6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - question

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Pumbaa

Member Since 2012
I was really surprised that Pumbaa was still pink last night at his PM +3...historically his numbers are lower at night. But Mr. Unpredictable was predictable in his unpredictableness. Hahahahaha!

Now that I have added the %KCal values to the food column on his SS (protein/fat/carbs), I have been going back and looking for correlations between the % carbs and the BG numbers. It doesn't appear to me that Pumbaa is overly carb-sensitive, but maybe someone else will see something I'm not seeing.

I was tempted to raise his dose to a fat 2.0U this morning, but decided to hold off because I want to make sure he clears his bounces, and yet don't know if the 445 he had the morning of 6/25 was a bounce or not. I'm still trying to figure out what constitutes a bounce! After his dive last Friday (6/23), was the 541 AMPS the only bounce, and the rest of the high numbers were coming off that bounce, or was he bouncing off a bounce a couple of times? <--That is my question. I don't want to change his dose if he's still clearing a bounce, but I need to know when to start clocking the 72 hours it takes him to clear a bounce.

I was so hoping that Pumbaa would settle into yellows and blues at 2.0U.

On the plus side, I reordered supplies yesterday from American Diabetes Wholesale, and they continue to amaze me with their quick order fulfillment. They, once again, shipped the same day they got my order, and the order should be here by Saturday. And, I qualified for free shipping because I spent over $100. Not hard to do since I ordered 250 test strips ($0.08 per strip cheaper than purchasing them at Walmart), and ordered six boxes of lancets for $2.18 per box (I was running low so had to purchase lancets tonight at CVS Pharmacy, where a box of 100 of their generic lancets was $7.29). Also, because I am so pissed off at the poor quality of the Relion syringes (had to toss two this morning because one wouldn't fill, and the next one the lines were just so not straight that I couldn't even pretend to make an accurate dose) I ordered a box of 100 Monoject syringes, as those have received great reviews on these boards, and I also ordered the more expensive UltiCare U-100 Vet Rx Half Unit 31g syringes, which only come 60 to a box. I will be interested in testing these since the needles are triple-beveled for comfort. I don't want Pumbaa shying away from me anymore during injection times. I don't know if it's the insulin (I let it warm up first, and do rub the injection area a lot immediately after injecting), or the needle poke, or the anticipation of the needle poke/injection due to our routines.

Geez, this is expensive, isn't it? I go through over 200 test strips a month, not to mention the insulin, and the lancets and the cotton pads I cut in half (to save some costs there). And the food. Oy vey!

But, I do highly recommend American Diabetes Wholesale, as you will save money ordering your lancets and syringes and test strips (when applicable) from them.

Praying that Pumbaa isn't doing a dive tonight, and hope you all have great sleeps!

Suze
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

Pumbaa said:
...I'm still trying to figure out what constitutes a bounce! After his dive last Friday (6/23), was the 541 AMPS the only bounce, and the rest of the high numbers were coming off that bounce, or was he bouncing off a bounce a couple of times? <--That is my question.
Good question, I was hoping we would see an answer. nailbite_smile

The stock answer "Cats bounce until they don't" while certainly cute, is more of an artful dodge of the question. But that might be the point: TR doesn't acknowledge or care about bounces?

The clan of Lev has a different take. And Venita told me that while the type of insulin may not *cure* bouncing, the solution is in creative dosing. So I take that to mean something does have to be done about it, which kind of loops us back to the clan of Lev.

I suspect there may be different components causing bounce, while some may clear in a day or two, others may take a week or even much longer to fade down.

Pumbaa said:
...I don't want Pumbaa shying away from me anymore during injection times. I don't know if it's the insulin (I let it warm up first, and do rub the injection area a lot immediately after injecting), or the needle poke, or the anticipation of the needle poke/injection due to our routines.
With Lantus I wouldn't do anything with the injection site after the shot beyond lightly checking if it may be damp. For the reason review Lantus vs Levemir which is a nice little summary of the actions and differences which BTW concludes that while both are great, all other things being equal Levemir has a slight edge. ;-)

Since Lantus must form a precipitate *after* the injection, you probably don't want to disrupt or hinder that process by rubbing the site. Any Lantus that doesn't precipitate properly apparently can go right into the blood, which may contribute to the variability of the shed and levels of serum Lantus.

As you can read there, Lantus has hydrochloric acid added (down to a ph of 4) to make it dissolve, you are fully injecting that acid which can certainly make it sting as compared to ph neutral Levemir.

Bet you didn't know Lantus is brewed from vats of E. coli bacteria? While Levemir is "leavened" from bakers yeast. Now would you rather shoot daily into your cat? ;-)
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

Hey, Chip is doing good today! The opposite of Pumbaa. Chip started the morning in pink and has dropped down to blue....Pumbaa started in yellow and has gone up to pink. What is up with that?

Thank you for the link to that information on Lantus vs. Levemir. Interesting read!

I read somewhere that massaging the injection site after shooting was a good thing. I'll have to hunt for that reference and make sure that it was in respect to Lantus...I certainly don't want to be disturbing the insulin inside Pumbaa if it's not supposed to be disturbed.

Suze
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

Pumbaa said:
...I read somewhere that massaging the injection site after shooting was a good thing. I'll have to hunt for that reference and make sure that it was in respect to Lantus...I certainly don't want to be disturbing the insulin inside Pumbaa if it's not supposed to be disturbed.

Suze
Let me know if you find that. I never read anywhere that you shouldn't touch it. That's just my take on the iffy properties and variability of the Lantus clumps.
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

And I can't tell what is going on with Pumbaa. Drifting up to higher pink? Overall those levels are not that bad, but why doesn't it settle into something more typical?
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

Dale 'n' Chip said:
Let me know if you find that. I never read anywhere that you shouldn't touch it. That's just my take on the iffy properties and variability of the Lantus clumps.

I searched the boards for "massage", and the only references I found were on the PZI board. I'm going to have to ask if massaging the area after the injection with Lantus is a bad thing. I certainly don't want to be sabotaging myself!
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

Pumbaa said:
Hey, Chip is doing good today! The opposite of Pumbaa. Chip started the morning in pink and has dropped down to blue....Pumbaa started in yellow and has gone up to pink. What is up with that?
It's uncanny but Chip is apparently doing the same thing as MammaDale's Maxito. Long flat blue, his longest ever and it just crossed PMPS.

I shot the full dose. :shock:

As for the massage thing I wouldn't worry about it too much. I just try to get good shot in the tent, and he takes off before I could do anything anyway. There is probably not much reason to play with the area after the shot. If you suspect it might be stinging, that might be a reason to switch before buying more Lantus?
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

I'm glad to see Chip down in the blues like that! Hopefully he won't take a dive into the low green numbers tonight. Fingers crossed that he will enjoy surfing the blues for a while!

I'm still considering switching Pumbaa to Levemir, but I have 2-1/2 Lantus pens left, plus leftovers in the first two vials that I want to use up. "Good to the last drop!" *LOL* Wasn't that a Maxwell House coffee commercial years ago?

I started massaging Pumbaa's injection site when he started trying to avoid me at all costs at injection times. Maybe about a month ago? I wish that is something I would have documented in his SS. I'm looking forward to trying those new syringes...the triple-beveled ones. Pumbaa even flinches when I prick his ears, even though I use Neosporin pain relief on the in advance, and I'm freehanding it, not using the lancet device. Maybe he's just sensitive to needle pricks? I just ordered 30 gauge lancets since he bleeds just fine now and doesn't need the 28 gauge anymore.

I don't know if he's flinching due to the needle pricks (I try to be gentle!) or because he knows our routines now and anticipates what is going to happen.

In any case, thank you for questioning my massaging Pumbaa's injection site afterwards. It's so easy to learn bad habits, isn't it?

Suze
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

Pumbaa said:
...After his dive last Friday (6/23), was the 541 AMPS the only bounce, and the rest of the high numbers were coming off that bounce, or was he bouncing off a bounce a couple of times? <--That is my question. I don't want to change his dose if he's still clearing a bounce, but I need to know when to start clocking the 72 hours it takes him to clear a bounce.
Going on the assumption that he is getting too much, that kind of answers your question: yes he is bouncing off of a bounce, a couple of times. :o
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

Suze said:
After his dive last Friday (6/23), was the 541 AMPS the only bounce, and the rest of the high numbers were coming off that bounce, or was he bouncing off a bounce a couple of times? <--That is my question. I don't want to change his dose if he's still clearing a bounce, but I need to know when to start clocking the 72 hours it takes him to clear a bounce.
To my eyes, the bounce cleared by AMPS on 6/26. Just a reminder, it takes up to 72 hours for a bounce to clear. They can clear sooner.

Dale said:
TR doesn't acknowledge or care about bounces?
Those of us who follow a protocol do, in fact, both acknowledge and care about bounces. The statement, "Cats bounce until they don't." isn't a dodge any more than ECID is a dodge. There is no way to predict which cats will bounce, when they will stop bouncing, or how long a bounce will last. It's an individual difference variable and as far as I know, no one here has a crystal ball -- at least not one that works reliably. What I would suggest is to look at the SSs of cats where "creative" dosing has been done and look at SSs where that hasn't been the approach.
Dale said:
...all other things being equal Levemir has a slight edge
I don't think you and I are reading the same article or you are interpreting the information differently than I am. The article concludes, "Both Lantus and Levemir are excellent basal (long acting) insulins, there is very little to choose between them though occasionally one is preferred over the other for special reasons, otherwise they are essentially interchangeable and both provide steady basal insulin release over the period of a day."

As for the E. coli, it is the flora that exists in everyone's gut. It's a "healthy" bacteria. Not to belabor a point, but ask anyone who has ever had a systemic (or even a localized) yeast infection how that feels. If the methods for manufacturing these types of insulin were not safe, they would not make it past a phase 1 trial let alone a phase 4 clinical trial. Both are FDA approved.
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

Sienne and Gabby said:
I don't think you and I are reading the same article or you are interpreting the information differently than I am. The article concludes, "Both Lantus and Levemir are excellent basal (long acting) insulins, there is very little to choose between them though occasionally one is preferred over the other for special reasons, otherwise they are essentially interchangeable and both provide steady basal insulin release over the period of a day."

As for the E. coli, it is the flora that exists in everyone's gut. It's a "healthy" bacteria. Not to belabor a point, but ask anyone who has ever had a systemic (or even a localized) yeast infection how that feels. If the methods for manufacturing these types of insulin were not safe, they would not make it past a phase 1 trial let alone a phase 4 clinical trial. Both are FDA approved.
Thanks for jumping in here Sienne. BTW the part about the E. coli is really a joke I'm not worried about that. Yes yeast can be bad as well. :smile:

As for the comparison, the article says they are very similar, but there are just a few little things where Levemir may have the edge. And not really any (in my book) where Lantus offers something (I need) Levemir doesn't. Both are very good. The differences may be slight. I'm not trying to be partisan, a little patience is finally showing Chip the benefits of Lantus. And Sienne I don't consider you a partisan (in the so called turf wars) because I noticed you recommended Levemir to someone recently, and you have every right to have a preference (or bias) for Lantus since you actually use it with Gabby. What I didn't appreciate was being told what I should or shouldn't use by some who were using just the opposite themselves personally.

About like Dale telling people to use Levemir when he hasn't used it? Well I have both scripts now and I still don't really know which one I should use. But at least now I have a choice. ;-)

Sienne really the biggest point of credibility you have is all the spreadsheets you'd studied and all the people you've helped... including me. The cats thank you for that. :smile:
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

Sienne and Gabby said:
Suze said:
After his dive last Friday (6/23), was the 541 AMPS the only bounce, and the rest of the high numbers were coming off that bounce, or was he bouncing off a bounce a couple of times? <--That is my question. I don't want to change his dose if he's still clearing a bounce, but I need to know when to start clocking the 72 hours it takes him to clear a bounce.
To my eyes, the bounce cleared by AMPS on 6/26. Just a reminder, it takes up to 72 hours for a bounce to clear. They can clear sooner.


Thank you, Sienne. I was looking at all of his high, flat numbers as his bounce having not cleared. The days on end of high, flat numbers after a beautiful day of low numbers is what has been confounding me.

Suze
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

Pumbaa said:
...On the plus side, I reordered supplies yesterday from American Diabetes Wholesale, and they continue to amaze me with their quick order fulfillment. They, once again, shipped the same day they got my order, and the order should be here by Saturday. And, I qualified for free shipping because I spent over $100. Not hard to do since I ordered 250 test strips ($0.08 per strip cheaper than purchasing them at Walmart), and ordered six boxes of lancets for $2.18 per box (I was running low so had to purchase lancets tonight at CVS Pharmacy, where a box of 100 of their generic lancets was $7.29). Also, because I am so pissed off at the poor quality of the Relion syringes (had to toss two this morning because one wouldn't fill, and the next one the lines were just so not straight that I couldn't even pretend to make an accurate dose) I ordered a box of 100 Monoject syringes, as those have received great reviews on these boards, and I also ordered the more expensive UltiCare U-100 Vet Rx Half Unit 31g syringes, which only come 60 to a box. I will be interested in testing these since the needles are triple-beveled for comfort. I don't want Pumbaa shying away from me anymore during injection times. I don't know if it's the insulin (I let it warm up first, and do rub the injection area a lot immediately after injecting), or the needle poke, or the anticipation of the needle poke/injection due to our routines.

Geez, this is expensive, isn't it? I go through over 200 test strips a month, not to mention the insulin, and the lancets and the cotton pads I cut in half (to save some costs there). And the food. Oy vey!

But, I do highly recommend American Diabetes Wholesale, as you will save money ordering your lancets and syringes and test strips (when applicable) from them.
So what do you think of the new syringes?
 
Re: 6/27 Pumbaa AMPS/314 +4/286 +10.5/330 PMPS/322 - questio

They're due for delivery today...I'll let you know!
 
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