? 6/5 AMPS poopers - 371 / weight concern

Poopers and Catia

Poopers and Catia

Member Since 2021
Hey everyone, I think it’s time to increase to .75U
I did his curve test and his numbers were good but then the next day mid day they just went up and I’m not sure why. I’m just getting really worried because of his weight … even the vet said that he lost a lot of weight and if he keeps loosing weight that I need to go see them. I’ve been giving him a snack mid day as well… half a can. Any advice??
 
With the limited ability to test and following SLGS the bg at 131 means you hold the dose. I do think there could be bouncing from lower bg. I’d be feeding him as much as he will eat as often as he wants it. Maybe look for a higher calorie food. How much food is he consuming now? How many calories? What’s your feeding schedule? It would be helpful to document this on your ss in the comments section. The pates are not high calorie. How much has he lost and how fast?
 
tiffmaxee said:
With the limited ability to test and following SLGS the bg at 131 means you hold the dose. I do think there could be bouncing from lower bg. I’d be feeding him as much as he will eat as often as he wants it. Maybe look for a higher calorie food. How much food is he consuming now? How many calories? What’s your feeding schedule? It would be helpful to document this on your ss in the comments section. The pates are not high calorie. How much has he lost and how fast?
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Sorry where do you see 131? Just trying to see what day you’re talking about.
Also he eats 1.5 cans at 5am then he gets a snack around 12 which is half a can or more then again 1.5 cans at 5pm and sometimes he snacks at night as well. He used to be 12lbs now he’s at around 8lbs. I believe it’s been within the year
 
On 6/3 it says amps 137. Would he eat more if you gave it to him? What is his ideal weight? When were his last labs done and was 12 pounds a good weight? That’s a lot to lose.
 
tiffmaxee said:
On 6/3 it says amps 137. Would he eat more if you gave it to him? What is his ideal weight? When were his last labs done and was 12 pounds a good weight? That’s a lot to lose.
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ohh 137 so by holding the dose you mean don’t give his .5u? Sorry I’m really trying to understand.
He would eat every minute of the day if he could to be honest with you, and 12 pounds was a good weight for him ideally I just want him to gain more weight I’m just scared if he keeps loosing weight. His last labs were done I would say more than a year ago, the vet did ask if I wanted to do an update but that’s something I’d have to speak with my sister about since we go half’s on everything for Poopers
 
Feed more food. He needs labs at least once a year at his age and really every 6 months would be better. Please talk to your sister. You need to see if there’s another reason not fd related for the weight loss.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Feed more food. She needs labs at least once a year at her age and really every 6 months would be better. Please talk to your sister. You need to see if there’s another reason not fd related for the weight loss.
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Will do! Also sorry if it seems like I don’t understand anything about his diabetes but I’m really trying… so I just want to confirm. Only decrease his units when his levels are too low of course , hold his units for as long as possible , when would you increase ?
 
You are following SLGS so if the nadirs are under 150 it says keep the dose the same. You increase if nadirs are over 150. I’d just follow the dosing method. Any more tests you can get will help find the nadir. Is suspect the night before that amps he was in the 100-175 range and perhaps lower but there isn’t any data to tell us. Also if you get a lower than expected bg like that morning do another test to see if the first test was accurate.
 
tiffmaxee said:
You are following SLGS so if the nadirs are under 150 it says keep the dose the same. You increase if nadirs are over 150. I’d just follow the dosing method. Any more tests you can get will help find the nadir. Is suspect the night before that amps he was in the 100-175 range and perhaps lower but there isn’t any data to tell us. Also if you get a lower than expected bg like that morning do another test to see if the first test was accurate.
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Ok so if his numbers are just consistent in the 300s then I’d have to increase at some point correct?
 
Whether to increase or decrease depends on how low it takes the cat and not how high. You look at all tests for 7 days. Any bg 100-150 do not increase. If all are 150-199. Increase .25. If under 90 reduce by .25.

It’s suggested to do a 12 hour curve every 7 days and get spot checks between +4-9 when possible.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Whether to increase or decrease depends on how low it takes the cat and not how high. You look at all tests for 7 days. Any bg 100-150 do not increase. If all are 150-199. Increase .25. If under 90 reduce by .25.

It’s suggested to do a 12 hour curve every 7 days and get spot checks between +4-9 when possible.
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Ok got it thank you so much for helping me with all this information
 
Catia:

Let me see if I can help you sort out dosing with SLGS. The idea here is that the dose typically needs to be adjusted either because your cat's numbers are higher than desirable (they are not in a blood glucose range that is normal for a cat) or they drop lower than desirable. Normal blood glucose (BG) is 50 - 120. Thus, with SLGS:
  • you reduce the dose if numbers fall below 90.
  • you increase the dose if numbers are over 150 for a week
If numbers are hanging out between 90 - 150, you want to keep the dose the same.

All dose changes are in 0.25u increments -- you increase or decrease by 0.25u.

Looking at Poopers' spreadsheet, on 5/28 you would have reduced the dose because you had a PMPS of 85, the same on 5/22. On both of those dates, it would have been wise to get a few more tests. As an example of why it helps to get more tests, on 5/17, you had a PMPS of 76 and Poopers' numbers kept dropping. There's a reasonable chance that the same thing happened on the other days where his pre-shot number was green. Getting more tests allows you to intervene if the numbers are getting too low. Currently, you've been at the same 0.5u dose for quite some time. It's been over a week at this dose. Like Elise suggested, since you've been at this dose for over a week, it's time to increase.

I'd also strongly encourage you to try to get at least 4 tests every day. You're great at getting your pre-shot tests. Are you able to get another test during both the AM and PM cycles? With Lantus, your dosing decision are based on how low the numbers go. For most cats the lowest point in the cycle is around +6. Without having much more information about how the dose is affecting Poopers' numbers, it's hard to make a decision about increasing or decreasing the dose.

There's a good chance that Poopers is losing weight because his numbers are not regulated -- he's not in normal BG numbers. It's the nature of diabetes that cats are hungry and lose weight if they are not regulated since it's insulin that allows nutrition to get into the cells. It's really OK to feed Poopers more so he gains weight back. As he spends more time in better numbers, his appetite will decrease.
 
In addition to the summary that Sienne provided, I also wanted to echo the importance of getting additional tests. You have had some very low numbers at preshot which makes me wonder how much lower he might have been during the cycle previously that you didn’t see. You mentioned weight loss, can you quantify? What kind of difference are we talking about and over the course of how many months? Depending on your typical feeding routine, and how many calories a day you are feeding him, if you are finding that he has a good appetite with adequate amount of calories, I’d try and bump up the feeding and see if that helps. If you increase calories and he is still not putting on weight then it may also be a thyroid issue. Depending on when the last time was that you had a vet check and labs, it might be worth bringing him in, many cats who have diabetes can develop other secondary issues, including hyperthyroidism. Reduced kidney function can also result in weight loss in cats. If you haven’t been to the vet in 6 months to a year, it might be worth getting a full vet evaluation, especially if you are finding he has other symptoms along with weight loss like lethargy, nausea, vomiting, excessive drinking, issues in litter box to name a few.
 
Besides diabetes, there are a couple other conditions that can cause weight loss if they are eating appropriate amounts. Those are hyperthyroidism and GI issues. If you haven't had blood work done recently for those two, you might want to consider it. The GI panel is not part of the regular blood work and thyroid tests may or may not be. Both can be treated.

For continuity, the link to your last post here: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/6-1-poopers-amps-162-6-333.278148/
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Catia:

Let me see if I can help you sort out dosing with SLGS. The idea here is that the dose typically needs to be adjusted either because your cat's numbers are higher than desirable (they are not in a blood glucose range that is normal for a cat) or they drop lower than desirable. Normal blood glucose (BG) is 50 - 120. Thus, with SLGS:
  • you reduce the dose if numbers fall below 90.
  • you increase the dose if numbers are over 150 for a week
If numbers are hanging out between 90 - 150, you want to keep the dose the same.

All dose changes are in 0.25u increments -- you increase or decrease by 0.25u.

Looking at Poopers' spreadsheet, on 5/28 you would have reduced the dose because you had a PMPS of 85, the same on 5/22. On both of those dates, it would have been wise to get a few more tests. As an example of why it helps to get more tests, on 5/17, you had a PMPS of 76 and Poopers' numbers kept dropping. There's a reasonable chance that the same thing happened on the other days where his pre-shot number was green. Getting more tests allows you to intervene if the numbers are getting too low. Currently, you've been at the same 0.5u dose for quite some time. It's been over a week at this dose. Like Elise suggested, since you've been at this dose for over a week, it's time to increase.

I'd also strongly encourage you to try to get at least 4 tests every day. You're great at getting your pre-shot tests. Are you able to get another test during both the AM and PM cycles? With Lantus, your dosing decision are based on how low the numbers go. For most cats the lowest point in the cycle is around +6. Without having much more information about how the dose is affecting Poopers' numbers, it's hard to make a decision about increasing or decreasing the dose.

There's a good chance that Poopers is losing weight because his numbers are not regulated -- he's not in normal BG numbers. It's the nature of diabetes that cats are hungry and lose weight if they are not regulated since it's insulin that allows nutrition to get into the cells. It's really OK to feed Poopers more so he gains weight back. As he spends more time in better numbers, his appetite will decrease.
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Thank you, I did think I needed to increase I just didn’t feel confident. And yes i’ll test him 4 times a day! Thank you for your help, I will feed him more he’ll definitely be happy
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Besides diabetes, there are a couple other conditions that can cause weight loss if they are eating appropriate amounts. Those are hyperthyroidism and GI issues. If you haven't had blood work done recently for those two, you might want to consider it. The GI panel is not part of the regular blood work and thyroid tests may or may not be. Both can be treated.

For continuity, the link to your last post here: https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/6-1-poopers-amps-162-6-333.278148/
Click to expand...
I will do another test I have to scalp the vet but i’ll update when I get the results
 
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