMPS=197, +3=278, +4=260, Bob's not eating??

Go as slowly as you need to. The point is to transition Bob and not have a power struggle. (If you haven't figured it out, the cat usually wins.)

If he's drinking less, that's a good sign. As numbers start to come down, water and food requirements also drop.
 
Re: 7/2 Bob AMPS=197, +3=278, +4=260, Bob's not eating??

:smile: Don't give up the ship,please don't eat the daisy's, Oh Bob, should of grounded him for not listening NO bird watching.
Have you tried baby food yet I would let him know feeding tubes are no fun.
Good luck maybe he change his mind. :smile:
Linda
 
Re: 7/2 Bob AMPS=197, +3=278, +4=260, Bob's not eating??

Thanks for the luck Amy! Bob is a texture kind of guy. Tried the fortiflora a few years back and he was like WTH??? Haven't tried again....

Sienne-I do know Bob will always win, I'm just so frustrated with his stubbornness. U would think SOMETHING would work. I was just a little scared of the ketones so I want to make sure he drinks enuf. Always something to worry about.

Awwww....thanks Linda for the song? Poem? I read it to bob. He enjoyed it but no luck yet with the food! :razz:
 
The specialist just called with Bob's fructosemine results. This is what she told me:

1. His number is 479 - this is NOT a BG number. According to her, this number means that Bob is "fairly regulated"
2. I pointed out that his numbers are in the range for kidney damage and she says this is true for humans but not so much for kitties.
3. She does not want me to increase his insulin

Ok, let me just say that I am not happy where Bob's numbers are. I did do some research and Bob does fall in the "fairly regulated" range. I'm pretty upset here - I really want a vet that knows what's going on with my cat - I want to be honest about it. I've already spent $1500 with this specialist and I don't think I'll be going back. Is it true that most vets consider Bob's numbers as fairly regulated? He has been acting better and drinking less, but I worry about long-term effects of those high numbers which the specialist doesn't seem to be concerned with.

What to do, what to do???
 
He's better than he was; not as good as he could be. Are you following the Tight Regulation Protocol? Its in a sticky post at the top of the forum.

You might print out the AAHA guidelines to share with the vet, if you think it'd be read.

There are some Vet Interview Topics in my signature link, should you decide to go looking for a new vet.
 
BJM said:
He's better than he was; not as good as he could be. Are you following the Tight Regulation Protocol? Its in a sticky post at the top of the forum.

You might print out the AAHA guidelines to share with the vet, if you think it'd be read.

There are some Vet Interview Topics in my signature link, should you decide to go looking for a new vet.

He's better than he was; not as good as he could be. Are you following the Tight Regulation Protocol? Its in a sticky post at the top of the forum.

You might print out the AAHA guidelines to share with the vet, if you think it'd be read.

There are some Vet Interview Topics in my signature link, should you decide to go looking for a new vet.
Click to expand...

Thanks BJM. Unfortunately, I'm in central florida and all the vets are pretty much the same. I thought the specialist would be different and I had to drive an hour with poor Bob to see her. Anyway, I guess he is a little better although I also think the Relion meter is showing a lot lower than the Alphatrak did. MelanieP sent me a link that showed that a 479 fructosemine test is approx. a 300 BG number. So, it does seem to be a little better, but I'm wanting to see a lot better. Trying to follow the TR protocol, but someone never told Bob. He is being VERY difficult with the transition to wet (or even YA or lower carb dry) food. He had a pretty low number this morning and it was because he did not eat last night because I dared to mix YA with his regular dry nasty food. Just taking it a day at a time....
 
BJM said:
He's better than he was; not as good as he could be. Are you following the Tight Regulation Protocol? Its in a sticky post at the top of the forum.

You might print out the AAHA guidelines to share with the vet, if you think it'd be read.

There are some Vet Interview Topics in my signature link, should you decide to go looking for a new vet.

He's better than he was; not as good as he could be. Are you following the Tight Regulation Protocol? Its in a sticky post at the top of the forum.

You might print out the AAHA guidelines to share with the vet, if you think it'd be read.

There are some Vet Interview Topics in my signature link, should you decide to go looking for a new vet.
Click to expand...

Thanks BJM. Unfortunately, I'm in central florida and all the vets are pretty much the same. I thought the specialist would be different and I had to drive an hour with poor Bob to see her. Anyway, I guess he is a little better although I also think the Relion meter is showing a lot lower than the Alphatrak did. MelanieP sent me a link that showed that a 479 fructosemine test is approx. a 300 BG number. So, it does seem to be a little better, but I'm wanting to see a lot better. Trying to follow the TR protocol, but someone never told Bob. He is being VERY difficult with the transition to wet (or even YA or lower carb dry) food. He had a pretty low number this morning and it was because he did not eat last night because I dared to mix YA with his regular dry nasty food. Just taking it a day at a time....
 
Here are the fructosamine ranges that the lab my vet uses provided:
  • 300 - 350 Excellent
  • 350 - 400 Good
  • 400 - 450 Fair
  • >450 Poor,
  • <250 Prolonged hypo
So based on Bob's numbers, he's got Poor control. I'm not sure if your vet uses a different lab with different reference ranges. (My vet uses IDEXX.) A fructoseamine of <250 would put the cat in a normal BG range and not "prolonged hypo." Go figure!

Fructosamine numbers aside, most vets are not used to having their clients home test. As a result, they find it acceptable to have the cat in higher numbers so there's a margin of safety. What this means is that people don't sue them because the dose they suggested (and failed to instruct the caregiver to home test) threw the cat into a hypoglycemic crisis. If you don't home test, this perspective makes sense especially since dose adjustments are often made based on fructosamine numbers.

The following information is from Cornell University Vet School:
The renal threshold for glucose is species-dependent and is reported to be 180-220 mg/dL in dogs, 280-290 mg/dL in cats (lower thresholds may occur in diabetic cats), and 150 mg/dL in horses and cattle.
Click to expand...
The only way to know what Bob's renal threshold is would be to use diastix to test for urinary glucose. You'd need to repeatedly test his urine and zero in on when he does test positive or negative for sugar and what his BG is at the time. So for now, thinking of renal threshold in the mid-to-low 200s seems like a reasonable rule of thumb. I'd also note that the info is from Cornell which is arguably the best vet school in the in the country.

I can't speak for what most vets would think but I don't think Bob is regulated yet. IMHO, there's still too much pink and not enough blue and green on his SS to consider him regulated..
 
Lkldcatlady said:
... I also think the Relion meter is showing a lot lower than the Alphatrak did....
Click to expand...

The AlphaTrak will read about 30 points higher at low numbers than the ReliOn. Its like reading temperature in Fahrenheit vs Celsius (ex freezing at 32 degrees Fahrenheit vs 0 degrees Celsius). You want to go no lower than 80 mg/dL on an Alphatrak vs 50 mg/dL on a Relion.
 
Sienne - I agree with with u 100%. I have emailed my regular vet (who referred me to the specialist) and sent them the Lantus dosing chart and the TR protocol and told them I want them to be aware of what I will be doing. I'm tired of them telling me that it's ok for bob to stay in the 300's. it just really surprises me.

BJM-so what about the large difference in the high numbers? Is one or the other meter more correct? Of course, the vets INSIST the alphatrak is more accurate, but according to the fructosemine test, it looks like the relion would be more accurate.
 
Lkldcatlady said:
...BJM-so what about the large difference in the high numbers? Is one or the other meter more correct? Of course, the vets INSIST the alphatrak is more accurate, but according to the fructosemine test, it looks like the relion would be more accurate.
Click to expand...

Once you're over the renal threshold, it doesn't matter. High is high is high... and you take corrective action following the protocol.
 
Your Bob seems similar to my Gilbert in #s. When his #s get low (good) he shoots up again. I am new to this, but have found this forum so very helpful. My vet hasn't dealt w/ many diabetic cats so this is pretty much all I have. I have been wearing my patient panties & hanging in there. Love my boy & want him to get better!! You hang in there too!
 
Christy & Gilbert said:
Your Bob seems similar to my Gilbert in #s. When his #s get low (good) he shoots up again. I am new to this, but have found this forum so very helpful. My vet hasn't dealt w/ many diabetic cats so this is pretty much all I have. I have been wearing my patient panties & hanging in there. Love my boy & want him to get better!! You hang in there too!
Click to expand...

Hey Christy - I checked out Gilbert's numbers and they do look very similar! they just sort of hover in the 300's all day long....I just don't get it! I did spend a month on Prozinc, so I hope I start seeing some better results soon before the dose gets too humongus. I'm trying to get Bob on low carb food but it is proving very hard!! I try to keep my patience pants on , but it's hard! I want to see some good numbers NOW! Anyway, this site is VERY helpful, so I'm glad you found it. I'll keep an eye on Gilbert and see how he's doing. Good Luck!
 
Hey there...just viewed Bob's SS & looks like no red or black for the last 11 days or so :cool: Gilbert is doing a little better in his #s as well. I am up to 4u w/ him. Glad to see Bob's #s improving!
 
Hey Christy! Well, I did switch to the Relion meter which tends to read lower than the Alphatrak which I was using. Not sure if his numbers are better or it's just the meter. I know I have to get him on canned food and haven't been able to do that lately. I checked out Gilbert's ss - they do seem to be pretty close to Bob's. I just increased Bob to 4.25. Is Gilbert on wet food?
 
Yes he is on wet food & very little dry. I changed him over to Blue wilderness ckn recipe...it is the lowest carb I can find on the market w/o getting the diabetic dry which is hard to find & not really a good food in my opinion. He is getting FF & sometimes Friskies...all of which are the low carb versions. I stay under 10 on carbs & usually around 4-8. I printed out all the low carb foods & the values of protein & fat & take that w/ me shopping. I am about to figure out what he likes & can eat. He doesn't eat a lot...I try to get him to eat more, but he will only do what he will do. I space out feedings throughout the day to get him more because I don't want him losing any more weight. He & his bubby Pete are outside kitties....they absolutely despise it indoors so the stupid yellow jackets have been giving us fits about there wet food since it is so hot :sad: , but we are hanging w/ it. I highly recommend getting him on mostly wet food...it makes such a big difference! Good luck :smile:
 
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