7/19TomcatPMPS142+3=40,+4=102,+5=130,+6=79,+6.5=58+7=59

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tomtom13

tomtom13

Member Since 2013
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Afternoon all

well...here i sit with another decision of what number I can shoot?!!! I am not ready to shoot this low yet

the reason why he is as low as this is because he hasn't eaten NEARLY as much as usual

I am not too sure why? his appetite has decreased over the last few days.

He had some grass earlier and did puke...but no hairball-just foam.

He has eaten though....total of 1 can of ff at AMPS/+2. and perhaps 1/2 can later on.

I looked inside his mouth to see if I could see some sort of infection....but I don't know what I am looking for?

I don't have any Pepcid Ad but I can go get some. He isn't having a puke feast by any means. Perhaps I can look on the Brightside and think his appetite has dropped off with his new lower values?

anyway.....on with the pressing matter

I am delaying shot time until I see him rise some....here is the question:

CAN I GIVE A REDUCED DOSE CONSIDERING I KNOW I AM NOT GOING TO GET THAT MUCH FOOD IN HIM THIS PM?

I know Lantus doesn't really work like that.....but thought I would ask

I also know it isn't good to skip a shot just because they aren't eating...right?

I did start 1 pill of zobaline about a week ago...could it be that? has anyone experienced appetite issues with zobaline?

thanks all

~kelly
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat AMPS 320, +7=139, +12=98 DOSE?

When cats get more regulated, they need less food. That's probably part of what's happening with Tomcat. Can you look at the can and see how many calories he's eating?

A full dose is indeed best tonight. Partial is allowed, and you hold the syringe so the decision is yours. Delaying acts like a bit of a reduction already so if you delay, a full dose is best. You've been down the delay route, so you know how that goes. Wait until you see him rise, testing every 1/2 hour without feeding. Do you have a number you are comfortable shooting?

Do you have plenty of strips, HC food and are home to monitor tonight?
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat AMPS 320, +7=139, +12=98 DOSE?

When you look at his teeth, you are looking to see if there is red/inflamed tissue at the gumline or some swelling. A bad tooth will also look off colour, possibly yellower or darker than the surrounding ones. Infections can also smell bad.
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat AMPS 320, +7=139, +12=98 DOSE?

I thought I had a number I was okay shooting....WHEN HE ATE ANYTHING, ANYTIME!!

tonight it is a bit more hairy :o

yes, I have all the tools on board

I am relieved to read you think part of his low appetite issues are related to lower values

thanks!

I will give full dose when he and I are ready?.....and I will keep checking every 30 mins.
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat AMPS 320, +7=139, +12=98 DOSE?

With the ketones that Tomcat is prone to, you need to be more aggressive with the insulin dose. It was only on 7/17 that you got your first negative ketone test. Take that into consideration when you dose tonight.
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat AMPS 320, +7=139, +12=98 DOSE?

NO...CORRECTION

he has never tested positive with ketones.

always negative

it was the URINE DIASTIX he is always positive with. 7/17 was his first negative DIASTIX result

I will change that on his SS as it is confusing
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat AMPS 320, +7=139, +12=98 PMPS=142

OKAY CRISIS IS OVER

thanks guys

I shot an hour late normal dose at PMPS=142

Thanks for the hand holding YET AGAIN.....now I guess I will move down that SHOOT NUMBER down to ......112 or so YIKES ;-)

perhaps his nadir is shifting....?
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat AMPS 320, +7=139, +12=98 PMPS=142

Since this is the lowest you've shot in a while, I think a +2 would be great to get.
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat AMPS 320, +7=139, +12=98 DOSE?

Good shooting. Next time try delaying 1/2 hour and see what you get. Maybe a no shoot or delay of 10% less? So 125-130 next time? Much easier to get back on track from a half hour delay. I find that Neko's nadir is later if she starts higher. But she's not a good example, her nadir wanders all over the place.

From Dr. Lisa on http://www.catinfo.org
Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70
Click to expand...
I see Tom's last weight was 10.5. How much does the vet think he should weigh? That would be his lean body weight in the above formula. Using his current weight the formula gets around 210 calories/day. Look at the amount of calories in what you are feeding him and see if it's about right. The FF classics are in the neighborhood of 90 kcal a can, so two and a half cans would be a good amount.

The foamy pukus you saw is something I occasionally see when Neko is hungry.
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat AMPS 320, +7=139, +12=98 PMPS=142

yes I will get a +2 for sure!!

lowest I have shot in a while with the shortest delay!
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat AMPS 320, +12=98 PMPS=142, +2=65

well +2 is 65

I have a feeling that isn't good! :o :shock:

long night?

I just offered a mixture of mc/lc food. he had just a few bites. acts hungry though....like he is holding out for something better

then I broke up 1/2 piece of turkey deli meat (that does have sugar in it) he ate that of course

considering this is way early in the cycle....

should I become proactive now and give a little HC....or just keep testing?
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat AMPS 320, +12=98 PMPS=142, +2=65

You said you already give him a little bit of food. Let's test again in 20-30 minutes to see if he is up.

We may keep him surfing tonight.
 

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Re: 7/19 Tomcat AMPS 320, +12=98 PMPS=142, +2=65

If the deli turkey had sugar in it, I wouldln't add more HC. I would re-test at +2.5, though and see where Tomcat's numbers have gone. If his +2.5 is lower, then I'd give him a teaspoon or so of HC. You're doing great!!

BTW, I think Wendy's point is on target. As kitties spend more time in better numbers, their appetite decreases because more glucose is going in the cells to provide nutrition vs. floating around in the blood.
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat +12=98 PMPS PMPS=142, +2=65, +2.5=48

okay.....it is lower.

gave table. of HC....he only really licked all the gravy...left most of the chunks

forgot it is teaspoon....

I freaked....really want to give entire can!!

test in another 30?
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat +12=98 PMPS PMPS=142, +2=65, +2.5=48

Yes - test in 30. You've got lots of eyes.
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS=142, +2=65, +2.5=48, +3=40

OKAY +3=40

going down

I gave 2 table. of HC
he ate it pretty well/noisily

when do I get the karo out?

he is drinking water like crazy....should I take that away from him as to not fill up the stomach?
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS=142, +2=65, +2.5=48, +3=40

I would have limited the HC to a couple tsp. Still early yet and might need him to eat for a while. I'd break out the karo now. How about a couple of decent sized drops on his food.
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS=142, +2=65, +2.5=48, +3=40

okay

the karo didn't fly. but the mrs. buttersworth did

test in 30 I guess
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS=142, +2=65, +2.5=48, +3=40

See you in 30. Is he still going crazy for the water?

Up Tomcat please!
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS=142, +2=65, +2.5=48, +3=40

okay he is up to 62

now what?
when?
had 2 tablespoons of HC about 30 so minutes ago and then pancake syrup about 20 mins ago

he is snoozing deeply...hardly cared I poked him
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS=142, +2=65, +2.5=48, +3=40, +3.5=62

I LOVE syrup! It's usually good for a quick BG pick me up. I usually use it if the lows are really early in the cycle or we go below 40. Tomcat was a bit of both.

Tomcat started getting higher carb food at +2, so some of that could start wearing off. Let's test again in 30 and see where to go from there. I'd like him to be higher before going to one hour testing.
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS=142, +2.5=48, +3=40, +3.5=62, +4=102

okay +4=102

PHEW...for now

gotta love that pancake syrup!!
;-)
he is sound asleep....

when do I offer food again? what kind?

when do I test again?
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS=142, +2.5=48, +3=40, +3.5=62, +4=102

Let's hold off on food for now. You want a couple of non food influenced rising tests before calling it a night. How about testing again in an hour? After seeing what syrup does to kitties, I always wonder what it does to us. :lol: Great job so far tonight Kelly!

We haven't talked about deductions yet, but it looks like Tomcat's really working his insulin. :-D :-D
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS=142, +2.5=48, +3=40, +3.5=62, +4=102

okay, I will check again in a hour

I could go on and on and on with the what ifs

but I will just wait until we see the actual numbers

as far as a reduction???? jeez......what does the protocol say about holding a reduction, it has only been 3 cycles at new reduced dose...I imagine It is the same for any dose....since he was 40 tonight...that is a automatic reduction right?

and if he is SKYHIGH in the am...do I get the one time only shooting through the bounce....

or am I wasting all our times until we see how he does later tonight?

I don't know why I am even questioning the reduction: I FEEL LIKE WE BOTH NEED A FEW NON INSULIN DAYS AFTER THIS!! but I know that is the wrong attitude!

thanks all

I was pretty shaky there for a bit!!!!....well, truth be told: I STILL AM
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS=142, +2.5=48, +3=40, +3.5=62, +4=102

OKAY UP TO 130

he is demanding to eat....so I gave him a little LC FF

test in one hour?

reduce in morning?

if 300 or more....shoot through the bounce one cycle only?

thanks all!!
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS 142 +3=40, +3.5=62, +4=102, +5=130

Yes on the test in one hour. All his high carb food and syrup should be out of his system by then and give you an idea if it's OK to call it a night.

I've asked some more experienced eyes to look at the reduction question.
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS 142 +3=40, +3.5=62, +4=102, +5=130

Kelly

I'd give him two hours...he's coming up and it's been since +3 that you gave HC.

Wendy, Sienne, and I are talking about whether to reduce or not so we will get back to you shortly.

I've got a bit of a different thought about shooting low numbers. Instead of setting a "no shoot" number, any time you get a number lower than you've shot before, don't feed, and then post for help. Someone can help you determine if its safe to shoot and then stay with you to help you.

The sooner you learn to shoot lower, when it is safe, the better for Tom. Skipping and stalling are ok at first and are especially necessary if there is any question about safety. But the best thing for Tom is to shoot on time consistently with the current dose provided it is safe including that his PS number is above 50.

"Shoot low to stay low" :-D
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS 142 +3=40, +3.5=62, +4=102, +5=130

Kelly

Ok...it's unsnimous :-D :-D Wendy, Sienne, and I think you are fine to reduce Toms dose in the morning to 4u.

Normally, we want to be cautious about taking reductions too close together. However, you had a skipped shot, he's gotten down to 40 tonight and is coming back down again. That tells us you are safer to reduce his dose then to leave it at 4.25u. Sound good?
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS142+3=40,+3.5=62,+4=102, +5=130,+6=79

okay he is dropping: +6=79

start checking every 30 mins. now?

can I offer food?

for some reason I can't post tonight...I keep posting and hit submit and I have to log in again and again and again....is there a solution?

tonight of all nights!
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS142+3=40,+3.5=62,+4=102, +5=130,+6=79

yes, reduction sounds grand at this point!!

even though, I know it is only food related.....appetite is just low the last few days. doesn't act sick though.

oh well....if his appetite gets back on track...and we need an increase...we do it then

even if he is 300 or above in AM then reduce anyway right? no shooting through the bounce this time?

I have figured out the key to getting tom OTJ.......don't feed him. done. that simple
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS142+3=40,+3.5=62,+4=102, +5=130,+6=79

You could give him a little low carb food. This would be a great place to surf.

You could still shoot through the bounce, it's up to you how comfortable you feel with doing that.
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS142+3=40,+4=102, +5=130,+6=79, +6.5=58

He's already earned his reduction. Time to abort this cycle and get him high enough for you to sleep. Would he eat HC at this point?
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS142+3=40,+4=102, +5=130,+6=79, +6.5=58

Marje:

I agree with you regarding shooting consistently on time every 12 hours......is best for Tom. I have been all over the place this week with the poor guy. however, the results are pretty good no?

the problem with me posting and asking for help is .....I shoot at 4 am.

I doubt there is going to be much help that time of day

why can't we all agree on a good number now....

I know you will say any number above 50 right

YIKES

I am very very very nervous about that as I know he will still be very low come AMPS and given tonight....wow!! but then again, the way he is sliding...I may have to break out that syrup again in an hour!! and then he will be PINK/RED in the am

he just ate a little bit of LC food .......I will just wait until I get less than 50 to break out the HC right? I test again in 15 mins
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS142+3=40,+4=102, +5=130,+6=79, +6.5=58

Kelly

I'll answer the other questions in a second but if you need to get to bed, do as Wendy suggests and give HC to abort the cycle, k?
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS142+3=40,+4=102, +5=130,+6=79, +6.5=58

Time to abort this cycle
Click to expand...



hahahahha. I like that! :razz:

sleep is not a problem for me. I am a night owl. whatever is good for Tom. Is it "bad" for them to be this low when they aren't used to it....or does he welcome this?

anyway...when I test again in a few minutes...I will offer some HC. I already have 3 cans open anyway!

unless of course I am greeted with a 40 again....then it is syrup time
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS142+3=40,+4=102, +5=130,+6=79, +6.5=58

You are doing such a good job Kelly!

What I've noticed about Bob is when he has the big dips, like 403 in the AMPS and then 117 at +5 or +6, I can tell he doesn't feel great for a couple of days. When he stays kind of straight (even when he's in the 300's), he seems to feel better. We just gotta get them low and straight I guess. Its a control game with a kitty pancreas!

Hang in there!
 
59 so we are holding steady

I will keep checking

perhaps when he wants to eat, I should offer HC food.....I mean it is "cruel" to keep poking and pricking his ears?

I won't go to bed until I know he is super safe

thanks everyone!!
 
Re: 7/19 Tomcat PMPS142+3=40,+4=102, +5=130,+6=79, +6.5=58

Sounds like a plan.

I know you will say any number above 50 right
Click to expand...

I see my reputation proceed me :lol: :lol:

I would say that in most cases, yes. But there are alot of things to consider when deciding whether you will shoot above 50:

Do you have supplies (strips, HC food/gravy/syrup)
Are you rested and will you be home to test
Are you shooting a dropping number or a second dip?
Is kitty eating normally?

Shooting dropping numbers are a great way to take advantage of carryover and overlap but you have to be on the ball because numbers are likely to keep dropping after PS and then kitty might onset. Dropping numbers occur when the BG slides from one PS to the next so the lowest number is at PS. You can see this when a kitty is clearing a bounce or in a kitty with a late nadir. A second dip is when the kitty has already nadired, come up, and then dips back down at the end of the cycle...but not lower than the nadir. Is usually safe to shoot a second dip but you still need to get that +1 and +2 because they might just surf until onset.

You are correct...there are not too many people on at 4 a.m. Dyana comes on early but not usually until 5 or 5:30.
 
Do you have supplies (strips, HC food/gravy/syrup)
Are you rested and will you be home to test
Are you shooting a dropping number or a second dip?
Is kitty eating normally
Click to expand...

yes

yes...sort of :roll:

not sure what I am shooting?

kitty is definitely not eating normally

given all that

what number?

should I abort the cycle given his ears? isn't it a bit cruel to continue to poke or it is best for the cat to stay low


DARA:

yes, I see that Tom seems more hyped when he is high too! I figured when and if I ever got him in these nice low numbers he would be like a kitten running all around feeling so good.....nope. sleeping
 
That's right, Deb :roll: :roll: I forgot Tom and Kelly are central time so Dyana is usually on close to when you shoot, Kelly.

All those questions are hypothetical for each PS.

For tomorrow, if he is over 300, you can shoot through the bounce if you like but remember that sometimes when the depot is full, they can come right back down on you. That has happened several times for me with Gracie. So if you are tired or can't be home to test, you might not want to shoot through the bounce.

If he's still surfing lower numbers above 50, look and see if he's dropping or if he has come up and then is getting a second dip. And same question.....are you tired? Can you test?

Is it cruel to keep poking his ears? I would not say it is cruel. If he's doing ok and it's keeping him safe, then test you must. As soon as you see him headed up, I'd lengthen the time between tests,
 
But 5 am Dyana's time is 4 AM for Tomcat
Click to expand...


okay, given my shot time was delayed this cycle and given my allotted 15 mins to move the shot time

I will need to do AMPS around 4:45am tomorrow....so that is what I will do

I will post and ask then

if I don't get an answer...I will just stall. like I have all week!!

I have a +7.5=60

so holding steady

so I think the HC threat is over....when he wants just feed normal foods then....

can I start testing every hour now?
 
Hey Kelly - good job! good job! Does Tom act like his ears hurt? That's the one thing Bob has been easy about. Certainly wasn't the food and certainly isn't the amount of insulin he needs. Occasionally, he gets tired of me touching his ears (I think it's more when I squeeze to stop the blood flow) and he will pull his ear away. I don't think it's cruel - gotta do what you gotta do. Make sure you explain the situation to him! He will understand what must be done.

Try to get a little sleep! Take care.
 
thanks dara!!

no he really doesn't give me a problem.....just kinda scratches his ears once in a while...shakes his head when I walk up and "beeps" a little sometimes...but sometimes before I even poke!

get to bed Dara

you did great too!!

thanks for checking in......til tomorrow YIKES
 
Normally we say go to hourly if he's in the 80's. I think you can move to hourly testing if you leave a little LC food for him to snack on. It is getting late in the cycle and I think it's been 3.5-4 hours since his last high carb? I worry about giving him too much food now, as you want him to eat for AMPS too.
 
okay still holding 60

I think we are good.

I will test again in 30

if he is still at 60 ......am I good?

or do I need to see it rising?

obviously, when he want to eat....LC RIGHT?

yes, Marje: if it is a rising number...why wait. you are right.

since he hasn't SHOT UP does that mean his liver is getting more trained to the "old healthy life :razz:
 
yes it has been 4 hours since HC AND SYRUP

he had just a bite of LC 1.5 hrs ago


one more thing before we part

WHAT IF HIS NUMBER IS NOT RISING IN THE AM?
 
Post for help if he isn't rising in the morning. If no one is around, stall and test every 20-30 minutes and shoot the rise.

The link to Dealing with Low Preshots is in my signature block.
 
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