6/27 Jinx PMPS 225, +2 238, +4.5 229

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Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303

Morning Joe

Wow on his numbers last night after shooting 1u yesterday. I'm glad he came up without you being up all night.

I'd be sure to get a +2. I'm on the way to work so have a good day. Hope you are napping when you can. Good luck with the vet...you have the tools to discuss it with her now. I think it is a good suggestion to kindly let her know you are his advocate and you research things just as if it was your own or a parent's or child's health.

Have a great day. Eat, Jinx!!!
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303

Good luck with the vet today! It looks like you are armed with lots of information and questions. Welcome to the asthmatic, diabetic, IBD club! Sorry for the diagnosis but it could be worse and can be controlled. Have a great day Joe!
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83

Will look over your previous posts after I get his dive taken care of. He will not eat any HC/gravy or a drop of honey so I think I'm going to try to syringe feed him some karo here soon. any suggestions????
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83

Try and see if you can mix the gravy with karo and syringe it if he is not eating ok?
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83

Oh my! :shock: What a drop! I agree w/ Marje, as long as you are going to use a syringe, get some food into him too. If you have to resort to syringe feeding, do it w/ a food that isn't one he regularly eats. He may develop an aversion to whatever you use to syringe.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83, +2.8 73

Thanks, Ann. I think I spoke to Marje after she posted... Unless I'm not thinking clearly, it will be next to impossible to separate the gravy from the ~90% solids in the FF gravy lover's to syringe feed so I'm going to just use the karo today and will reduce his dose tonight until we can get these dives under control. I guess I could try to buzz up the gravy lover's in a food processor or vitamix but if the karo does the trick today, I'll probably stick with that. He did eat a decent amount of food this morning so I'm not as concerned about getting calories in him right now than preventing him from going real low.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83, +2.8 73

Hi Joe. I'm just peeking on from tbp, to see how Jinx and you are doing.

If you haven't already done so, I would encourage you to join the Feline Pancreatitis Support Group http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline_pancreatitis_support/ I have been a member since March and have gotten good advise from them, and they seem to help cats with multiple issues, a lot, too.

Hugs to you. I hope you get all the meds. Jinx needs from the vets, today.

Come up to some nice relaxed numbers, please Jinx. You're dad has enough on his mind.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83, +2.8 73

Also just talked to my vet and used the transcript from the pancreatitis roundtable discussion Sienne sent me last night as the basis for why I want to assume Jinx is in pain rather than not. And why I want to treat him with an anti-nausea vice appetite stimulant. She was open and agreeable and is sending off the prescriptions for buprenorphine and ondansetron today. Unfortunately, he has the loose stools again so he's getting flagyl as well until or if I'm able to get that under control again.

I want to add that all of your advice and recommendations last night regarding CP was invaluable and helped me to better understand what the vets in the roundtable were talking about and how I approached the conversation with my vet today. I still have a lot more to read and digest but wanted to prioritize with the pain meds and anti-nausea.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83, +2.8 73, +3.8 81

Thank-you for sending that, Ann! I'll look it over this afternoon. I'm currently giving Jinx methyl B-12 (Zobaline) for his neuropathy but I'm very interested to see if that form of B-12 can also help with IBD or if I need something else, or a higher dosage. Thanks again!

I'm hoping I lucked out with the 0.3mL karo. Seems to have leveled off the dive. Will check again in 45 min or so.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83, +2.8 73, +3.8 81, +5 106

Just noticed your message, Dyana. Thanks for passing that along. I'll check the board out today.

Jinx is coming up nice with the 0.3mL karo. I do have a feeling there's an underlying reason that's causing these dives that's probably not good and I do think a dose reduction tonight is the smart move. But does anyone think there's a chance that for whatever reason, he just needs food with a slightly higher carb content?
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83, +2.8 73, +3.8 81, +5 106

I don't have any advice, but just want to send some well wishes your way. We're thinking about you guys.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83, +2.8 73, +3.8 81, +5 106

Just a heads up that I'm going to head out soon to get the buprenorphine and ondansetron. I will post the dosages and instructions I get to see if they seem right for those of you who have used them before.

Also, just noticed your earlier messages, Karrie and Melissa. Thank-you for the well wishes and I appreciate you clarifying the difference between Cypro and Cerenia for me, Karrie. Glad there's a better alternative to the Mirtazapine.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83, +2.8 73, +3.8 81, +5 106

Joe

In regard to buprenorphine, it has a rather wide dosing range. For example, my Gussie weighs 9.5 lbs and he can have up to .25ml bupe (.3mg/ml concentration) every 8 hours. But that would make him "catatonic" and so I give him .1ml bid. He's comfortable and alert. So you probably want to start with less and then increase if it isn't working. How much does Jinx weigh?

Ondansetron comes typically in 4mg tabs and the dose is 1 mg sid. The tabs are small and are a bugger to cut into little pieces. So I don't know if she's had it compounded for you (which would probably be really expensive since the pills aren't cheap).

Ondansetron and bupe can be constipating.

Will get back to you on dose before your shot time.

Until we see how Jinx does in the long term with a dose change and with meds, I would be cautious if I were you about changing anything else. Once he's better and eating well, then we can perhaps see if it would be appropriate to address % carbs. But it's going to be tough considering his poo issues, possible IBD, etc.....you will have to feed him the foods that work best for his overall health even though it might be lower in carbs (e.g. raw.....and that is JUST an example).

The following comments regarding carbs are general comments. In other words, you asked a question about carbs but I am not suggesting that it is a "solution" to whatever might be going on with Jinx. I'm just giving you a general idea across the board.

So....in general, some cats do better on higher low carb foods. When our cats are newly diagnosed, many of us (including moi) run to get the lowest carb foods we can find. In actuality, a low carb food that is more in the 5-10% calories from carbs range might be better for some cats. However, I want to stress that nothing regarding food is a one size fits all. So as we get to know a kitty and their cycles more, then we can see if there might be some advantage to feeding a higher low carb food. ECID.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83, +2.8 73, +3.8 81, +5 106

Joe

How about shooting 1.25u tonight and see how it goes? Do you have any feelings one way or another based on your first hand observation and knowledge of Jinx? That dose is just a recommendation but you are the one holding the syringe and the cat. Until he's back to his normal self, we just may have to be more flexible with his dosing...we can always pick up the protocol again after he's doing better and eating.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83, +2.8 73, +3.8 81, +5 106

Marje, I was giving it some thought today and was leaning towards either 1.25 or 1.5u. So I'll try 1.25u and see how he responds.

As far as the meds... Jinx weighs about 16.5 lbs and my dosing instructions are one 4mg tablet of Ondansetron twice daily and 0.5mL of Buprenorphine three times daily. Based on what you said, both of those doses seem very high. I'll hold off on giving them to him until I hear back from you.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83, +2.8 73, +3.8 81, +5 106

Joe --

That dose of Ondansatron seems awfully high. Could you double check that. I think it's usually 1.0mg.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx AMPS 303, +2 83, +2.8 73, +3.8 81, +5 106

Sienne, I just double-checked it and it's 4mg twice daily. I'm going to hold off on that and the bupe until I get a consensus on what sensible doses for those meds are.

Fairly low PMPS for Jinx so I gave 1.25u.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx PMPS 225

So although 0.5mL bupe seems high, I wonder if that's the dose they gave me because the instructions are to administer it orally which diminishes the effectiveness. From what I've read, sublingual bupe is more effective than oral because it gets absorbed into the bloodstream faster and doesn't have as long of a route to travel than oral. Just not sure how much the effectiveness is diminished, though. And I'm not sure if oral increases the chance of stomach upset.

Jinx is a challenge to syringe so oral would be much easier....
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx PMPS 225

Just got ~0.25mL of the bupe in the vicinity of his cheek pouch. He fought it like crazy and the little stinker actually swatted the syringe out of my hand and got a little bit of the tuna fish flavored bupe on the couch. Didn't like the thought of him possibly being in pain so I wanted to give him some tonight. I'll wait to hear back on the right dose for the ondansetron, though.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx PMPS 225, +2 238

Seems like forever since Jinx had a +2 around his pre-shot. Hoping for a nice nadir somewhere greater than >70 tonight with no drama.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx PMPS 225, +2 238

Joe

I've been looking at different websites I've used for cat info and consistently find 1 mg sid for a 10 lb cat but it can be given 1 mg bid for a larger cat. I just wouldn't give him any more than that. Anne and Liz give Zener ondansetron and he's a big cat.. They give him 1 mg bid.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx PMPS 225, +2 238

You have so much on your plate right now. You're doing a great job. I hope Jinx gives you a nice, drama free cycle tonight.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx PMPS 225, +2 238

I've been looking around too Marje and I agree. I actually gave him 1mg about a half hour ago. I figured that would be safe and see what everyone had to say about BID or SID. What do you think? It's seems like it would be very difficult to gauge effectiveness. Especially considering his appetite is back. Although that could very well be influenced by the Mirtz.

I'm going to find out what my vet based the Zofran dose off of tomorrow. Probably one of those magic eight balls...
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx PMPS 225, +2 238

Thanks, Reagan. I'd be lost without the help and support from all of you, though. :-D
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx PMPS 225, +2 238

I think, considering his weight, that you are fine with 1mg bid. I wouldn't give any more than that. Perhaps it was just a typo but 4mg even sid is too much.

The thing about giving him the bupe in his cheek pouch or gums is that if he is in pain you do want it to kick in faster. I'm wondering if the reason they gave it to you at a higher concentration was because they were intending it be administered orally and, like you said, that weakens the efficacy.

Glad to see that +2 will hopefully give you just a normal cycle and not a screaming down cycle. I think it would be good to check him mid cycle or before you go to bed because he could very well come down further.

Have a great night.
 
Re: 6/27 Jinx PMPS 225, +2 238

I'll do that then, Marje. Thank-you for looking into it and for the advice. Got a test in at +4.5 and he's still in the 200s so I'm going to call it a night. Hope you're getting some sleep too.
 
On the FAF board we see a lot of vets prescribing 4mg. The plumbs guide has a wide range I guess.

The recommendation on the FAF board is 1mg twice a day. And if that isn't cutting it to go to every eight hours vs upping the 12 hour dose.
 
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