6/7 384 eyes on Mr Grey can't get BGL down

[Rick & Mr. Grey]

I don't know what to do anymore. Mr Grey's BGL will not come down. His belly breathing with slight purring sound gets very intense when it's near feeding time. I catch him breathing like that more often as of late as he lays resting on his side eyes open. He's thin but not bony and not acting weak, just not active or happy looking. He only has been eating Wellness wet Chicken, the best food that I know of. His snacks are human roasted chicken or turkey, or small amount of Wellness. I'm so afraid that he is suffering. I'm also afraid that his condition is a complex and not the typical FDB as the result of us living in a small cottage and breathing in toxic levels of mold for 4 years. We have been out of the toxic house a little over 2 months now. In theory, the mycotoxins that could still be present in his body, ( i know they are in mine from a urine test ) could be causing complications that are making regulation very difficult. So who really knows if insulin is going to be able to beat out the effects that mycotoxins could be rendering on his body functions. Mr. Grey has shown signs from day 1 that he is insulin resistant, in my opinion the fight going on in his body against mycotoxins form black mold exposer could be the very cause of his FDB and his insulin resistance. There needs to be scientific studies on this for sure. Any suggestions based on my writings and his SS are greatly appreciated.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

I don't know much about mold issues, Rick, but i can suggest a dose increase just based upon his spreadsheet. I'm glad you're holding his doses long enough to see if they are working, but i'd go up every 4-6 cycles by 0.5u if you're seeing nadirs over 300. Your goal is to keep his blood sugar in normal range (50-120) and that alone will help him feel better than with high numbers.

Looking at his spreadsheet and hearing your descriptions, i'd guess he has acromegaly. One of the strong indicators is the fluctuating insulin needs - he's gone up and down between 1.0u and 12.0u. Acromegaly is a benign tumor on the pituitary gland that puts out hormones that block the body's own insulin from being able to enter into the cells. the tumor's production of hormones can wax and wane, causing the insulin needs to go up and down.

The breathing sounds you're describing sound like stridor - it's a rattly, snoring sound that most people think is very cute. If that's what it is, it comes from excess tissues in the breathing passages that rattle as he breathes.

Does he have an enormous appetite at times? Does he gain weight in spite of the diabetes?

You might want to get him tested for this. You can also just treat him for his blood sugar and adjust the dose accordingly. There are information posts here, here and on the high dose insulin forum. There is no traffic there as people with high dose cats have either stayed here in this forum (Wendy/Neko, me/Punkin, Suzanne/Cobb, Wendy/Tiggy, Cindy/Tip, Lauren/Tommy and others) or moved to a facebook group, but there are some articles that you can read on the high dose forum.

There may be a university vet hospital near you that could consult with you about the influence of the mold on him.

I'd increase tonight, then continue to re-evaluate every 4-6 shots to see if you should increase again or hold. We can help you make that decision if you post regularly and ask. It's tough having a cat that seems impossible to get regulated and it's a lot easier if you're not going it alone. :YMHUG:

Are you feeling any better now that you're out of the cottage?

 

[Rick & Mr. Grey]

Thanks Julie, I had brought MR Grey to an internal medicine expensive vet to check him overall and for acro, based on his observations he did not think that he had it, or that I needed to spend money on getting him tested. He didn't and still doesn't have the outward body miss shapes and I'm not sure what else led the Dr. to his conclusions. His weight now is a little under. Mr Grey was an incredibly healthy indoor outdoor cat for 6 years living in three different houses with me, the third being the cottage is where his health started to fail out of nowhere and started with frequent long and large urinations and incredible thirst and some lethargy. Interesting that these major symptoms led me finally at start of year three to take him for exam. Looking back, two years of inhaling toxic black mold spores and extremely elevated spore counts of Penicillium/Aspergillus ( common molds dangerous in high counts ) could have triggered his FDB. We lived in the house for another 2 years while under treatment. He went into a remission at one point so he went OTJ 4 1/2 months as an experiment, but then back on again to present, and I have not been able to regulate ever since. He's not well. Since being away from cottage, my health has improved but not perfect yet. I'm on a serious evolving detox that involves the juicing and eating of organic produce and herbs, something I've always done anyway, omitting certain foods from diet, herbal blood cleaner supplements, chelation, vitamin therapy. That's the way I've lived for years but it's now more intense. I am waiting for the skin rashes and tinnitus to go away, hope my vision improves as well. Thanks for asking. Tonight I will increase MR G's dose to 9.5u. and see how he tests.

 

[rhiannon and shadow (GA)]

Has Mr. Grey had an xray?
I'd be curious if anything was growing in his lungs.... possibly caused and aggravated by the household exposures....

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

I remember you mentioned that before, but you can't tell by looking at a cat if they have acro. Most cats have nothing that says it, until it's well along. Punkin had no visible signs until about a year into it when he developed a large tongue, large feet and that stridor sound. An endless appetite is another common sign. The excessive growth hormones make the cat try to grow - soft tissue is easier to grow than bones, so organs and soft tissues will show signs of enlargement before anything else. the typical cat with acro is a large male, but i know of several petite females. There are many cats that don't fit the profile exactly. the blood test is the only way to be certain. Of the three high dose conditions, iaa, cushings and acromegaly, acro is the most common. Once a cat gets over 6u it becomes likely that they have one of those three conditions. Some have more than one of them.

You might look at those links I gave you and see if you think Mr. Grey has any of the symptoms other than stridor and a higher than average and fluctuating dose.

But, if you don't want to do the testing, that's ok. not everyone does. It can help with strategy if we know what high dose condition is involved - we suggest things differently if it's iaa than if it's acro, or if it's both. But it is ok to just go with treating the blood sugar by dosing.

I'm glad you're going to increase tonight.

Rhiannon is asking an interesting question.

 

[Rick & Mr. Grey]

Is there any other way besides sending blood samples to the university for a competant vet to diagnose Acro ? I am staring to read your links Julie thank you ! Maybe I'll learn the answer to my question in this post by reading the links you sent me.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

no - a blood test is the only way. I think you are in the US - the only lab in the US that does the test is MSU (Michigan State Univ.)

 

[Rick & Mr. Grey]

YAY he was BGL 130 this morning and acting much better and not heavy breathing ! the higher dose could be working for him...

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

fantastic! I'd give this dose 6 shots total and then re-evaluate. great to hear he's feeling better, rick!

when you post tomorrow, go ahead and start a new thread (condo). We try to start a new one every day to make it easier to see the current information.

have a great day!

 

[Blue]

I don't know what to do anymore. Mr Grey's BGL will not come down. His belly breathing with slight purring sound gets very intense when it's near feeding time. I catch him breathing like that more often as of late as he lays resting on his side eyes open. He's thin but not bony and not acting weak, just not active or happy looking. He only has been eating Wellness wet Chicken, the best food that I know of. His snacks are human roasted chicken or turkey, or small amount of Wellness. I'm so afraid that he is suffering. I'm also afraid that his condition is a complex and not the typical FDB as the result of us living in a small cottage and breathing in toxic levels of mold for 4 years. We have been out of the toxic house a little over 2 months now. In theory, the mycotoxins that could still be present in his body, ( i know they are in mine from a urine test ) could be causing complications that are making regulation very difficult. So who really knows if insulin is going to be able to beat out the effects that mycotoxins could be rendering on his body functions. Mr. Grey has shown signs from day 1 that he is insulin resistant, in my opinion the fight going on in his body against mycotoxins form black mold exposer could be the very cause of his FDB and his insulin resistance. There s to be scientific studies on this for sure. Any suggestions based on my writings and his SS are greatly appreciated.

There may be a number of reasons for the wandering higher dose, and it may not be insulin resistance. I know of one lady who has had her cat tested for acromegaly as well as IAA and both were negative, yet still she has had difficulties keeping her cat's BG from wandering. She DID find that her cat was improved when fed food in 3oz cans only due to BPA in the linings of canned foods. She has had to fiddle around with many options over time.

You could have an MRI I believe which can confirm acromegaly if blood tests were not done - many don't accept the acromegaly diagnosis from just the IGF-1 values.

There is no reason why you have to have Mr. Grey tested for IGF-1, but it could well be that he's an IAA kitty; some do reach doses as you are seeing, and they can fluctuate with extremes like on his ss.
The tests are good to have done because acromegaly is a condition that is permanent, due to a tumor, but IAA can be beaten, if you can push hard to very low numbers to beat the antibodies.
That's why it's kind of good to have the tests done.... so you know what's going on or not going on.

Either way, you will treat the numbers with insulin, but there IS a progression of acromegaly, causing issues with the organs, and while you can't tell from the outside, he may well be in pain, so it may be an idea to talk to your vet about a trial of maybe 10days with gabapentin, just to see if his breathing improves, if he relaxes more.

Cats with acromegaly do have health issues that can't be outside, but still progress damage-wise internally.

Gayle