7/05 Cleo PMPS 79;+1 80;+2 74;+3 70;+5 84

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Cleo & Jane (GA)

Cleo & Jane (GA)

Member Since 2013
Yesterday's Condo

AMPS 94
+2 79
+2.5 154 @ vets
+3.4 120
+7 38
+7.75 48 Eating more MC
+10.5 54

PMPS 79
+1 80
+2 74
+3 70
+5 84

4 P's in place for Miss Cleo this morning. Her appy is good, and she is sitting on catio with civvie, Opie, watching a disagreement between a family (?) of cardinals.

She has a vet appt this morning. We are having blood work done, and her BP is being checked. Her HR was elevated at last visit. Possibly a chest xray to check size of heart. She is doing so well, that getting these tests done, make me nervous. I don't want to find anything else wrong at this time. I want to enjoy my "good" time :-D

Happy Friday (I am off of work today :!: ) Healing and appy vines to all those in need!
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo AMPS 94

Enjoy your day off and send good vet visit vines today to you and Cleo. Hope the test results are better than last time :cool:
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo AMPS 94

Morning Jane,

Sending tons of good vetty and nothing wrong vines your way, I hope all goes well. I'm glad that Cleo is feeling so good, and good appy. Enjoy your day off! Woo hoo :-D

Kathie
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo AMPS 94; +2 79;+3.5 120

Vet report:

I will start by saying that this visit was MUCH more stressful than last months. Cleo knew something was going on - screamed going into carrier, then turned around and peed out of it. She has not done that in months. In waiting room, puppy barking non-stop! Thankfully we were put in a room quickly. I also know that this board is not to replace your vet, but I value everyone's opinions, and would love to hear them before I proceed with any med additions.

Last visit, a much calmer Cleo had a Stage 1 heart murmur. Today, Dr said it was much clearer, and graded it a Stage 3. Can stress make it worse?

BP Readings:
1 - 2 - 3
S - 136/ 134 / 143
M - 105 / 103/ 118
P - 87 / 85 / 104
P- 196 / 223 / 146

After the third test, Cleo was just moving too much, and Dr said she was happy with these readings - she said they are within normal range.

Labs:

4/14 - 7/05
Bun - 30 / 45 Cleo was given sub-q fluids - vet felt she was dehydrated.
Creat - 1.3 / 1.9
Phosphorus - 4.6 / 6.1
BG - 496 / 154

Dr. also wants to start Cleo on Enalapril 2.5 mg, 1/2 tab bid. Said this would put less strain on Cleo's heart, which could help with kidney values.

She also wanted to start Cleo on some form of aluminum hydroxide to bring her phosphorus down, because she cannot prescribe any Vit. D analogs (sp)(if and when needed) unless her phosphorus is below 6. I asked her if Cleo is showing signs of kidney failure, and she said no, but they like to be proactive with their diabetic kitties.
I refused the alum. hydrox. at this time, but told her, of course, we will continue to moniter her kidney values. Not sure if that was smart ohmygod_smile

She also recommended fish oil, added to her food 2 x week. I forgot to ask about strength of fish oil. Any advice on that also welcome. She would like to see Cleo in a month to check values again.

Any thought/advice very welcome - Thank you!!
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo AMPS 94; +2 79;+3.5 120 VET VISIT

I can't give you any advice but just want you to know Hoot and I are sending all kinds if healing vines to Cleo and strength vines to you. It's so hard when we find out our babies have something wrong. I'm sure this board can give you some great advice. Hugs to you and scritches to Cleo ♥
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo AMPS 94; +2 79;+3.5 120 VET VISIT

Also, do pill pockets come in different flavors? Do they effect BG at all? I have never used them, but Cleo is VERY hard to pill, so hoping that she likes them.

Thanks!
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo AMPS 94; +2 79;+3.5 120 VET VISIT

Hi, sorry the vet visit was so stressful. That could effect some of the tests, I don't know too much about the heart tests though. Marje is the expert on analyzing test results.

An elevated BUN is common for cats getting a high protein diet, more important is the Creatinine which isn't too bad, the Phosphorus is rather high. Tess is early stage for CRF and we have been managing her Phos by diet so far. I've extracted a list of LC/Low Phos foods from Dr. Lisa's list and it is in a tab on Tess's SS. If you don't want to use a binder you could try that. On Tanya's CRF site they recommend 250mg Phos/100 kcal or less, I try to keep it 200mg or less. FF tends to be rather high in Phos and once I got her on lower phos foods her test results were better. I know Marje gives Gus the Phos binder, but I don't know what if any side effects there might be form it.

yes, pill pockets do come in several flavors. Look for the Duck and Pea flavor as that is LC> Unfortunately they are only in the dog variety.
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo AMPS 94; +2 79;+3.5 120 VET VISIT

If you want to use pill pockets, the allergy formula (duck an pea) ones are made without corn syrup. You can find them in the dog section of a pet store.

The fish oil I'd recommend is Nordic Naturals. A lot of the fish oils that are out there have varying amounts of omega-3 so you're never sure what you're getting. This particular brand is formulated for small animals.

Do you already have Cleo on lower phos foods? Dr. Lisa has a chart that lists foods by their amount of phosphorus.

You might also want to take a look at Tanya's site on kidney disease. There's tons of information and it will help to explain the tests, what you can do in terms of prevention, etc. One thing to start doing if you're not already doing so is to add water to Cleo's food.
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo AMPS 94; +2 79;+3.5 120;+7 38! VET VISIT

AMPS 94
+2 79
+2.5 154 At vets
+3.5 120
+7 38

Could the fluids they gave her at vet's dropped her this low?? She is eating some MC food.
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo AMPS 94; +2 79;+3.5 120;+7 38! VET VISIT

yes fluids can drop BG, plus she is coming off the vet stress! Check again in half an hour and if not up then a drop of karo.
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo AMPS 94; +2 79;+3.5 120;+7 38! VET VISIT

Hang in there Cleo it will be ok :smile:

82818323-1ec3-4dbf-be43-e1c71f421653_zps406ac254.jpg
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo AMPS 94;+3.5 120;+7 38;+7.75 48VET VISIT

+7.75 48 Eating more MC food

Sienne, is it a reduction even though it was probably caused by the sub q fluids given at the vet? Also, if she is getting 1 1/2 drops, would I drop it to1 full drop?

Thanks.
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo AMPS +7 38;+7.75;+10.5 54 VET VISIT

+ 10.5 54

I fed her some of her new food, Cowbooy Cookout, so she will only be fasting for 1.5 hours at PMPS.

I bought a few different kinds from the list to try. The Wellness Healthy Indulgence Turkey and Duck is a pouch w/gravy?? But listed at only 9 carbs? Can that be true?

I am not going to freak out. I am going to look at having caught this early :-D I will not be able to feed all three cats this food, so I hope the others do not like it!!

I ordered the fish oil, should be here in a few days. We are keeping this girl healthy!!!!!
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo PMPS 79 VET VISIT

PMPS 79

I gave Cleo a reduced dose of 1 drop. Shot 1 hour late since she ate so late. I can catch up over weekend. Plus, I was worried that the fluids are still working on keeping her BG low. So far Cowboy Cookout is a big hit!!
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo PMPS 79 VET VISIT

Congrats on the reducie. I hope you can find the right meds and supplements to help Cleo keep feeling good.
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo PMPS 79 VET VISIT

Jane

I'm checking something for you on the enalapril.

Yes....stress at the vet's office can cause a heart murmur to be more pronounced. Whenever my kitties with heart murmurs were in the vet, they were III/VI but at home I/VI. However, murmurs can also progress so it is difficult to know if it is the stress or if it has progressed unless your vet will make a house call (which is what I did because of BP issues). The BP numbers are great!

Did she have any urine testing done? If so, what was her urine specific gravity?

I agree with Ann that I would likely hold off on the binder and try low phosphorus foods first. If her creat was higher, I would definitely be getting a binder into her and aluminum hydroxide is the gold standard binder. It can cause constipation but Gus has been on 1/4 tsp sprinkled on his food throughout the day for a couple years now and he does not have constipation issues (and he's also on bupe which can be constipating).

I also would agree to go ahead an drop her dose. Yes, the subqs can drop the BG quite a bit but it's usually more immediate as I'm assuming she got fluids around +3 or so?

I use the Nordic Naturals Sienne linked. GREAT product!!!

ok...BRB.
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo PMPS 79 VET VISIT

(((Jane))) I'm so sorry that the Vet visit was so stressful today, and that you didn't receive better news, but like you said... you have caught it early and can deal with it now. Good luck with the reduced dose.

Kathie
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo PMPS 79 VET VISIT

Jane

Ok...just a few other thoughts. With her creatinine where it is, even though it is in the "normal" range, she is considered to be in mild renal azotemia which includes creat levels from 1.6-2.6 according to the IRIS (International Renal Interest Society) system of staging CKD

Mild renal azotemia [lower end of the range lies
within the reference range for many labs but the
insensitivity of creatinine as a screening test means
that animals with creatinine values close to the
upper limit of normality often have excretory failure]
Clinical signs usually mild or absent
Click to expand...

A cat her age should have a phosphorus level more around 4.5; I'm going to modify my previous thoughts and say if you really don't want to try a binder now and want to try low phosphorus foods for maybe a month and see where you are, that would likely be ok. But if after a month, she is still closer to 6 than 4.5, I'd start the binder. It's easily mixed in food, it's tasteless, it's inexpensive. If it's one thing I learned from experience, it is to stay ahead of the phosphorus levels with CKD. I would still be really interested in her USG and whether she had any protein in her urine if they ran a sample. Free catch is fine for those tests.

Insofar as the enalapril, I'm not really sure why your vet is using it. Our Teddi Bear had a III/VI murmur and her kidney values were about the same; BP normal. The cardiologist and the IM specialist did not think an ACE inhibitor was warranted. Here is some info about Ace Inhibitors and you might also want to read about Enalapril on Mar Vista Vet which is an excellent site that I use often. Cleo doesn't have an issue with glomerulonephritis; neither does she have high BP or congestive heart failure. I think you should take this info to your vet and really question the need for enalapril.

I hope this helps. Please PM me if you have other questions and I'll pop back in. Her numbers are looking great!
 
Re: 7/05 Cleo PMPS 79 VET VISIT;+1 80

Thanks so much, Marje,

I will hold off on the Enalapril until I speak with vet again. Cleo had a U/A done last month. I was just told no infection over the phone. I will call tomorrow for full results to be picked up. We go in 4 weeks for a recheck and phosphorus will be tested again.

Cleo really seems to like the Cowboy Cookout - but I realized that it won't be made much longer. I went back to Pet Supermarket and took all they had left (only 12 cans).

Thanks again ~

And thank you Ann, I printed out your food list and took it with me to petstore. I bought one of each brand/flavor I could find to try.

Thank you Sienne, I ordered the fish oil, and have been investigating Tanya's site. Alot to absorb, and hard to stop reading.

Thanks to everyone for the good wishes - Cleo is still feeling fantastic!! She was just wiped out from the stressful visit today.
 
Hi Jane, Cleo is looking so good great on reduction, your doing good with her I have never seen the cowboy cookout over here at out coastal pets and she has almost everything in here. My other 3 get upset that Lucky get special food sometimes but can feed all the expensive stuff..Poor kitties
 
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