7/11 New Member Seeking Advice - Tiki's Mom

Hello everyone, so glad to have found this site! I've already learned so much, but am in need of some advice. My 14 year old, 14.5lb cat Tiki was diagnosed with diabetes 10 days ago. I had just brought her in for a routine annual exam, but the vet ran some tests and found that her glucose levels were high (upper 400s). We immediately put her on 1 unit of Vetsulin twice a day, and switched her to Purina DM wet food . They also gave me Royal Canin Glycobalance dry food but I only give her a tiny bit as a treat between meals, maybe 1/4 cup daily if that. (Prior to starting treatment, she was on a 100% dry food only diet - which I didn't realize was so bad until now). The transition went well at first, although I noticed she was a bit lethargic and started urinating a lot more frequently after we started treatment. Then she started having diarrhea about 3 days ago (still has it). She still has her appetite and is eating all her meals, but she also vomited a lot throughout the night last night (both food and white foam). She also stopped sleeping in the bed with me for the past 2 days (which she normally gets very excited about bedtime and loves to cuddle). I have left a couple of messages for the vet, but have not gotten a call back and I am worried that the combination of extreme change in diet plus the insulin were too drastic and may be causing more harm than good. Since I have not been able to get ahold of the vet, I took it upon myself not to give her insulin last night or this morning. I am very scared of messing with her treatment and doing the wrong thing, but I didn't know what else to do. I do not think i know better than a trained professional, and I am willing to do whatever it takes to get her healthy again but something just does not seem right. My baby seemed like her happy normal self 2 weeks ago, and since starting this treatment she has digestive issues and very low energy. Any advice would be greatly appreciated! BTW - I have not done any home testing yet as the vet did not give me any information on this and I just learned about it from this site. Tiki is scheduled to go back to the vet this Thursday for her glucose curve.

 

Welcome to the best site you never wanted to join. You're in the right place. There's a lot of very experienced members on the FDMB to help guide you through this Feline diabetes journey. I'm sure someone will be around shortly to get you started with the basics. Home testing is a key component to managing FD(feline diabetes). Here's a link with some info regarding home testing for you to look over. https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/hometesting-links-and-tips.287/
Again welcome. Take your time and don't get overwhelmed. You can easily get information overload. Take it step by step. More importantly, you've got this!
Look forward to seeing Tiki's progress.

Have a great day Laura.

 

THANK YOU Briere!

Hello Laura! WELCOME TO THE PLACE TO GET ANSWERS!
I'm wondering why a vet makes the determination that your kitty (name please?) has diabetes from one test. Cats normally get VERY stressed at the vets and that raises blood glucose! 400 is not out of the realm of that possibility. However you've already done the best thing you can do by removing (mostly) that dry junk. The only thing special about prescription dry food is the PRICE. Same goes for the canned "diabetic" food they sell.
Going with the theory that your cat does have diabetes... A quick change of diet can absolutely cause diarrhea. Thats not to say she doesnt have diabetes or something else going on, it just happens. (If I was use to eating cereal for every meal and then a steak is placed in front of me, I think I would get diarrhea too)

Theres a wealth of information here and people to help you decipher it. Please hold on for more replies! Greater minds than mine will help.
Again welcome to the best darn site on this planet to help you navigate this disease
jeanne

 

Welcome and I’m glad you found us!

In addition the the change in food possibly causing the diarrhea, it can also drastically bring the BG numbers down. Home testing is key when you’re switching food. Most vets don’t tell you about it and most actually discourage you, but it’s the only way to feel in control of your cat’s health. The added bonus is you can do the curves at home where your cat is more relaxed and the numbers will be more accurate and stress free. I also have mixed feelings about Vetsulin since it was designed for dogs not cats, also called caninsulin for canines. It tends not to work as well for cats who have higher metabolisms. Anyway, it hits hard and fast so you have to make sure she ate at least 30 minutes before giving the shot.

if you’re up to home testing, we have lots of tips to guide and help you through it. Most of us use human meters which work great. No need to buy an expensive pet meter with super expensive test strips. You can go to Walmart and get their ReliOn Prime, lancets, strips and it will cost you about $40 as opposed to $200 for a vet curve. I have ReliOn and I love it. It’s very easy and simple to use. while we’re on the food subject, you want foods that have less than 10% carbs and most vet prescription ones have more. There’s really nothing special about those foods other than they’re marketed to make you think there is and they cost more. Most of us here feed fancy feats pate which is good and has less than 10% carbs. You do want to stay away from dry food as a rule of thumb.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that with the change in food, it’s possible Tiki doesn’t need 1 unit at this point, but you won’t know unless you test. And if she does need insulin, withholding it is also not great. How do you feel about going to Walmart and getting set up for testing?

lastly, your vet not calling you back to me is a big red flag that you may want to consider changing vets. I’d be horrified if I couldn’t get a hold of Minnie’s vet. It’s not good practice to not call your patients back. If or when they do call back, ask about metronidazole for the diarrhea. You may also want to get her on probiotics. It helps with everything. Can you try some pumpkin for now?

 

AGREE

 

One more thing about food. Not sure what your vet said, but vets used to treating dogs will tell you to feed your cat only twice a day at shot times. That is NOT necessary or even good for cats who are grazers. It’s easier on their pancreas to have smaller meals throughout the day. Also cats who still have unregulated diabetes can’t process the nutrients in the food well so they’re hungry even when they’re eating the same amount of food as before. That’s why most lose weight a first. Not to mention that there’s sugar in their urine so they’re using up calories simply by peeing We advise to feed the bulk of the meals around shot times and the smaller meals or snacks throughout the day

 

Thank you all for the helpful advice! Tiki is doing much better last night and today. No more vomit/diarrhea, and she has her normal energy level back. I reintroduced a little bit of dry food back into her diet but i do plan to reduce it little by little until she's off completely. I think the complete change from dry to wet just really messed with her system. I also went to Walmart to get the Relion meter, lancets, and test strips that were recommended. Practiced successfully on myself, and have tried a few pokes on Tiki's ear but so far I have not been able to get any blood from her. Hopefully she will be patient with me while I keep at it. I will have to try some of the other techniques for warming her ear. I am really hoping that her in office test results were exaggerated due to stress and that the change in diet will be enough to get her glucose back to healthy levels. As far as the vet, I am trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. I have an out-of-state area code that is one digit off from the local code here, so people often assume it's a typo and call the wrong number. I'm really hoping that is the case as I have been taking my cats here for years and have been otherwise very happy with them. Going to try calling again in the morning when they open. Thank you again for all of the helpful tips and advice and I will keep you posted on Tiki's progress.

 

Oh, btw do you know of any other low carb wet food options? Tiki does not seem to be a big fan of Pate. She did like some other fancy feast wet food that was minced/stew but I'm having trouble finding information about the amount of carbs. Is it just the chicken pate I should be feeding her or do you recommend any other options?

 

Happy to hear she’s doing much better!

warming up the ear with a sock filled with rice is key for me, but also know that the ear will “learn” to bleed as more capilares grow so sometimes it does take a bit of time for all of it to come together. Always give a treat after even with a failed attempt so she has a positivos association to go with the nuisance.

there’s a list of foods and their carb content here somewhere. I’ll try to find it for you.

 

Here you go!

https://catinfo.org/docs/CatFoodProteinFatCarbPhosphorusChart.pdf

 

This is great, looks like we have several options. Thank you for sharing!

 

Hi Laura my cat did not like pate either I fed her Weruva paw lickin chicken it actually looks like shredded chicken also Tiki Cat wet food they are more costly than Fancy Feast but I had to get her to eat something lol I went through so many different cans of food to try to find something she liked but most were pate which she turned her nose up at I had to laugh
Both of those brands are human grade and never recalled . Wondering if you mixed a little chicken to her pate if that would help ?

 

Hi Laura! I'm wondering if you'd be up to starting a spreadsheet and signature? They would REALLY help our experts help you.
You will get faster and more complete answers with this added info.
You can find it here:
Suggestions, Tech Support & Testing Area

Honestly you'll be glad you did.
jeanne

 

Ok, so I've got some updates... the vet asked me to bring Tiki in this morning since she hasn't been feeling well and I stopped giving her insulin. She is there now... they said she has pain in her abdomen so they are going to run a feline pancreatitis test now to see if there is something else going on. They also said her blood glocose level has gone up to 536 so I need to get her back on insulin right away. It's so hard figuring out the right thing to do when she seems so much better to me when she is off the insulin, but I will do what the vet says, I do not want to take any risks with this. I only want to do what's right for her health and comfort. It's just so frustrating and confusing that she seemed fine before going to the vet but now has all these issues, it just makes me 2nd guess everything. @jt and trouble (GA) I will check out the spreadsheet and try to get started on that. Thanks again for the suggestion.

 

I know the feeling, but sometimes they have to feel worse before they feel better. Diabetes is not life threatening unless it’s not managed. I agree with your vet Tiki needs to get back on insulin, especially since it can take months sometimes to get to the right dose. Diabetes is manageable and it’s not a sprint, it’s a marathon. Also, the insulin does not interfere with anything else that may be going on or any other meds she may need. Anything pancreas related she may have would also benefit from insulin so her pancreas doesn’t have to work so hard and it could actually be the reason she became diabetic.

setting up your signature is super helpful because we are on so many threads every day that all the info about each cat gets confusing. Right now for instance, I had to scroll up all the way to your first post to remind myself of all the details about Tiki’s condition. It’s even more important when you start a new thread and all that info is not there

I’m happy they’re running more tests and the pancreatitis one is important. So a few things, regardless of what they find make sure to ask for an anti nausea med like Cerenia or ondansetron so you have that at home to give her if she doesn’t want to eat. Diabetic cats have to eat, especially with a fast acting insulin like Vetsulin Tiki should eat at least 30 minutes before her shots. I’d also ask your vet about other insulin options. I think I mentioned that Vetsulin was made for dogs, also called caninsulin for canines, and it’s not always the best one for cats who have higher metabolisms.

I’d also suggest getting a meter so you can test at home. Your vet may not agree, but here we won’t be able to help you much if we don’t have test data to review and it’s really key to get her diabetes regulated. I have Walmart’s ReliOn and you can got to a Walmart and get is all, meter, lancets and strips. It will cost you less than $40

did he/she say anything about the diarrhea? Also ask for metronidazole since it does help get it under control and consider adding a probiotic to her diet. Anything like pancreatitis or IBD can always benefit from probiotics.

lastly, I’m not a fan of the food your vet prescribed but let’s see what the tests reveal. I’d consider switching over to something with more protein and less carbs like weruva, tiki, or even FF pate

Let us know if you have any questions we didn’t address and keep us posted! Once you set up the spreadsheet, there’s a tab for lad results and you can add the info you get from your vet.

 

Hi Laura Let us know if you have trouble setting up the spreadsheet. We even have experts here for that!
Just let us know and we can tag one for you!

 

Thank you! It's been a hectic few days, and I am just learning about the spreadsheet and signature now but I will definitely update both ASAP. I just picked Tiki up from the vet. She does not have pancreatitis, so I'm relieved about that at least! I will be putting her back on the Vetsulin starting tonight. The vet said 1 unit is a very low dose, and should not cause any harm. She still says I can give it to her during meals, but based on what I've been reading on this site I will wait until 30 minutes after each meal. Our usual vet is on vacation, but when she gets back I will ask her why she recommends vetsulin vs alternatives. They gave her some fluids and Synacore probiotics to help with the nausea which she also believes was caused by the change in diet. I am going to keep a little bit of dry food in her diet until the nausea goes away and then work on removing it from her diet altogether. I did pick up the ReliOn meter over the weekend and have been trying, but unable to get any blood so far. I think I may need to warm up the ear a bit longer, and possibly get a thicker lancet. I started off with the ultra thin hoping it wouldn't hurt as much.

 

What size is the lancet 28? The lower the number the larger a prick it makes and so it’s easier to draw blood. The ears will learn to bleed as more capilares grow in a few weeks.

If the nausea continues, please do ask about the 2 medications I mentioned as they could call in a prescription for you.

great need about the pancreatitis!!!

 

currently using 30 guage - i have an unopened box i will see if i can exchange for a lower number, thanks for the tip!

 

28 or even 26 are better till you get the hang of it. And yes make sure the ear is warm to the touch. It’s the difference between getting a super tiny dot and getting a huge droplet

 

glad to hear this diagnoses! yaaay

 

Thank you to everyone for offering your support, encouragement, and knowledge while I was so worried about Tiki. She just completed her follow-up appointment with the vet and I am so excited to say that she is already in remission! I can't stop smiling