7/19 Lightning - AMPS 581, +6 439, PMPS 364

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Pamela and Lightning

Pamela and Lightning

Member Since 2010
I got Lightning home from my mom's last night and he had been doing good all weekend.....his PMPS was 250 and I gave him 1/2 can M/D and then started with the new FF. It was only a 3 oz can so I started with half but I could tell he was hungry so I gave him the rest within 20 mins. I gave him his 2units and everything was good.

At +4 he was down to 45 and asking for food so I gave him 1/8 dry and he still kept wanting more (literally going over to where I keep the dry food and looking at it). So I ended up about 3/4 cup into it and he finally seemed satisfied. I tested again at +5 and he was only at 49. I gave about 1/3 cup more food before bed and was really nervous about what was going to happen over the next 6 hours......guess I was right.

At +10 I woke up hearing him throw-up and found 4 piles of throw-up, all under-digested dry food :( Plus some loose stool in the cat box. I was devastated! He didn't look bad, he's actually acting very normal, but his tummy must be in a world of hurt. I tested him and now he's at 480!!! I gave him just 1/4 can of the wet because I think he needs something in his belly....he ate it, and now is chugging water like a maniac.

Did I mess up? Did I cause this? Is this my signal for no more dry food? I don't know why the numbers were SOOOOOO low and he was really ravenous for food so I got scared. And his number is just going to go up from here right, so do I give the 2 units now or wait until he has more in his stomach and its been 12 hours from the last shot? I am so confused on what to do next!
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

Pamela,

let me get this straight, he is 480 now, and had some food yes?

when is your shot time this morning? in an hour from now?
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

Yes, he's eating right now. He would normally get a shot in about an hour and a half....is it ok to do it now? he actually just ate another 1/4 of the can, so 1/2 can total.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

IS 480 a +11 number? I would shoot at your AMPS time (+12) so you stay on schedule ok?
Also, because he ate before +12 (after +10) again, your AMPS number will be food influenced.
Remember no food in the two hours before shot time,.

If he is still high at AMPS, I would stick to the dose. (ETA: see below/wait for feedback on dose) Unless some says otherwise. Post your AMPS (+12) when you have it)
Him eating dry, puking it up may of have raised the number this much.
Are you home to monitor this morning?



When I was still giving dry food at the beginning along with wet food, Luna would puke up the dry, tended to eat it too fast.
They tend to have sensitive tummy's when you are transitioning, so it's best to do it slowly.

I think you've heard, dry take s longer to bring numbers up, and takes longer to clear the system.

When you get those low numbers, gravy is best (HC) and a retest - you want to make sure he is in a good range like 50's and up before you go to bed...
I know you will get scared if u go to bed and he might go lower, this is why we suggest top off the bedtime food with a bit of HC to help him surf through the cycle.

Don't beat yourself up - this is how we learn right? It will be ok!
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

Yes, the 480 is +10.5 (ish). I wasn't sure if I should give food or not, but I was just so frazzled with him throwing up so much that I figured he needed to eat something, now looking back I see that was silly to assume. And now I'm going to be making him have crazy numbers in the next few hours.

I don't have to go into work today, so I'll be home all day to check on him. He's actually completely fine now, just hanging out in one of his favorite spots. So I'm hoping he'll be ok, he probably hates that I get so crazy about things and just wants me to chill out!!

I don't know if I can go back to sleep for another hour, I'll probably just hang out with him and do his AMPS a little earlier than normal (just 30 mins or so). That way I can get the insulin in him and hope for the best.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

oh as for the big drop after PMPS last nite - (I didn't find a condo for you for yesterday) so looking at spreadsheet, one of the best test times to get is a +3
Try to get into that habit ok? +3 will always give you a good indicator of what's going on and what might happen - other than that - I'm very glad you caught the 40's when you did!

And you can always open a thread here to get help.

EDIT TO ADD: post your AMPS number this morning, I'm re-questioning the dose, and going to get someone to have a look ok?


Please check back for AMPS before you shoot ok?
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

I think I would agree with Ronnie that the dose needs to be adjusted.....based on the fact that you are eliminating the dry and fact that Lightning dropped to the 40's yesterday.
See what others think.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

I'm not sure what a condo is? I've seen people say that on here but I'm not familiar with it enough yet....

I will post the AMPS as soon as I have it....its just going to be outrageous I'm sure!
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

condo is our term for a thread. Condo/thread same thing. You know like a kitty condo?
Those things are expensive!
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

Oops...where are my manners. I did not realize how new you were and that I had not posted in your condo (daily threads are called condo's) before so welcome.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

OK, now i get the "condo" thing :) Yeah, i didn't do one because I had just gotten back from vacation and was just wanting to unpack and relax. Guess I should've changed that approach once I started getting the 40 numbers....

Hi Miriam, no worries, thanks for the welcome!
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

A condo is Lightning's thread for the day. Each cat has one condo per day.

I agree -- a dose reduction is earned when numbers drop below 50 in a newly diagnosed (first year) cat. (New dose is 1.75u.) However, if the numbers are still high, you can shoot the old dose through the rebound and shoot the new dose tonight.

A few FYIs:
  • I would not shoot early today. It will play havoc with your schedule tomorrow since your next shot is 12 hours from your previous shot. You will be off schedule tonight and tomorrow until you can recoup the time.
  • Dose reductions may come quickly as you eliminate dry food. You need to keep an eye on the numbers and get spot checks when you can.
  • You probably gave way too much food last night when trying to bring numbers up. (A can of M/D - not sure if this is the 7 oz. can + a can of FF = 10+ oz of canned plus almost 1-1/3 C of dry.) Usually, when bumping up numbers with FF, we feed about a teaspoon and re-test in 15 - 20 min. We repeat this process until numbers come up. (Sometimes, this can take a while.)
  • Dry food takes much longer to get into the system. You kept feeding -- which was the right thing to do -- except the effect of the dry is delayed compared with the gravy from a high carb canned food which is almost immediate. If you overfeed, you end up with scarf-n-barf.
  • Right now, you are probably seeing a combination of the lingering effect of dry food coupled with a bounce from the greens.

In looking at Lightning's SS, I would also encourage you to get at least one spot check every cycle. With the pre-shots in the blues, you really need to have some idea where the cycle is going.

It's also safer for you to stay awake or set an alarm and test when you have low numbers rather than go to sleep. It's entirely possible that Lightning's numbers dropped more last night. Until you know how your cat reacts to both low numbers and food, it's really helpful to test more often than once per hour. It will give you more control

If you do not have high carb (gravy style -- marinated or grilled varieties) FF at home, please pick some up today. Check Janet & Binky's list for the types that are over 15% carb.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

ok, AMPS (if i can even call it that...) is at 561. Out of the ballpark! So should I feed again (or was the half can I gave him an hour and a half ago enough) and just give him the 2 units now?
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

you'll want to have food available even if he doesn't eat it right now - is he interested in eating now?
can you make sure he eats for the next couple of hours (+1, +2)

let's get a +3 test too.

Remember small snacks at a time. Wet food preferably.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

Go ahead and shoot the 2.0u this cycle. I'd give Lightning food - or at least make sure there's some available when he does get hungry.

For the future, remember to not feed within 2 hours of shot time. This is more of an issue when numbers are low but it's a good rule of thumb. You don't want the pre-shot numbers to be influenced by food.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on? AMPS 561!

I think he will eat now....he's looking at the place with food anyways....plus Thunder is trying to get into the food too...almost forgot about feeding him in all the hysteria this morning!

Going to give Lightning the 2 units now and I'll see what he can eat.

So I should start testing again every hour?
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

With his numbers this high, I wouldn't test hourly. I'd get a test at either +2 or +3 to see if numbers are coming down. Since you're going to be home, if you want to get a mini-curve (i.e., test every 3 hours), it will help you to see how Lightning works his way through rebound.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - +3 518!

OK, he's gone down just a little from his AMPS, but not much at all....is that too be expected with the food I gave him? He's eaten about 1 can from this morning until now. He's very sleepy now too....I had to wake him up to get the shot and he's moving a little slow. Is there anything I can do for him or have I totally wrecked him for the day?
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

possible the dry food still in there....can u add his AMPS to your subject line please?
I'm finding it hard to follow without the amps in plain sight @-) LOL

You wanna go for a +6? that would be ok.

No stressing ok? Give him hugs!
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - AMPS 561, +3 518

I keep changing the subject line when I post but then I don't see it changed after I submit it. Am I doing something wrong?

I already have the reminder set to test again at +6. I have some wet food out for him if he feels hungry, which I am VERY surprised to see him ignore, but i guess that's because he's full from all the food earlier. I really hope it was the remainder of the dry food making his number so high, but with all the throw up I cleaned up this morning I wouldn't think there's anything left.

Trying not to stress...very hard though! Oh no, he's throwing up again!!! Shoot!!
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - What is going on?

what is he throwing up?
im wondering if the mix of DM wet, FF and dry just didn't sit right with him...keep us posted ok?



PS: subject line in your first post on this thread. thats prob why.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - AMPS 561, +3 518

Ok, I replied to my first post so hopefully this works this time...

he's throwing up what looks like just the canned M/D, that's all he's had today, none of the FF. it looks like he threw up all of it too. i found him in my closet after I cleaned it up....like he was hiding or something...poor guy. now he's laying down in my bed, which he RARELY does. maybe he's trying to make me feel better....he knows i love it when he jumps on my bed and hangs out there!
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - AMPS 581, +3 518

How do you feel about a vet visit? A hiding kitty is never a good sign. It's hard to know if this is the front end of a problem (e.g., constipation, a blockage) or just something that's off. I'd feel better if you at least called your vet.

It's possible that Lightning's stomach is still upset or that 1 can of M/D was too much. (It's also really crappy food but that's another issue.) It's 5 oz vs. FF which is around 3 or 3/5 oz.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - AMPS 581, +3 518

any update on the poop lately? is it still loose?


any chance he got into anything else behind ur back? plants, string etc...
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - AMPS 581, +3 518

Gosh, Lightning has been throwing up for quite a few hours now. I'm not there with you, but I would be thinking about going to the vet since he's been vomiting so much and for so long. Something isn't right with his tummy.

I hope it is something simple, but it's worth calling the vet.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - AMPS 581, +3 518

I can call the vet, they are actually about 2 minutes away so even if i had to take him in it wouldn't be too much of a hassle. It would just be a chunk out of the 'ol checkbook. Would it be ok to wait and see how to responds for the next few hours before I call in the big guns?

He was in the cat box right before he threw up this last time and it was a loose stool, not really bad, but definitely loose. It was all normal color though.

The hiding thing didn't worry me too much, he actually goes in the closet alot, but he was in a diff place this time. I turned the vacuum on a little bit ago and I knew it would scare him and he went to the "normal" place in the closet. So I'm thinking he might be ok.

There's really nothing for him to get into in the house....I don't have plants or any string stuff i can think of....all his toys seem to be intact as well. I'm sure it was just all the food I gave him, gosh, I feel like such a dope for doing that to him!
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - AMPS 581, +3 518, +4 487, +6 439

He's not moving too fast....had to again get him up to test him, but now he's at 439. Not going down as fast as I'd like but at least its progress. He's eating some of the wet food now...I think about 1/4 can was in the bowl. Hopefully he can keep it down....But is eating it going to make his number go back up?
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - AMPS 581, +3 518, +4 487, +6 439

I don't think eating would raise his BG at this point. The insulin should be working and keep him level or even lower. Looking at your SS, I tend to think that much of this high BG comes from a bounce due to the lows last night. Food probably played a part for a time, but for the most part it looks very bouncy to me. What goes up must come down though, right?

Come on down Lightning!
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - AMPS 581, +3 518, +4 487, +6 439

Low carb food may cause a small but temporary rise in numbers. It's normal and I wouldn't worry about it. You're combating the dry food he ate last night coupled with a bounce from the low numbers. I would just feed Lightning in small amounts so he doesn't barf again. The "slow moving" may be due to his not feeling particularly good as a result of the rocketing into high numbers. The big bounces tend to make people feel lousy so it's likely our kitties feel pretty much the same.

Remember to stock up on high carb FF. Gravy is your friend and it will not cause quite the same rise in numbers that you're getting. Also, a bounce can cause numbers to be elevated for up to 72 hours.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - AMPS 581, +3 518, +4 487, +6 439

I have a 19% carb can of Friskies (Chicken and Tuna with gravy) that I bought for a hypo attack....why i didn't give that instead of dry food last night I don't know....but now I guess i know not to make that mistake again. I'm done, Done, DONE with the dry food now though...guess I just needed a little kick to make me realize it sooner than later.

He's back on the bed and I'm getting him to eat small amounts of food (canned M/D still.....should I switch to the FF low carb instead?) I just don't want to add another variable into the mix when he's already in such bad shape.
 
Re: 7/19 Lightning - AMPS 581, +3 518, +4 487, +6 439

Well he's up!! Hopefully the rest did him good. He's wanting to eat now so I gave him the rest of the M/D and now he's into some of the LC FF. I don't want to overdo it on the food, so hopefully he will eat it slow and not pig out (even though I only gave him a spoonful).

Will test again in an hour and hopefully he's doing well.
 
Slowly but surely he's moving down. Just gave him so LC FF (about 1 can) and plan to give more once I know he's gonna keep it down. I'm gonna stick with the 2units tonight unless anyone thinks I should drop to 1.75u?
 
The 2 unit dose for tonight is probably what I would have done too because of this bounce and high numbers. Lightning dropped below 50 last night which calls for a dose reduction. You can do that for tomorrow's AM shot. How does that sound to you?
 
Reducing the dose tomorrow sounds good to me...I have to go into work anyways, so I'd rather give less and not worry so much! Plus I'm going with more of the LC FF tomorrow as well, so I know that will call for a dose decrease too. So I'll go down to 1.75u and see what happens. Will test again in a few hours though to see how the night shot is working.
 
I keep a stockpile of FF (although, Friskies is fine) that's HC. It doesn't matter which brand it is. What's important is that there's gravy. The gravy portion is what contains the bulk of the carbs. Helene often suggests using a Sharpie to mark the lids of HC cans with their % carb so you know what you're grabbing.

As for the M/D, it's a medium carb food -- 14% carb vs. FF which may be one third of the carbs. The other issue is the ingredients: Pork By-Products, Pork Liver, Water, Corn Starch, Powdered Cellulose, Soy Protein Isolate, Chicken Fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), Calcium Carbonate, Guar Gum, Locust Bean Gum, Calcium Sulfate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Carrageenan, Rice Flour,

Most of the prescription foods are the kitty equivalent of junk food (although they probably don't taste that good). Even FF, which is in the lower price range, does not have by-products as it's first ingredient. Basically, M/D doesn't contain any muscle meat. You could be paying for human grade content in cat food (e.g., Wellness or EVO) for what's probably less than what you're spending for M/D.

If you are going to make the switch, please test pretty aggressively. You are switching from a 14% carb food to foods that may be 3 - 5% (or less) carb. Lightning's numbers could easily drop quickly. I'm not trying to scare you -- just making sure you know to test AND that you make sure to have HC canned food in the house.
 
I don't know if I could be more scared at this point! I've basically been freaked out since the day I got the diagnosis....all this other info is actually GOOD stuff. Since clearly everything my vet told me has ended up being wrong! I'm glad I have people who actually know what they are talking about help me!

I have to go into work tomorrow so I think I'll give some of the M/D and the FF, or is it bad to mix the 2 together? I won't be around to test throughout the day like I have been...I won't be home for probably 6 hours and who knows what could happen in that time.

That's a great idea to put the carb content on the can itself. I did that with my "hypo" can and also to distinguish the ones I'm giving Thunder. So I should definitely use the same mentality for Lightning's food too.

As for the ingredients, I've been noticing the "gluten free" stuff is pretty low in carbs and I think i ended up getting a bunch of them tonight. Does it really matter if there is wheat gluten in the food or not? I read that some cats are allergic, which makes me wonder if maybe that's what Thunder could be allergic to (he keeps getting mouth ulcers and we can't figure out why). I would love to feed both cats the same thing, so if anyone has had luck with one or the other I would love to know.
 
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