7/17 Copernicus PMPS=350 +3=302 +10 372

Krista & Copernicus

Krista & Copernicus

Member Since 2026
PP

Copernicus hasn't eaten his usual food overnight or his morning meal. He ate a little bit at 2am and he was spitting up saliva just now. What do I do about his dose at 8am (in 1 1-2 hours) if he won't eat?? He has .1 ketones and had unusual soft stools on Wednesday. Thank you.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_5735.jpeg
    IMG_5735.jpeg
    1.3 MB · Views: 6
Did he get anything different to eat, new meds, or have another stress on Tuesday or Wednesday to upset his tummy?
Spitting or throwing up clear or almost clear fluid is usually caused from bile from his stomach being empty.
 
I have been trying to transition him to new low phos food but yesterday I went back to original food. He was in hospital last weekend for abnormal kidney values and electrolytes. I gave him b12 injection since he was advised to not have magnesium in oral b12. Do you give dosing advice?
 
Do you think it could be a pancreatitis flare?
Loose stools (Wednesday) and lack of appetite could indicate that.
Have stools continued to be loose since then?
Does he take ondansetron or Cerenia to help with the nausea?

Do you think he will eat so you can give insulin?
 
I tried a snack and he wasn't interested in eating, so I am asking for doing advice? I gave a cerenia but that can take up to 2 hours to work. It could be pancreatitis but vet school wouldnt test him because they said it's an unreliable test.he ate most of the time last time he had pancreatitis so this is even unusual for him if he did.
 
Krista & Copernicus said:
Do you give dosing advice?
Click to expand...
I did in the past, over a decade ago. But I don't consider myself up to speed anymore. Mostly I refrain as I work 6 days a week, and can't stay with people after I tell them to shoot. You have to be very responsible like that when giving dosing advice.

My only thoughts for you are make sure he is getting an anti-nausea med like Zofran up to every 8 hours, and are you giving him an appetite stimulant about an hour after the anti-nausea med?
Eating trumps everything, so try to think of what foods he likes or used to eat that maybe aren't quite low carb but he will eat just a bit of. Maybe top his regular food with a bit of an old favorite food or treats (crumbled freeze dried treats would be good).

I have been following you a bit.
I see more yellows recently, and hope this latest dose will help him continue to see more yellow numbers.

Come on Copernicus! :bighug: Eating vines being sent.
 
Krista & Copernicus said:
I tried a snack and he wasn't interested in eating, so I am asking for doing advice? I gave a cerenia but that can take up to 2 hours to work. It could be pancreatitis but vet school wouldnt test him because they said it's an unreliable test.he ate most of the time last time he had pancreatitis so this is even unusual for him if he did.
Click to expand...
I may be inclined to treat him “as if” he has pancreatitis even without a formal diagnosis.
Since he’s showing some signs of possibly having it with lack of appetite, loose stools.

Can you give him Zofran as well as Dyana suggested?
I would give it since you want to try to treat the nausea.

And yes, Mirtazapine can help with appetite to get him over the hump.
 
The snap test for pancreatitus only gives a possitive or negative result, so maybe that's why they say it isn't as reliable. I would ask for the blood test Spec FPL to be sent out to Idexx. If it's pancreatitus, he may need some pain killers like bupe too.

I have to get ready for work in a few minutes. I'll look in on you when I can.
 
Offer him small meals. You’ll want him to eat anything you can.
Baby food (stage 1) no onions or garlic.
Parmesan cheese as a topper can be attractive to them as it’s smelly and they like that.
Does he like Tuna Juice as a topper?
 
Krista & Copernicus said:
Thank you. Is this marked correctly for someone to give doing advice? Do I do 16 units still? Or half? Or none?
Click to expand...
I’m not sure what you mean about marked correctly?
Do you mean using the question mark in your title?
If so, I believe so.

There may not be anyone up and available at this time (early hour) to give proper dose advice.

You may have to do your best to judge if he will eat in the next few hours, even up to 1/2 of his normal food.
(Since they say cats can get 1/2 dose of insulin who are going under anesthesia even if fasted).

Since Copernicus has been dealing with ketones in the past, I don’t think it would be good to skip a dose. He definitely needs insulin.

It’s up to you how much you think would be safe to give him if you think you could get some food into him.
I wish I had a more concrete answer for you 🙏🫂
 
Last edited:
Krista, will you be able to monitor BG today?

I would NOT skip the dose. He has a history of ketones and has been riding consistently high numbers. A skip seems too risky.

Cats need insulin for reasons other than to offset food. I won’t give you dosing advice and I can’t stick around to monitor, but under these very specific circumstances, with this very specific history, if he’s my cat, and if I can get additional tests throughout the cycle, then I’m shooting a full dose, encouraging him to eat, syringe feeding if needed, and keeping the karo syrup handy just in case (though I wouldn’t expect to need it). I’d also check ketones and stay on top of giving anti-nausea meds. Again, emphasis on if my cat and if I can monitor.
 
JL and Chip said:
Krista, will you be able to monitor BG today?

I would NOT skip the dose. He has a history of ketones and has been riding consistently high numbers. A skip seems too risky.

Cats need insulin for reasons other than to offset food. I won’t give you dosing advice and I can’t stick around to monitor, but under these very specific circumstances, with this very specific history, if he’s my cat, and if I can get additional tests throughout the cycle, then I’m shooting a full dose, encouraging him to eat, syringe feeding if needed, and keeping the karo syrup handy just in case (though I wouldn’t expect to need it). I’d also check ketones and stay on top of giving anti-nausea meds. Again, emphasis on if my cat and if I can monitor.
Click to expand...
I gave him his normal dose. I ended up force feeding him a bit because the cerenia wasn't on board long enough. Thank you.
 
Staci & Ivy said:
I’m not sure what you mean about marked correctly?
Do you mean using the question mark in your title?
If so, I believe so.

There may not be anyone up and available at this time (early hour) to give proper dose advice.

You may have to do your best to judge if he will eat in the next few hours, even up to 1/2 of his normal food.
(Since they say cats can get 1/2 dose of insulin who are going under anesthesia even if fasted).

Since Copernicus has been dealing with ketones in the past, I don’t think it would be good to skip a dose. He definitely needs insulin.

It’s up to you how much you think would be safe to give him if you think you could get some food into him.
I wish I had a more concrete answer for you 🙏🫂
Click to expand...
Thank you
 
Krista & Copernicus said:
His kidney values are all elevated again and the vet thinks he's stage 3 CKD now. Sigh. I'll post his labs tomorrow for review. He did eat some dinner on his own.
Click to expand...
Good to hear that he ate something.

Random question … do you think Copernicus is fully emptying his bladder when he pees? Kidneys were Tubby’s nemesis (along with some other medical issues) and the reason I lost him. We figured out too late that even though he peed what seemed to be a reasonable amount, he wasn’t fully emptying his bladder (possible bladder neuropathy) and that was likely adversely impacting his kidneys.

That’s probably not related to Copernicus’ case whatsoever, but wanted to toss it out there as it’s not something one hears about often.
 
If Copernicus won't eat the low phos food, you can always add phosphorus binder to the food he will eat. Right now you just need him to eat.
 
He hasn't eaten in 5 hours. I've tried several options like his regular food and his low phos food. He has never gone this long. He's not due for another cerenia yet. Tonight was cabergoline night so that probably didn't help his tummy. It's 1am so I will have to get other foods tomorrow. I'm really worried. He has always eaten throughout this whole time until now. He ate even when he was in the ER in the past. He even smells different. Also every single drug and supplement has magnesium stearate and I'm not supposed to give him anything with magnesium.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Could you get ondansetron injectible? Worst case, he needs to eat and I'd give him some oral. Mirataz should be OK too.
Click to expand...
I doubt I can get that on the weekend without going through ER. Can he have oral ondansetron with cabergoline on board? What about Pepcid and/or and cabergoline? Any drug interactions. Of course the vet pharmacy not open on weekends to ask.
 
JL and Chip said:
@Krista & Copernicus
Is Copernicus eating better today? Overall status? Thinking of you…
Click to expand...
Thank you. Me boiling a chicken breast at 2am. ;) But he ate it. I'm slowly starting to add a low phos canned food underneath. I did a ground chicken topper today. He prefers the homemade food. It takes some encouragement but once he takes his first bite he continues to eat. Poor little man. He's not awake very much. He's extremely fatigued. That keeps getting worse. He seems like he's in overall pain and discomfort. The vet gave me some Gabapentin to try on Monday. Not my favorite drug but she thinks it could help his neuropathy. I think I can finally see his paws and jaw have gotten bigger.
 
JL and Chip said:
Good to hear that he ate something.

Random question … do you think Copernicus is fully emptying his bladder when he pees? Kidneys were Tubby’s nemesis (along with some other medical issues) and the reason I lost him. We figured out too late that even though he peed what seemed to be a reasonable amount, he wasn’t fully emptying his bladder (possible bladder neuropathy) and that was likely adversely impacting his kidneys.

That’s probably not related to Copernicus’ case whatsoever, but wanted to toss it out there as it’s not something one hears about often.
Click to expand...
Im sorry to hear that about Tubby. The litter box is where I can see him. If anything he has a crazy strong urine stream. He seems to finish just because it's a lot of volume. Now the one thing I don't like is he's having trouble squatting due to the hip arthritis and neuropathy. So he kind of stands up and pees and I see he has to push in a different position than he used to if that makes sense. I tried an oral b12 but it gave him soft stools. This cat is so sensitive.
 
Krista & Copernicus said:
Now the one thing I don't like is he's having trouble squatting due to the hip arthritis and neuropathy.
Click to expand...
Sadly I saw the same. I had to get a tall, huge tote and cut a hole so Tubby could walk nearly straight in to do his business. The surrounding walls were high so that he basically peed straight onto the wall (no squatting) and the urine ran down into the litter. Sometimes he wouldn’t turn around so underpads caught any accidents. He’s not the only arthritic cat I’ve had so, yeah, the things we do to adapt …

Krista & Copernicus said:
Me boiling a chicken breast at 2am. ;)
Click to expand...
Nope, I’ve never done that ;) (it was more like 3 am, lol). But seriously, whatever he’ll eat, right?

I’m not sure what’s up with the sleepiness. I’d probably want the vet to offer a possible explanation — is it the high magnesium? Is Copernicus still anemic (didn’t catch that on your last bloodwork; will have to look again)? And I’d probably want to know his blood pressure and heart rate. Cats sleep a lot normally but I don’t recall anyone talking about their cat not being able to stay awake, acro or not.

What is the gaba dose the vet recommended?
 
JL and Chip said:
Sadly I saw the same. I had to get a tall, huge tote and cut a hole so Tubby could walk nearly straight in to do his business. The surrounding walls were high so that he basically peed straight onto the wall (no squatting) and the urine ran down into the litter. Sometimes he wouldn’t turn around so underpads caught any accidents. He’s not the only arthritic cat I’ve had so, yeah, the things we do to adapt …


Nope, I’ve never done that ;) (it was more like 3 am, lol). But seriously, whatever he’ll eat, right?

I’m not sure what’s up with the sleepiness. I’d probably want the vet to offer a possible explanation — is it the high magnesium? Is Copernicus still anemic (didn’t catch that on your last bloodwork; will have to look again)? And I’d probably want to know his blood pressure and heart rate. Cats sleep a lot normally but I don’t recall anyone talking about their cat not being able to stay awake, acro or not.

What is the gaba dose the vet recommended?
Click to expand...
The fatigue is very concerning. I mention it but he has so much going on so it just gets attributed to uncontrolled BG. But it's different. I know it is. He is slightly anemic. I never heard back from the vet school about the iron shot. And the primary vet didn't think he was anemic enough for a shot. Grrr. His recent blood pressures and echo were normal. Let me find the dose of the gaba...
 
Just a small dose of Gabapentin made my kitty woozy.
I would discuss your kitty's sleepiness with the vet before prescribing the dose of gaba.
Could he take some buprenorphine instead?
 
I've discussed all of it with all his vets. I'm beyond frustrated with all of them. I've been begging for comfort care since the beginning. Stacy and the group knows I couldn't even get subq fluids when he had pancreatitis. And no pain management was prescribed then either. Finally, after like 6 vets I'm starting to get some treatments.
 
JL and Chip said:
Sadly I saw the same. I had to get a tall, huge tote and cut a hole so Tubby could walk nearly straight in to do his business. The surrounding walls were high so that he basically peed straight onto the wall (no squatting) and the urine ran down into the litter. Sometimes he wouldn’t turn around so underpads caught any accidents. He’s not the only arthritic cat I’ve had so, yeah, the things we do to adapt …


Nope, I’ve never done that ;) (it was more like 3 am, lol). But seriously, whatever he’ll eat, right?

I’m not sure what’s up with the sleepiness. I’d probably want the vet to offer a possible explanation — is it the high magnesium? Is Copernicus still anemic (didn’t catch that on your last bloodwork; will have to look again)? And I’d probably want to know his blood pressure and heart rate. Cats sleep a lot normally but I don’t recall anyone talking about their cat not being able to stay awake, acro or not.

What is the gaba dose the vet recommended?
Click to expand...
Slightly anemic still on latest labs and gaba dose is .3mL every 8-12 hours. I also can't find a liquid b12 without a lot of citric acid. And the pills would be too much magnesium. But he needs a b12!
 
Krista & Copernicus said:
Slightly anemic still on latest labs and gaba dose is .3mL every 8-12 hours. I also can't find a liquid b12 without a lot of citric acid. And the pills would be too much magnesium. But he needs a b12!
Click to expand...
Krista, hi, my cat took a very good B12 (pill), but I am in another country - so it might be all different over there. I got what you said about magnesium. I am glad he ate the chicken that day. My humble opinion and experience: gaba does help with the neuropathy... If he zonks out, just try to give him a lower dose - talk to the vet. Here, for mines, a lower dose was already helpful... Is he eating something?
Anyways - I just wanted to say hi and send you a hug. 🫂🩷
 
Last edited:
Hi! Thank you. It's good to hear what works and what to look out for. He's eating mostly home cooked chicken right now. Yeah , America loves to throw unnecessary fillers and additives into all our food and supplements. Makes it hard for sick and compromised animals and people. Hugs.
 
Krista & Copernicus said:
I've discussed all of it with all his vets. I'm beyond frustrated with all of them. I've been begging for comfort care since the beginning. Stacy and the group knows I couldn't even get subq fluids when he had pancreatitis. And no pain management was prescribed then either. Finally, after like 6 vets I'm starting to get some treatments.
Click to expand...
I’m so glad to see you’re finally getting some support for the pain management.
I’m glad you have fluids to give him at home when needed.
Are they giving you the scripts you need for ongoing supplies as needed?
Sending you both many hugs 🥰 🫂💕
 
Krista & Copernicus said:
Hi! Thank you. It's good to hear what works and what to look out for. He's eating mostly home cooked chicken right now. Yeah , America loves to throw unnecessary fillers and additives into all our food and supplements. Makes it hard for sick and compromised animals and people. Hugs.
Click to expand...
Same here... We have to go through the ingredient list patiently and carefully.
I'm so happy to hear that he's eating chicken. I'm sending Copernicus some extra love. Hugs back!
 
Staci & Ivy said:
I’m so glad to see you’re finally getting some support for the pain management.
I’m glad you have fluids to give him at home when needed.
Are they giving you the scripts you need for ongoing supplies as needed?
Sending you both many hugs 🥰 🫂💕
Click to expand...
Girl no, I have to pay full price. They keep telling me I have to get it from them. 🙄
 
I hope he continues to pick up on the eating.

Can you please remember to start a new thread every day so they don’t get too long? Thanks very much.
 
Yes, but sometimes folks ask me a question on all old thread. What would you like me to do if that is the case? Thank you.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top