7/10 SHEBA AMPS 214 trialling new pain meds. +4.75 162; +5.5 117; +6.5 79; +7.5 67

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Bron and Sheba (GA)

Bron and Sheba (GA)

Member Since 2015
Last condohttp://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...311-3-5-218-4-5-153-5-5-77-7-92-8-115.140327/

I haven't posted for about a week. It is school holidays here so quite hectic.

AMPS 214

Sheba is well and eating very well.
I started the SEB powder a few days ago and I have to say I can see a difference already......I am sure it is not me being fanciful! I made a slurry of it (thanks Marje). Giving it twice a day...she has it in a bit of chicken broth. Her appetite improved after one day on it.......she was already eating but she started to come to me to ask for food and is gobbling it down. Haven't seen her like this for quite a long time.

Sheba's numbers have not been great since her pancreatitis episode. I don't know if it is from that or the fact she has not restarted her pain meds for arthritis (metacam)...... I know you don't like it.
Her numbers are always affected by pain.

I am talking to the vet via email at the moment...Sheba had a course of cartrophen a few months back and a booster recently and we are going to see if it has made a difference to her arthritis/pain levels. @Wendy&Neko how often do you give the boosters of cartrophen to Neko? We are doing it 3 monthly but I am hoping he will give it more frequently.

I am also going to trial tramadol for pain........temgesic (bupe) is just too expensive here. When she was sick with pancreatitis I was given 7 doses of the liquid Temgesic in syringes ready to go....minimum dose.......and it cost over 30 dollars. I rang the vets yesterday and tramadol seems to be a bit cheaper.
Anyway we will see how it goes.....

I am expecting her numbers to go up as they always do when she is not pain free....hopefully I can get her pain free again soon. It is hard to tell......the only way I know is by her blood sugars going up and when her mobility gets bad.
In the meantime until the pain is under control, I am going to have to increase the insulin....I increased it 6 cycles ago and looks like she will need another one.

Any comments, advice, suggestions always welcome thanks.

OT......last weekend my son and family went down to Melbourne (300 miles south in the next state) for DIL parents birthday party. They stayed at the hotel where the function was held....a big city hotel...quite upmarket. At 4am there was loud knocking on the door .......'open up this is hotel security here'.........police everywhere......there had been a murder 2 rooms up the corridor......man with his throat slit! They were interviewed for half hour at 4am...had they heard anything......what time did they come to the room etc. freaked out the kids as you can imagine.
 
I'm glad the SEB is helping Sheba. I hope the new pain meds help her. How awful on the murder at the hotel. I can see how that would freak you out.
 
Adequan is the US counterpart to Cartrophen, I believe. I'm not sure what you mean by "3 monthly." We gave Adequan starting every other day, then progressively had longer intervals to once a week, then once a month. Then we stayed with once a month as a maintenance dose.

One heads-up on the tramadol - I tried it with punkin and he clearly had hallucinations with it. We only gave it to him the one time - that was enough. But I do know others have used it successfully.

We didn't have much luck with gabapentin either - I couldn't tell any difference, but maybe we didn't stick with it long enough. I'm not sure what to suggest because we used Buprinorphin. Did you have the kind you can give orally? I wonder if you can find another source for it that is cheaper.

People here are concerned about metacam because a former FDMB Carolyn had her cat, Latte, die from kidney failure from it. So it's seared into our collective memory. I haven't seen Carolyn in a long time but she used to regularly post about it. This is the US Food and Drug Administration's notice about Metacam.
 
Noodle loves her hairball supplement that contains SEB. I often end up crumbling it up on her food so to get her to eat! I hope you can find a pain management strategy that works for Sheba. :bighug:
 
Elise, Carla and Billysmom.....thanks for the good wishes.
I probably won't get the tramodol til next week as they have to order it in. Billysmom, we don't have adequan here I don't think. When I asked about it, I was offered the cartrophen, which I noticed made a difference after about 5 or 6 weeks. Not sure how it will go long term...hoping it will be good.
 
Patricia & Noodle said:
Noodle loves her hairball supplement that contains SEB. I often end up crumbling it up on her food so to get her to eat! I hope you can find a pain management strategy that works for Sheba. :bighug:
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@Patricia & Noodle
Didn't realise you could put the SEB straight onto the food......I have been making a slurry and putting it into some chicken stock at 3pm and 3am (autofeeder) to keep it away from medications. How much do you sprinkle onto the food?
 
Both Neko and now my civie Theo are on Cartrophen monthly.

I know you say bupe (tamgesic) is too expensive, but do you have any compounding pharmacies nearby? Getting prefilled syringes of bupe is pretty expensive for me too, but I get a vial of bupe compounded, enough for two syringes a day for 3 months, for $95. Good luck with finding something to manage the pain. Scritches to Sheba from me.
 
I was wondering the same as @Wendy&Neko about why you can't get bupe, especially in a compouned form? Glad to hear the SEB is working for Sheba though, good luck with the other meds and sorry to hear she's in so much pain. Pancreatitis sucks(excuse my crude language, but it really is the "gift" that keeps on taking...:() That is horrid about your son and DIL- how absolutely gruesome!:eek:
 
julie & punkin (ga) said:
Adequan is the US counterpart to Cartrophen, I believe. I'm not sure what you mean by "3 monthly." We gave Adequan starting every other day, then progressively had longer intervals to once a week, then once a month. Then we stayed with once a month as a maintenance dose.

One heads-up on the tramadol - I tried it with punkin and he clearly had hallucinations with it. We only gave it to him the one time - that was enough. But I do know others have used it successfully.

We didn't have much luck with gabapentin either - I couldn't tell any difference, but maybe we didn't stick with it long enough. I'm not sure what to suggest because we used Buprinorphin. Did you have the kind you can give orally? I wonder if you can find another source for it that is cheaper.

People here are concerned about metacam because a former FDMB Carolyn had her cat, Latte, die from kidney failure from it. So it's seared into our collective memory. I haven't seen Carolyn in a long time but she used to regularly post about it. This is the US Food and Drug Administration's notice about Metacam.
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@julie & punkin (ga)
The cartrophen is given as a course of 4 injections given a week apart. Then it can be given at 3, 6, or 12 monthly as a booster.

Thanks for telling me about the tramodol.....I will try it and watch closely for any side effects.

With the temgesic (bupe) we have the sublingual tablets, which are really hard to give as the cat spits them out. When Sheba had pancreatitis they gave her an injection then I was given some oral liquid (which is the injectable stuff) in individual syringes. It was very expensive. If Sheba has much of it she is like a zombie so I am not too keen to go down that path. I could be wrong....but I think it is very expensive everywhere here. Maybe another Aussie can tell me different...I would be delighted if they did!

I am very aware of the concerns about metacam. We have a cat specific one out here which is much weaker than the one available in the US which is for dogs and it is used a lot. I think most of the cases of kidney failure are with the injection and when it is given pre or post op when the blood pressure could be low and this is when things can happen.
Sheba has been on metacam for over a year. I have always been very aware of its problems and am always very careful to make sure she is hydrated. But when she started it she was in a really bad way and there were not many choices for her. I thought I was going to lose her and the difference metacam made was nothing short of miraculous. Fast forward to now and she has had some vomiting lately and the vet and I have decided to give her a break from the metacam, in case that is what is causing the issue. Certainly since starting the SEB her appetite has been better. She is in a much better place than she was a year ago, but now we have to find something to replace the metacam.
I really appreciate your concern and any advice, help or ideas are very much appreciated
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Both Neko and now my civie Theo are on Cartrophen monthly.

I know you say bupe (tamgesic) is too expensive, but do you have any compounding pharmacies nearby? Getting prefilled syringes of bupe is pretty expensive for me too, but I get a vial of bupe compounded, enough for two syringes a day for 3 months, for $95. Good luck with finding something to manage the pain. Scritches to Sheba from me.
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@Wendy&Neko
Thanks for the info on the cartrophen injection times....I hope my vet will go to monthly. Sheba was only the second cat he had given it to.
I will check out the compounding pharmacies thanks. I didn't know we had one locally but my vet did mention it last time I was there...I can't remember what medication he was talking about though. Your price is fairly reasonable and it is good to have a figure to compare mine to. Thanks
 
Bron and Sheba said:
@Patricia & Noodle
Didn't realise you could put the SEB straight onto the food......I have been making a slurry and putting it into some chicken stock at 3pm and 3am (autofeeder) to keep it away from medications. How much do you sprinkle onto the food?
Click to expand...
I use these supplements: http://www.amazon.com/Best-Hairball...blets/dp/B0002I9O84?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20 and give 2 daily broken into treats or crumbled on her food. It's supposed to help hair ball digestion and is basically the only thing I can get her to take daily--oils are a toss up and she HATES the petroleum based treatments. It's not just SEB, so I don't know if it would work for Sheba, but it looks like 2 tablets have 50mg SEB. She also doesn't get other medications regularly (only cerenia and cypro as needed), so I don't worry much about absorption issues. Sorry if this is no help!
 
Tiger and Ruth said:
I was wondering the same as @Wendy&Neko about why you can't get bupe, especially in a compouned form? Glad to hear the SEB is working for Sheba though, good luck with the other meds and sorry to hear she's in so much pain. Pancreatitis sucks(excuse my crude language, but it really is the "gift" that keeps on taking...:() That is horrid about your son and DIL- how absolutely gruesome!:eek:
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@Tiger and Ruth
Am going to check out the compounding pharmacies for the bupe. will post when I find out. Have 7 grandkids here at the moment, so I am typing on the run in between making lunches, playing cards with the girls and generally racing around. So please excuse any ramblings etc
Yes the murder thing was pretty terrible....It is funny how kids cope with things like that. After they came home and the kids were here, I heard the three oldest ones (aged 9,10,11) playing a game......"lets pretend we are staying at a hotel and there is a murder in one of the other rooms"........I heard as they drifted upstairs!
 
Patricia & Noodle said:
I use these supplements: http://www.amazon.com/Best-Hairball...blets/dp/B0002I9O84?tag=felinediabetesfdmb-20 and give 2 daily broken into treats or crumbled on her food. It's supposed to help hair ball digestion and is basically the only thing I can get her to take daily--oils are a toss up and she HATES the petroleum based treatments. It's not just SEB, so I don't know if it would work for Sheba, but it looks like 2 tablets have 50mg SEB. She also doesn't get other medications regularly (only cerenia and cypro as needed), so I don't worry much about absorption issues. Sorry if this is no help!
Click to expand...
Thanks Patricia.....I will look it up. Always looking for new ideas.:)
 
@julie & punkin (ga)
Julie, I have just read my post to you this morning and realised it sounds very abrupt.....I am really sorry, it was not meant to at all.
I didn't reread it when I wrote it....I had kids talking in my ears all the time and kept getting interruptions with them wanting me to do this or that. I was trying to keep my train of thought together and remember what I was wanting to say.
So I am very sorry. I wouldn't want to offend you for the world. You have been wonderful helping me with Sheba.
Bron
 
No worries - I am just now reading it and it's fine. I'm completely unoffended. ;):)

I know that around the world metacam is used for cats and people don't seem to have the problems we have seen here. I took punkin to an accupuncture vet for a while and that vet gave it to his own cat. He told me the issue is the size of the dose and that our cats are given too much. I considered it for punkin because there are other acro-cats that at least used to use it, but because his kidneys were compromised I never did try it.
 
@julie & punkin (ga)
Thanks Julie......:bighug:
It is a real shame they can't get metacam to a point where it is completely safe for cats as it is such an amazing drug.
There is so little around for cats with pain really.

I have just had an email back from my vet and we are going to give the tramadol a trial. And he said he will give monthly cartrophen injections so that is really good.
I also rang a couple of compounding pharmacies......one was completely unhelpful and the other one is going to ring me back with a price of compounding bupe.

+6.5 79
She must have heard the dosecrease threat.
 
hope you find a cheap source.... i pay $38 plus low shipping for bupe... 10 mL.
the vet was charging me outrageously for pre-loaded syringes too....

i think I'll re-start the SEB. I've been meaning to and you've convinced me now.....
 
Hello Bron, sounds like the grandchildren are keeping you busy. Glad to hear Sheba's appetite has improved with the SEB, that's one less thing for you to worry about. Hope you get a good price for the tramadol and it proves successful for Sheba's pain, hugs and scritches to her :bighug:. Looking good at the moment Sheba :D surf safely.

What a terrible experience for your son and family, just a bit too much excitement they could have done without.
 
rhiannon and shadow said:
hope you find a cheap source.... i pay $38 plus low shipping for bupe... 10 mL.
the vet was charging me outrageously for pre-loaded syringes too....

i think I'll re-start the SEB. I've been meaning to and you've convinced me now.....
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Hi Rhiannon
Wow....38 dollars for 10 mls is great. Wish I could be so lucky but I doubt it.
Yes the SEB is really making a difference.......I would have said her appetite was back to normal but after a few days of the SEB I can see a definite improvement.
Hope you get the same reaction to the SEB with Shadow
 
suki & crystal said:
Hello Bron, sounds like the grandchildren are keeping you busy. Glad to hear Sheba's appetite has improved with the SEB, that's one less thing for you to worry about. Hope you get a good price for the tramadol and it proves successful for Sheba's pain, hugs and scritches to her :bighug:. Looking good at the moment Sheba :D surf safely.

What a terrible experience for your son and family, just a bit too much excitement they could have done without.
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Hi Suki
Haven't collected the tramadol yet to check the price. Will be interesting to see how much.
It is really hard to judge the pain she is in. I never guessed she was in pain a year ago, but the difference to her BSL and her mobility after she started pain meds was quite something. They are so good at hiding pain.

DH has the kids in the garage, aka the gym / disco at the moment. He always has '50s music blasting up through the floorboards. This place always sounds like a nightclub or a pub.:joyful:

Yes the stay at the hotel was not much fun. No fun for the poor guy who had his throat slit either! I am just glad the murderer knew which room to go to. DIL had stayed longer at the party (son had brought kids to bed earlier) so she had walked up to the room on her own quite late at night. One would not think about safety inside a hotel.
 
Hi Bron.

Wow, that story about your DS and DDIL is pretty sobering. I'm glad they are okay and didn't see or hear anything traumatizing.

I just started giving Cinco Tramadol for what we suspect is arthritis today. He had it for post surgical pain in the past, and I don't recall anything that would indicate he was having hallucinations. Of course, ECID, and drugs affect each person, or animal, differently.

Dosecrease threats are very powerful. Glad that Sheba took heed. :p:D

Now, Sheba, that's far enough. Turn around and head back toward shore, please. - Cinco, Deputy LagoonMeister
 
Sheba!! It's time for you to head over to the lagoon campground now! We're about ready to start making the S'Mores and there's lots of logs to sit on around the fire to sign our campfire songs before we eventually head back to our tents in the wee hours of the morning

Hope you'll come too
 
Tricia & Cinco said:
Hi Bron.

Wow, that story about your DS and DDIL is pretty sobering. I'm glad they are okay and didn't see or hear anything traumatizing.

I just started giving Cinco Tramadol for what we suspect is arthritis today. He had it for post surgical pain in the past, and I don't recall anything that would indicate he was having hallucinations. Of course, ECID, and drugs affect each person, or animal, differently.

Dosecrease threats are very powerful. Glad that Sheba took heed. :p:D

Now, Sheba, that's far enough. Turn around and head back toward shore, please. - Cinco, Deputy LagoonMeister
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@Tricia & Cinco
Will be very interested how Cinco goes on the tramadol. What dose is he on?
Sheba is heading for shore now Cinco DLM
 
Good job, Sheba. Way to listen to the DLM!

Bron, the vet prescribed 1/8 to 1/4 tablet, every 12 hours. I'm starting with 1/8. They are 50 mg tablets (!), so that's 6.25 mg twice a day. I believe that, after his eye removal, the Ophthalmologist prescribed 1/4 table twice a day.
 
@Tricia & Cinco
I haven't picked up the tramadol yet but the vet said in the email they were 20 mg tablets and to give Sheba 10 mgms. I might try half that to start with just in case she has a reaction to it.
Good luck with the dose for Cinco
 
Interesting that you can get a smaller dose tablet. I sure wouldn't mind it if I didn't have to split them into 18ths!

Good luck to you, too. I'll be interested to hear how Sheba does on it.
 
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