6/27: Sammy - AMBG 136; +2 110; +5 235; +8 213: PMBG 226

[Tina & Sammy]

Yesterday's Condo

I will admit that I was pretty discouraged last night. I had a very busy day at the office, and didn't get out of work until late. When I tried to get in touch with DH to test and feed Sammy he didn't have his phone on him so I couldn't reach him, and at the same time I was rushing to get to the Chiropractor before they closed. Needless to say I was a bit frustrated, and when I was finally able to get in touch with DH and he gave me Sammy's PMBG it was a total let down.

Then I wasn't able to give Sammy his fluids until +1.5 when I usually like to give it right at TEST time.

Anyway, it was a rough evening, but by +3.5 PMBG things were looking up a bit. Sammy was down to 124, still not exactly where I want to see him, but maybe his body is still trying to get use to not having insulin. I wanted to get a good nights sleep so I didn't get up at +6, which would have been Midnight, to test to see if he came down further. I left snacks out when I went to bed. And the good news is that Sammy didn't wake me up because he wanted more food or something different.

And because we had nothing to lose I did give him a bit of 8% food in all his snacks from PMBG last night. I had planned on holding off until we could get through 14 days off insulin, but since he was already so high and I didn't know what was going to happen I decided to give him the slightly higher carb food. this morning I have continued to give him the 8% food as well.

Technically Sammy didn't earn a trial so I think that is a good way to view it don't wait too long, you don't want his body getting used to higher numbers again and he's pretty close to the renal threshold tonight... It looks like he still needs a little support.

I totally agree. I know I would put him back on insulin if he stays up over 200 for a few days without seeing lower numbers. So far he is doing better today. I really don't know what is going on with his BG, but maybe all that time on too much insulin has made his liver a little panicky. Maybe his liver just needs time to realize that he isn't getting insulin any longer.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Hoping you are right. I keep thinking of Trixie. Sammy wouldn't be the first to unconventionally go off insulin.

 

[carfurby (GA)]

I hope Sammy proves you right. Slide down today Sammy.

 

[Tina & Sammy]

I am still not sure what is to make of Sammy's numbers. Last night he did come down to the low 100's by just a couple hours after PMBG and then he surfed there until morning, and even came down further during the day, but by +5 he was back up in the 200's.

Does anyone know if it is possible for his liver to panic even if he isn't on insulin?? He could possibly have been on too much insulin for over a month. I just don't know. @Jill & Alex (GA), @Wendy&Neko, @Marje and Gracie, @Chris & China , @Vyktors Mum , @rhiannon and shadow , @Sienne and Gabby , @Libby and Lucy . Does anyone know???

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Aack! I don't like those nasty yellows. The depot can take 4-6 cycles to deplete and he started edging up after 6 of no insulin. Not sure if that's it but I wouldn't let him stay in yellows for long.

Take a look at Trixie's 2014 SS, starting late April. She had a pancreatitis flare and @Amy&TrixieCat took her off insulin cause she wasn't eating. She stayed off. But was still getting blue bounces for the longest time. Jill posted that she thought Trixie was bouncing from her own insulin. So yes, it has happened.

 

[Vyktors Mum]

I wouldn't leave it more than another day without seeing green. He was doing well on .1 so I'd start there. Looking at his spreadsheet IMHO I don't think the .1 was too much

 

[Amy&TrixieCat]

I'm not quite sure what I think of Sammy's numbers, either, but my instinct tells me that he might need a little support for now. Trix's circumstances were definitely pretty unusual and different from Sammy's. I didn't stop shooting because I thought she was ready to go OTJ or because I thought she was over dosed (although, in hindsight, maybe she was???); the only reason I stopped was because she wasn't eating AND she was tossing me some significant greens, so shooting wouldn't have been safe. When I felt like I was ready to start re-shooting, someone - I can't remember who - suggested I test her at "+3", and when I did that, I found that she was dropping quite a bit (sometimes well over 100 points) without juice on board. Every time I took a PS test, I was wondering if I should restart, and finally Jill did tell me she thought Trix was bouncing off her own insulin...rare, but has been seen before. Trix FINALLY stopped bouncing after her last round of ABs earlier this year, which leads me to wonder if she's had an underlying low grade infection for quite some time that has finally cleared. It has just been odd with us, so I don't know if I would use her as an example...she's a prime example of ECID.

Today's yellows for Sammy make me a bit iffy, too...I wouldn't let him sit there for too long. He may just need a wee bit of juice...just like Trix is an odd case, we've had other kitties who need a teeny tiny dose to keep them in good numbers, but without it, they jump up too much.

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

I just posted this for someone else, so since it's still ready to paste I'll pass it on to you:

• Since 2006 we've encouraged those practicing Tight Regulation to attempt reducing the dose from 0.25u to 0.1u before stopping insulin completely. During a two week OTJ trial, you want to see mostly green numbers (under 100) with only a few random blue numbers between 100 - 120 to help ensure a strong remission.

With him back over 200, I would definitely restart his insulin. I found that it took very little time in higher numbers for punkin's body to "forget" what normal was and then the bouncing would begin again. I think the sooner you restart the better. I know how much you want him in remission again and I'm sure this is disappointing for you. The good news is that he's been well-regulated on a tiny dose. Some cats just keep on needing it. Laura's tried OTJ trials a couple of times with Zeke and he just seems to continue to need a tiny dose too.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

IMHO, Sammy was given a few reductions close together that he didn't earn. I think the depot has finally drained and he needs insulin. If he were my kitty, I'd put him back at 0.25u and then let him earn the reduction.

Eta: I wrote that yesterday afternoon and thought I hit "post reply" but guess I didn't. Sorry...