7/15 Emma - her 15th bday! AMPS 260 +9.5 260 PMPS 350

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Kristen & Emma (GA)

Kristen & Emma (GA)

Member Since 2010
Hi all -

I haven't posted in the last several days as I've really been struggling with what's best for Emma in terms of dosing....if you want to read up on that, here's the last condo I posted: 7/10 condo

On Tuesday I called my aunt, who has a very close friend who is a veterinarian in Florida, and she called him to ask his opinion on how conservative we should be with Emma's dosing. He was kind enough to call me back directly, and we talked for quite a long time. He thinks my vet is being way too conservative by starting her on only 0.5 BID, and holding the dose for 2 weeks. He said he would have started her at 2 BID. He's never had a cat go hypo on that dose when first diagnosed, as long as they are eating. For his own patients, that's where he starts them, and says most experts recommend that as a starting dose. And he checks on them once a week and adjusts the dose, and he has a 92-94% remission rate in the cats he catches early. So, I'm feeling more at ease about increasing her dose more frequently. I was really struggling with outright ignoring what her doctor said, but I'm over that now and have already bumped up her dose to 1.5U BID. She got down to 125 last night, which was nice to see! We'll see how this goes, and I'm willing to bump it up again in another 5 -7 days if she's not getting down to the greens.

Thanks again for your assistance and support and patience!
 
Re: 7/15 Emma AMPS 260 her 15th birthday!

Happy birthday, Emma!!!

I'm sure you know that we usually hold the doses for 6 - 10 cycles before an increase. It does sometimes take a few days for the new dose to "settle in", to to speak. I'm not one of the experts, so I'm not about to give dosing advice, but I will tell you that a lot of us (me included) are basically handling our kitties' insulin dosing on our own with the help of FDMB, not our vets, and we've had generally very good results. One of the vets at the practice we go to finds the tiny doses (anything under 1 unit) ridiculous. Luckily, the main vet I've been using for Kasha since she was diagnosed has been very open to me going off on my own, knowing that I'm testing and monitoring and generally keeping better records than she's ever seen! It's not the protocol that she's familiar with, but at least she's been open to it.

I often wonder about the cats who go OTJ following some of the conventional techniques - I really wish I could see statistics for using those techniques, achieving remission and, more importantly, maintaining remission. I personally know at least one person who followed veterinary guidelines and achieved remission for her kitty - but they didn't maintain remission and have been back on insulin for years now. This protocol makes sense to me - tapering off the insulin to tiny doses to give a healing pancreas the most support possible.

Ok - those are just some thoughts I had this morning. I'm tremendously sleep-deprived, so I apologize if I'm off on a tangent or not making any sense!

I hope your Emma enjoys a wonderful 15th birthday and that she does well with her new dose!
 
Re: 7/15 Emma AMPS 260 her 15th birthday!

Happy BIrthday EMMA!

Looks like the 1.5u is good dose to work from for Emma.
 
Re: 7/15 Emma AMPS 260 her 15th birthday!

Actually, neither vet is correct. The current research (this is based on the Rand Protocol from University of Queensland) bases starting dose on a cat's ideal weight (initial dose = ideal weight in kilograms x 0.25). In general, this works out in the general vicinity of 1.0u. You'll also see that doses are not held for 2 weeks. In addition, I would say we've seen cats go low on 2.0u. They will rarely hypo because members here test and learn how to manage low numbers numbers effectively with food.

Cat-make-a-wish.jpg

Happy Birthday Emma!!!
 
Re: 7/15 Emma AMPS 260 her 15th birthday!

HAPPY 15TH BIRTHDAY EMMA--Many Many more!!
I have to say to you being here for 2 yrs & 5 mths...Vets dont know what we do , as HANDS ON experience here counts for us--
We are aware of the latest info on FD, we are working everyday with cats with this disease, and we have vets & vet techs on here who offer their educated feedback--A vet gets maybe 10 FD cats in 5 yrs..They are not usually up to date on lantus treatment, nor are they dealing with it every day as we are.
If a cat is going to go into remission, our protocol offers an easy & sensible way to get there--I have seen cats on lantus for 2 yrs, go into remission, BUT many cats do NOT!!--Our goal here is to Get Our cats Healthy!!
If a cat goes into remission, we are all happy for them..But like us, some do not!

BUT Our cats get to live the most out of their lives with attention, love & understanding their disease-
If your cat got down to 125, maybe you should wait & see as you are shooting 1.50 which is a substantial dose-
Let this dose stay for at least 5-7 days, without raising the dose, or your cat can go too low..We also have dosing helpers who are experienced with assisting with dosing.
Good luck with Emma & Happy Birthday!
 
Re: 7/15 Emma AMPS 260 her 15th birthday!

Happy Birthday Emma :mrgreen:
My civvie Mina turned 15 yesterday.

"Tiny doses" are definitely not ridiculous. Sure, maybe 1 drop wouldn't do anything for a human, but for cats....? I can say from experience that 1 drop can work magic.
 
Re: 7/15 Emma - her 15th bday! AMPS 260, +9.5 260

Hi all -

Thanks for all your input. And Emma says thanks for all the birthday wishes. She has enjoyed a whole bowlful of FF Savory Salmon today...one of her faves. Usually I just add a tablespoon of it to other foods that she doesn't seem to like to get her to eat them, but today she got a whole can. She's a happy camper. :smile:

I guess as someone who doesn't work in the medical or veterinary world, the word protocol means something different to me. We have protocols in my field, but they're just our way of doing things. Not the only way, or even the best way. Just our way. And they only take us so far; every situation needs further investigation and analysis, even in areas we've researched to death. So, in thinking about this protocol, it seemed to me that it was just Dr. Rand's way of doing things, and that there are other, possibly even better, ways to go. And the idea of disregarding the doctor's orders has been a hard one for me to swallow. I love this vet hospital. They saved Emma's life when she was sick back in 07. The doctor she had then (who has unfortunately moved across the country) was amazing. She literally came to my house with the vet tech/petsitter nearly every day for almost 2 weeks when I had to be out of town. For NO charge. She wanted to make sure Emma was ok and got her fluids and meds. She would call me on her off days, even Thanksgiving, and after work hours to check in. I truly believe she was an angel sent to help us. And the vet techs and nurses were great too. I will never forget their kindness to us. The doctor we have now has been very flexible and easy going with everything I've wanted to try. So, to have her be so adamant on this one issue threw a wrench into my thinking. But, even if the doctor I spoke with on Tuesday was wrong in his dosing advice, it was enough to put me over the edge and move away from what she wants to do.

Sorry for the long-winded response - it's just been a tough decision for me to reach! Of course I want the best for Emma, and she's already been through so much I don't want her to feel bad anymore!

The birthday girl is currently napping in her favorite spot - under the piano - with her two favorite toys. She's had lots of birthday kisses from her drooler sister Dory, who absolutely adores her and gets very excited to see her when I get home from work. And her other drooler sister Charlotte is worn out from guarding her all day, keeping her safe and making sure she doesn't try to escape (she's a crazy herder). I tried to take a cute bday pic of her, but she kept sticking her face in my camera, so this is what I got:
Crazy Birthday Cat

Thanks again everyone, and have a great evening!
 
How adorable - love the photo! Had to wait till I got home from work to view it, but it was worth it!
 
oh my goodness - that is hilarious Ronnie! But the sad thing is, that is exactly how she is when we go to the vet. If only the kitty's coloring was different, I would have thought someone caught a picture of her at her last visit!

We didn't have any cake, but she had her favorite FF flavor, AND I gave her 2 pieces of EVO dry kibble for a treat after I got home. She was very happy. :mrgreen:
 
happy birthday, Emma!

Regardless of how you got to this dose, it looks reasonable for Emma right now. Most likely she will need more, but I would hold this dose for at least 10 cycles (5 days) to see how things shake out.
 
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