6/27 Bob AMPS=434, +4=516 HELP?????

[Lkldcatlady]

Does anyone know what the heck is going on here?? My poor Bob - I can't figure out what is going on. He seems to be doing ok, other than his coat looking a little ratty and his pee has not gotten any smaller. He seems to be awake during the day (instead of passed like he was drunk before I knew he was diabetic) and playing a little here and there. I just don't understand how his BG could go UP after giving insulin. This never happened with the ProZinc, although he seemed to regularly have VERY high numbers on the prozinc. It seems like that isstarting to happen again. I'm taking him to see his specialist on Monday who will do a fructosamine test (I know it's not necessary - I just feel more comfortable getting another opinion) and get his weight and give him an exam. I'd also like her to check for ketones and whatever else might be necessary. Should I have him tested for the antibodies for insulin resistance? I'm trying to be patient and realize ECID, but I just can't wrap my mind around the fact that his BG does't seem to want to go lower than the high 300's. :cry:

Oh, btw, I have checked the Lantus really good - it's clear, no floaties and has never been left out.

yesterday condo

 

[Ann & Tess GA]

You are seeing improvement, but it takes time. Remember, he didn't develop this disease overnight and it won't be regulated that quickly either.

It takes time for Lantus to start working. Sometime when we increase a dose numbers will go up for a few cycles, we call it New Dose Wonkiness (NDW).

Since Bob is still eating a HC dry food he will need more insulin. It is probably a little early to worry about IAA. Usually that is tested for after they have been on a high dose for quite some time.

 

[Lkldcatlady]

It takes time for Lantus to start working. Sometime when we increase a dose numbers will go up for a few cycles, we call it New Dose Wonkiness (NDW).

I guess I just expected something to work a little more quickly. I'll remember the NDW and try not to be hysterical.

I think I may try to take a few days off and get Bob to eat some canned food. I'm thinking I will have to put the other cats away and not give him a choice. Maybe he will eat it if I'm more patient. Just a few questions:

1. How much canned food should he eat? He's a big-boned cat and weighs about 14 lbs (lost a couple with the diabetes) but my doctor said he's still a little overweight

2. What do I do about his low points in the middle of the day? Now I have a timed feeder that opens at 6 hours with a few kibbles in it just in case he needs it.

3. What should I do about his dose of insulin when starting him on canned food?

 

[Deb & Wink]

1. How much canned food should he eat? He's a big-boned cat and weighs about 14 lbs (lost a couple with the diabetes) but my doctor said he's still a little overweight

2. What do I do about his low points in the middle of the day? Now I have a timed feeder that opens at 6 hours with a few kibbles in it just in case he needs it.

3. What should I do about his dose of insulin when starting him on canned food?

1. If ideal weight is 12 pounds, 12 * 15 calories per pound = 180 + 70 = 250 calories per day for a normal cat. Non-regulated diabetic cats can require up to 50% more sot 250 + 50% = 375 calories per day. An average 5.5 oz can of Friskies pate has 180 calories so 2 5.5 oz cans a day.

We can adjust up or down as this progresses.

2. You can still use the timed feeder for the canned food. Mix about 1 Tablespoon of water into the food to keep it from drying out. Some cats like the extra water mixed in and eat the wet food better. Think thick applesauce consistency to soupy consistency.

Also, you can freeze portions of canned food and leave them out to thaw. He can nibble on them as they thaw. Well, maybe after he decides he likes canned food he will start to nibble them.

3. Insulin dose when starting him on canned food needs to be adjusted down usually. It depends on how quickly he switches to the wet food.

 

[GregFurBall]

Hi Dara and Bob-
Just wanted to stop by and say HI and welcome to the LL. Its a wonderful group of people. I'm not on too much any more after we went OTJ last fall, but I made some friends that I like to come check up on and check out the newbies. :smile:

I read your post about the challenges you have had getting Bob to transition food. My heart goes to you. I think our big boy was just not feeling well that once we started insulin and changed food, he basically went from dry to canned to raw in about 2 weeks. So blessed were we (and yes, very uninformed as we were not told about the impact getting off dry could have on his BG AND we were not told how to test...hence, finding this board saved us a lot of potential struggles). Anyway, what I wanted to let you know is that you do not have to grind your own raw food. We use Nature's Variety Instinct Raw and it is already prepared, frozen. All you have to do is unthaw and feed. We like to add water and make it a soupy mess and Fur Ball loves it. Just wanted to give you another suggestion, if you aren't already feeling overwhelmed by all the other suggestions. :smile:

Hang in there. Gotta get yourself some patience pants. You are on the right track and this is a great group of people with a wealth of information.

Karen

 

[Deb & Wink]

To order your patience pants, please tell me your favorite color. My patience pants lending closet is jam packed full. In fact, after we send you your very own patience pants, please keep them. The closet could use a good cleanout. We will get them to you ASAP, after receiving the requested information. ;-)

 

[GregFurBall]

Thanks Deb. I just am not that crafty to post the patience pants. I was hoping you would come along and help out. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Karen

 

[Lkldcatlady]

1. If ideal weight is 12 pounds, 12 * 15 calories per pound = 180 + 70 = 250 calories per day for a normal cat. Non-regulated diabetic cats can require up to 50% more sot 250 + 50% = 375 calories per day. An average 5.5 oz can of Friskies pate has 180 calories so 2 5.5 oz cans a day.

We can adjust up or down as this progresses.

2. You can still use the timed feeder for the canned food. Mix about 1 Tablespoon of water into the food to keep it from drying out. Some cats like the extra water mixed in and eat the wet food better. Think thick applesauce consistency to soupy consistency.

Also, you can freeze portions of canned food and leave them out to thaw. He can nibble on them as they thaw. Well, maybe after he decides he likes canned food he will start to nibble them.

Okay, Deb - I'm going to try this again! I'm scared because it hasn't worked out in the past. I never tried mixing the water so I will try that. I had a friend who actually threw it in a BUllet and made it really soupy and the cat loved it. Maybe I'll try that....So what do I do if I can get him to actually eat it? just not give him any dry food at all?

I read your post about the challenges you have had getting Bob to transition food. My heart goes to you. I think our big boy was just not feeling well that once we started insulin and changed food, he basically went from dry to canned to raw in about 2 weeks. So blessed were we (and yes, very uninformed as we were not told about the impact getting off dry could have on his BG AND we were not told how to test...hence, finding this board saved us a lot of potential struggles). Anyway, what I wanted to let you know is that you do not have to grind your own raw food. We use Nature's Variety Instinct Raw and it is already prepared, frozen. All you have to do is unthaw and feed. We like to add water and make it a soupy mess and Fur Ball loves it. Just wanted to give you another suggestion, if you aren't already feeling overwhelmed by all the other suggestions.

Oh yes, be very thankful because Bob is a mess! He looks at me like I'm trying to poison him and then I feel like a bad mom and throw him some dry food. ohmygod_smile I'll look to see if I can find the Nature's Variety. So, there's no down side of the raw? Does it give them gastro problems at first or anything? They can't get any heebie jeebies from it, right?

To order your patience pants, please tell me your favorite color. My patience pants lending closet is jam packed full. In fact, after we send you your very own patience pants, please keep them. The closet could use a good cleanout. We will get them to you ASAP, after receiving the requested information.

Deb - my favorite color is BLUE! Please, please find me several pair.

 

[Deb & Wink]

So what do I do if I can get him to actually eat it? just not give him any dry food at all?

If he eats the canned, at least 1/3-1/2 of a 5.5 ounce can, then you should be able to go ahead and give him the insulin. I'd prefer if he ate 1/2 a can but that will probably be too much to hope for this first time.

Not too many people are successful trying to do the food switch cold turkey. I think Bob is going to be stubborn just like Wink was and take his sweet time to switch to wet food.

If he does not eat the wet, we will try a slower transition. That is better digestive wise anyway.

Remember that transition plan I gave you for switching from one dry food to another? Just use the quantities in that to give him the same proportions, replacing the EVO side with the wet.

If you free feed now, you need to get him on a feeding schedule. We need to make his natural hunger part of the process to get him to try something new. We don't want to force this. We will take it slow and easy.

Start with the wet food only and leave him for 30 minutes or so. See how much he has eaten if any.

ETA: Oops! Forgot the patience pants. Casual tie waist, light weight for summer.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

There are some tricks with transitioning.

You can replace a bit of the dry with canned and mix it together. It's probably easiest if you smash some of the dry and mix it with the canned and leave some of the larger kibble, as well. Gradually, shift the combination of dry vs. wet until you have Bob on a canned diet. Do not try to rush the process. Cats are creatures of habit and they like their routines.

Pulverizing dry and sprinkling it on the canned food will make it smell more like dry and it can be an enticement.

Dr. Lisa has a great article on transitioning a cat to canned food.

Switching to any new diet can effect the GI system. I did an "all at one time" switch to raw. Gabby had diarrhea for about a week and then everything went back to normal. If I had been more gradual with the transition, I doubt there would have been any problem whatsoever.