dodgingwrenches
Member Since 2010
I guess I'm not giving him a shot this morning?
7/10 Heart AMPS 122 (NS), +9 473, PMPS 425 (3.5u) +2 358
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Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 - wow! No shot?
I wouldn't skip the shot. If you don't feel comfortable shooting this low (it's not that low), stall. Don't feed. Wait 15 - 30 min. and re-test. If the numbers are heading up, shoot!
Or, you can give a reduced dose -- a BCS (big chicken sh*t) dose.
It's best to not deplete the shed by skipping unless there are extenuating circumstances.
I wouldn't skip the shot. If you don't feel comfortable shooting this low (it's not that low), stall. Don't feed. Wait 15 - 30 min. and re-test. If the numbers are heading up, shoot!
Or, you can give a reduced dose -- a BCS (big chicken sh*t) dose.
It's best to not deplete the shed by skipping unless there are extenuating circumstances.
Sonia & Tom (GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 - wow! No shot?
Can't give advice but nice ps!
Can't give advice but nice ps!
Ronnie & Luna
Member Since 2009
Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 - wow! No shot?
Hey pretty nice. What did you decide to do?
Hey pretty nice. What did you decide to do?
Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)
Member Since 2010
Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 - wow! No shot?
Great AMPS for Heart. I suggest that you follow Sienne's advice. She knows about such things!!
Ella
Great AMPS for Heart. I suggest that you follow Sienne's advice. She knows about such things!!
Ella
dodgingwrenches
Member Since 2010
Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 - wow! No shot?
I had to leave right after for the day, so I didn't shoot at all following the advice in that stickied thread (no shot <150). He's on such a high dose (3.5 units) that I didn't want to risk it...
I had to leave right after for the day, so I didn't shoot at all following the advice in that stickied thread (no shot <150). He's on such a high dose (3.5 units) that I didn't want to risk it...
dodgingwrenches
Member Since 2010
Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 - wow! No shot?
Okay so at what would be +8, he's at the red/black border. So what's the use of this shed if it's not keeping his BG down right now?
Okay so at what would be +8, he's at the red/black border. So what's the use of this shed if it's not keeping his BG down right now?
Helene & Tizon
Member Since 2009
Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 - wow! No shot?
A couple of things I will take to liberty to comment on.... kick me if you wish... I mean to be nice and constructive.... and in addition to what Sienne posted.
- Yes, the sticky says not to shoot under 150; however..... the sticky on becoming data ready said that you can shoot <150;
- there are about .... 50+ SS posted daily in this forum where people shoot (not everyone all the time and on the same day) under 150.
- If you were uncomfortable, that's OK.... when you are home to monitor and get a chance to obtain the data to make yourself comfortable, please do because Heart can only benefit from having the insulin he needs.
- If you could have had the +11 and the +12, you would have increased for comfortability to shoot because you would have known whether Heart's BG was on the way up or down.
- Don't forget about the shed..... I see that Heart went up to the 4th floor, but it's not always the case.
- We ALL have Heart's safety in mind. There isn't one person on this board who wouldn't come to Heart safety --> although we haven't mastered to feed HC thru the internet yet.
- sometimes life gets in the way and that's.... life.
Tonight is another cycle and tomorrow is another day....
A couple of things I will take to liberty to comment on.... kick me if you wish... I mean to be nice and constructive.... and in addition to what Sienne posted.
- Yes, the sticky says not to shoot under 150; however..... the sticky on becoming data ready said that you can shoot <150;
- there are about .... 50+ SS posted daily in this forum where people shoot (not everyone all the time and on the same day) under 150.
- If you were uncomfortable, that's OK.... when you are home to monitor and get a chance to obtain the data to make yourself comfortable, please do because Heart can only benefit from having the insulin he needs.
- If you could have had the +11 and the +12, you would have increased for comfortability to shoot because you would have known whether Heart's BG was on the way up or down.
- Don't forget about the shed..... I see that Heart went up to the 4th floor, but it's not always the case.
- We ALL have Heart's safety in mind. There isn't one person on this board who wouldn't come to Heart safety --> although we haven't mastered to feed HC thru the internet yet.
- sometimes life gets in the way and that's.... life.
Tonight is another cycle and tomorrow is another day....
dodgingwrenches
Member Since 2010
Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 -should I start thinking about decrease?
I re-read the actual Queens protocol and you're right, I probably could have safely given the shot according to the protocol. I just didn't want to take any chances knowing I wouldn't be home all day. These low numbers are new and unexplored territory for us, and I know he usually drops a full 10 mmol (180) by +3, so yeah, definitely didn't want to risk hypo while I wasn't home to monitor! I'll give him his shot at 6pm tonight (normally would be 8), and then at 6:30am tomorrow morning I'll set my alarm, and then 7pm, and then I'll be back at 7:30am Monday morning.
Re-reading the protocol, I'm wondering if I should start thinking about decreasing. His numbers would have been consistently nice and low probably had I not messed him up a few times (sitter last weekend accidentally giving HC dry food, etc)
I re-read the actual Queens protocol and you're right, I probably could have safely given the shot according to the protocol. I just didn't want to take any chances knowing I wouldn't be home all day. These low numbers are new and unexplored territory for us, and I know he usually drops a full 10 mmol (180) by +3, so yeah, definitely didn't want to risk hypo while I wasn't home to monitor! I'll give him his shot at 6pm tonight (normally would be 8), and then at 6:30am tomorrow morning I'll set my alarm, and then 7pm, and then I'll be back at 7:30am Monday morning.
Re-reading the protocol, I'm wondering if I should start thinking about decreasing. His numbers would have been consistently nice and low probably had I not messed him up a few times (sitter last weekend accidentally giving HC dry food, etc)
dodgingwrenches
Member Since 2010
Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 NS +9 473 - What dose?
An hour later, he's down a little. +473.
I want to give him his shot a little early. Should I try decreasing the dose a little to 3.0 though?
An hour later, he's down a little. +473.
I want to give him his shot a little early. Should I try decreasing the dose a little to 3.0 though?
Libby and Lucy
Member Since 2009
Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 NS +9 473 - What dose?
if you have any time adjustments you need to make (like if you want to move his shot time earlier), this would be a good time to shoot early.
I don't see any indications that Heart is ready for a dose reduction yet. Generally, we look for numbers under 50, or for numbers to be under 100 overall for a week. Actually I would be more inclined to *increase* the dose if it weren't for today's low AMPS. He might have spent time in green had he gotten a shot. With that in mind, I would hold the dose at least 3 more days to see where he ends up when he recovers from the missed shot.
if you have any time adjustments you need to make (like if you want to move his shot time earlier), this would be a good time to shoot early.
I don't see any indications that Heart is ready for a dose reduction yet. Generally, we look for numbers under 50, or for numbers to be under 100 overall for a week. Actually I would be more inclined to *increase* the dose if it weren't for today's low AMPS. He might have spent time in green had he gotten a shot. With that in mind, I would hold the dose at least 3 more days to see where he ends up when he recovers from the missed shot.
Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 NS +9 473 - What dose?
The purpose of the shed is not to hold numbers in check. It creates overlap between doses thereby not permitting a precipitous spike in BG levels at the end of a cycle. It's in part what contributes to Lantus being a long-acting and gentle insulin. It functions to keep a relatively stable level of insulin. However, that doesn't mean that BG levels don't fluctuate over the course of a cycle. However, when regulation is achieved, the curve is flat.
More technically, Lantus is depot-type medication. This is inherent in its pharmacology. Depot medications are all long-acting. If anything, skipping the shot depletes the shed. As a result, a portion of tonight's dose of insulin will go toward replenishing the shed. One of the options when you have a low pre-shot is to reduce the dose. This may have been a good option for this morning. While reducing the dose has an impact on the shed, it would have less of an impact than skipping the shot.
Sophia & Heart said:
The purpose of the shed is not to hold numbers in check. It creates overlap between doses thereby not permitting a precipitous spike in BG levels at the end of a cycle. It's in part what contributes to Lantus being a long-acting and gentle insulin. It functions to keep a relatively stable level of insulin. However, that doesn't mean that BG levels don't fluctuate over the course of a cycle. However, when regulation is achieved, the curve is flat.
More technically, Lantus is depot-type medication. This is inherent in its pharmacology. Depot medications are all long-acting. If anything, skipping the shot depletes the shed. As a result, a portion of tonight's dose of insulin will go toward replenishing the shed. One of the options when you have a low pre-shot is to reduce the dose. This may have been a good option for this morning. While reducing the dose has an impact on the shed, it would have less of an impact than skipping the shot.
Kathy and Kitty
Member Since 2009
Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 NS +9 473 - What dose?
Hi, Sophia,
Just wanted to encourage you through this initial learning period. There is so much to absorb, and lows that aren't really low can seem scary. I remember wanting to give high carb when Kitty hit 70 the first time (trust me, that's pure silliness).
You're getting wonderful support from knowledgeable people here, and Heart is going to do great!
Hi, Sophia,
Just wanted to encourage you through this initial learning period. There is so much to absorb, and lows that aren't really low can seem scary. I remember wanting to give high carb when Kitty hit 70 the first time (trust me, that's pure silliness).
You're getting wonderful support from knowledgeable people here, and Heart is going to do great!
dodgingwrenches
Member Since 2010
Re: 7/10 Heart AMPS 122 NS +9 473 - What dose?
Thanks Kathy.
So 6.7mmol (122) isn't considered a low? Vet told me normal range was between 4 and 8 mmol, so that's why I was a little worried about giving the shot
But then again, this is the vet who had me giving 5 units of Novolin twice daily and feeding DM dry. I completely ignored him about everything else, so I could ignore him here, too
PMPS he was down even further to 425, so I gave him his 3.5 units and his favourite Tuna. This stuff must be amazingly low carb, since it's 80% real tuna, and it's 18% protein!
Thanks Kathy.
So 6.7mmol (122) isn't considered a low? Vet told me normal range was between 4 and 8 mmol, so that's why I was a little worried about giving the shot
But then again, this is the vet who had me giving 5 units of Novolin twice daily and feeding DM dry. I completely ignored him about everything else, so I could ignore him here, too
PMPS he was down even further to 425, so I gave him his 3.5 units and his favourite Tuna. This stuff must be amazingly low carb, since it's 80% real tuna, and it's 18% protein!
dodgingwrenches
Member Since 2010
+3 is 286
Kathy and Kitty
Member Since 2009
No, 122 isn't low, objectively speaking. I think you mentioned that Heart goes in for big drops, and you weren't going to be home, so it's natural to be concerned. The more you test, the more comfortable you'll be. But by itself, that's a beautiful number.
Has anyone discussed the differences between human meters and the meter the vet uses? Their animal-calibrated meters read higher, maybe 30 points (Sienne knows this one). Even so, 122-30 is 92, which is still a good number.
You might like to read the spreadsheets in other condos. It will help give you an idea of numbers that diabetic kitties run. (Of course, ECID: every cat is different.)
Many vets don't know much about feline diabetes. They don't get a lot of training on it in school. In time, you will find that you've learned so much specialized information, you'll be giving your vet information he/she doesn't know. What you hope is that the vet is open-minded enough to listen to your experience.
Curious to know what you're feeding Heart.
You are in the right place and doing great!
Has anyone discussed the differences between human meters and the meter the vet uses? Their animal-calibrated meters read higher, maybe 30 points (Sienne knows this one). Even so, 122-30 is 92, which is still a good number.
You might like to read the spreadsheets in other condos. It will help give you an idea of numbers that diabetic kitties run. (Of course, ECID: every cat is different.)
Many vets don't know much about feline diabetes. They don't get a lot of training on it in school. In time, you will find that you've learned so much specialized information, you'll be giving your vet information he/she doesn't know. What you hope is that the vet is open-minded enough to listen to your experience.
Curious to know what you're feeding Heart.
You are in the right place and doing great!
dodgingwrenches
Member Since 2010
Hi Kathy,
What the vet used *looked* like a regular human BG meter, but I guess it could be some special animal one. No idea
This is his favourite Tuna food
http://www.petcetera.ca/Products/Cats/F ... preme.aspx
Made with 80% real red tuna. 18% protein, 2% fat, 78% moisture. Sounds almost fit for human consumption
What the vet used *looked* like a regular human BG meter, but I guess it could be some special animal one. No idea
This is his favourite Tuna food
http://www.petcetera.ca/Products/Cats/F ... preme.aspx
Made with 80% real red tuna. 18% protein, 2% fat, 78% moisture. Sounds almost fit for human consumption
Kathy and Kitty
Member Since 2009
That DOES look tasty!
I think it's suggested we feed fish flavors only once a week, because of the mercury levels. Maybe you can introduce another flavor gradually. It would be nice to know what the carb content of this brand is.
I think it's suggested we feed fish flavors only once a week, because of the mercury levels. Maybe you can introduce another flavor gradually. It would be nice to know what the carb content of this brand is.
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