6/26 Simon | AMPS 346 +5 351 PMPS 369 +2 402

Daniel and Simon

Daniel and Simon

Member Since 2026
6/25 | AMPS 389 +3 290 +5.75 195 +9.5 163 PMPS 167 +2.75 240

Woke up at 4am to Simon chewing on the iphone cable hanging from my nightstand - chewing wires was one of his favorite activities when he was a kitten.
Woke up this morning to Simon glaring at me, a mouse toy at his feet. He plays fetch like a dog.
I guess he's feeling fine. Now I've got to learn more about bounces.
 
Glad Simon is feeling cheeky. Bounces can happen when the kitty goes down too quickly or hits a lower BG they aren’t used to. You want to watch for downward movement through a cycle, where numbers come down, that often shows a bounce breaking like on am cycle of June 21st. Hoping without skips, you’ll be seeing less black numbers as well.

From the basics sticky:

Bouncing - is simply a reaction to what the cat's system perceives as a BG value that is "too low". "too low" is relative. If a cat is used to BG in the 200s, 300s or higher for a long time, then even a BG of 150 can trigger a "bounce". Bouncing can also be triggered if the BG drops too low and/or too fast. The pancreas, then the liver release glucogon, glycogen and counter-regulatory hormones. The end result is a dumping of "sugar" into the bloodstream. *Usually* bounces clear within 3 days (6 cycles).

Keep working that 3u, Simon, and stay away from those cables :rolleyes:!
 
So even though a bounce usually lasts 3 days, I should still test throughout the day just in case? Or should I give him a little break from testing?
I've finally stocked up on multiple bottles of test strips and Simon and I have gotten better at the testing routine, so I feel pretty comfortable testing him more frequently now.
 
Some cats can break bounces sooner, and not always consistently the same pattern of # of cycles in a bounce. From what I see, even Simon with his sporadic skipped shots lately has a pattern of 2-4 cycles. The tests in between can keep you out of trouble in a few ways. It gives you an indication that he is having an active cycle or not, plus could provide an early warning of a bounce breaking so that you don’t keep getting surprised at preshot.
 
Even catching a +2 often helps to see if there is going to be some further action, since for most cats, generally speaking with Lantus, onset is around +2. If you find it’s much lower than preshot, then it is wise to pay closer attention with additional tests. Last night, when it was higher, you can often expect he won’t be getting up to much.
 
Flat is fine, still in the midst of a bounce, which means no shenigans just yet, and no need to test again until preshot. Save those test strips for when you really need them. He may need a few more cycles yet before he clears the bounce. As you may have seen with a few other kitties and caregivers, this is where patience is required ;). Still do your preshot and +2 or a before bed test like you did last night, since some kitties also like to be more active at night, so it’s a good habit to get into so he doesn’t give you any surprises.

Are you still more comfortable for now following SLGS, or would you like perhaps to think a little about TR? Now that you are getting more able to test in between preshots, that is something to think about. If you have any questions about TR, I am sure we can help you along if you’d like.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Flat is fine, still in the midst of a bounce, which means no shenigans just yet, and no need to test again until preshot. Save those test strips for when you really need them. He may need a few more cycles yet before he clears the bounce. As you may have seen with a few other kitties and caregivers, this is where patience is required ;). Still do your preshot and +2 or a before bed test like you did last night, since some kitties also like to be more active at night, so it’s a good habit to get into so he doesn’t give you any surprises.

Are you still more comfortable for now following SLGS, or would you like perhaps to think a little about TR? Now that you are getting more able to test in between preshots, that is something to think about. If you have any questions about TR, I am sure we can help you along if you’d like.
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I am definitely interested in TR. I wanted to try TR when Simon was first diagnosed, but at the time he was not cooperating with the ear tests. My other concern is my erratic summer schedule. Right now I'm taking care of a three year old (a very very clingy and mischievous three year old I might add 🤪). If TR is a more aggressive regimen, is there a higher risk of hypo situations? I can just picture rushing between checking on Simon at low levels and making sure my toddler isn't destroying something in the other room 😵‍💫
 
Daniel and Simon said:
I am definitely interested in TR. I wanted to try TR when Simon was first diagnosed, but at the time he was not cooperating with the ear tests. My other concern is my erratic summer schedule. Right now I'm taking care of a three year old (a very very clingy and mischievous three year old I might add 🤪). If TR is a more aggressive regimen, is there a higher risk of hypo situations? I can just picture rushing between checking on Simon at low levels and making sure my toddler isn't destroying something in the other room 😵‍💫
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Sorry to bump this condo but saw you didn’t get an answer. I’m new just like you, but I tried to do SLGS then switched to TR when I saw how many kitties use TR.
Using my logic only, I would think both have the same chance of hypo because the body is getting increases regardless, it’s just how fast the increases come.

I would think you test enough and post often enough for TR, but someone with more experience may weigh in later today.

Also, good luck with the 3 year old! If they and Simon get along, maybe you could involve the 3 yo with Simon’s ear pokes as a “Simon is scared and needs you here to be brave!” type thing.
Hope you have a good day! 🙂
 
Daniel and Simon said:
I am definitely interested in TR. I wanted to try TR when Simon was first diagnosed, but at the time he was not cooperating with the ear tests. My other concern is my erratic summer schedule. Right now I'm taking care of a three year old (a very very clingy and mischievous three year old I might add 🤪). If TR is a more aggressive regimen, is there a higher risk of hypo situations? I can just picture rushing between checking on Simon at low levels and making sure my toddler isn't destroying something in the other room 😵‍💫
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Hi Daniel, With TR, you are able to hold a dose longer because the reduction point is below 50 (for newly diagnosed cats like Simon). The earned reduction point on SLGS is below 90. So you'll take an earned reduction at a much lower point with TR, allowing you to remain at that dose longer. You're also able to take dose increases more frequently than you can with SLGS. It is a more aggressive method of dosing, but it also has some scientific research behind it that shows it can get kitties into remission. The goal in treating FD is numbers below 100, if possible, as that's below the renal threshold. I wouldn't worry about lower numbers that might need to be food influenced at this point. I see on Simon's spreadsheet that he had a run of numbers that took him down into the 50s. I see that you did exactly what you were supposed to do--fed him some food that boosted his bg. I know those experiences can be scary, though--at least they were for me when I first began treating Jude. Over time, as you begin experiencing lower numbers--and, again, that is the goal--you'll become skilled in both using food to manipulate those numbers and keep Simon in a safe range but also you'll become more familiar with Simon's patterns, learning when he typically goes low, when his nadir is, etc. In sum, cats can have lower numbers with both dosing methods, but because TR is more aggressive with the reduction point and the speed with which you can increase, you'll likely (likely) see lower numbers sooner than you will with SLGS. Jude followed SLGS to begin with, but when we switched to TR, we saw much better numbers, generally speaking. You can see on his spreadsheet when we switched at the end of 2024; his numbers became much more regulated about two months into 2025. If you decide to follow TR and don't like it, you can always switch back to SLGS.

One other thing I'll mention is this. If it were me, and my cat were experiencing bounces like Simon, I would try to grab a few more p.m. cycle tests to see what's happening. You have a few p.m. +6s, but there is a whole gap out there that is untested (post +6), and you really don't know for sure what Simon is doing. In his a.m. cycle, Simon generally goes up after his nadir, and he hits his nadir usually before +6 or right at, but sometimes cats do different things in the p.m. cycle as compared to the a.m. I'm going to tag @Christie & Maverick here on this because she is much more experienced than I am, and she might disagree with me. I'd rather you not poke, if she thinks it's unnecessary.
 
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Sorry, been having some troubles with my elderly father, and today’s visit with him didn’t go well. I need to feed my fur crew, then read through the condo and I can offer some thoughts in addition to what Mary and others have noted, so I will be back. One quick comment though, with TR and pet meter, the reduction point is 68, otherwise 90 for either SLGS and TR.
 
So sorry to hear about your father, Christie. I appreciate you taking time to respond, and no worries about responding right away.

The more I read about TR and from everyone's comments, I think it's something I could do. Like I mentioned before, Simon is much more tolerating of the ear poking recently. I have some travel soon where Simon can't come with me (he'll be boarding at the vet), so I could give it a shot in a few weeks.
Simon is pretty terrified of my toddler (she's very high energy and no sitting still ever right now). That would be great if she could eventually help or sit still long enough to observe the process without startling Simon, but we're probably a little off from that.

Thanks again everyone, I'll probably have some more TR questions next time I post!
 
Oh poor Simon, I can imagine how a 3 year old can be a bit…over the top energy for a chill cat like Simon. So a few things perhaps just for clarity. Yes, TR is a more aggressive dosing method in that 1) it offers the caregiver (CG) the opportunity to increase as soon as after six cycles depending on the nadirs, whereas SLGS would require holding the particular dose for 7 days before considering an increase. And, 2) different reduction points, 68 with AT3, and following TR vs. 90 when following SLGS.

IMHO, neither has any increased chance of symptomic hypo, as long as the CG follows the dosing methods, both of which have safety measure built in.

For Simon, the issue had been some aspects of reduced dosing, skips, bouncing and such, and not easy to determine how much to attribute to the bouncing vs. Numbers affected by skips. Each skip and/or reduced shot disturbs the depot some.

Simon’s lower numbers am cycle June 14th is more likely a function of overfull depot and not having pm cycle tests, although I am just speculating.

The goals depend on the CG. With SLGS you would be looking to achieve nadirs between 90-149 mg/dl on a human meter. That will likely involve higher preshots by default. With TR the intent is to have BG that consistently fall in normal numbers, ie. more greens. What goals do you have for Simon?

A point of clarification, renal threshold (the point at which glucose spills into the urine) as measured by lab values is typically when BG is around 200 mg/dl to 280 mg/dL depending on the source of information (Merck Manual reflected the high end) so with human meters, renal threshold is likely not as low as 100 mg/dL.

You often won’t see a discernible nadir in a bounce, so testing multiple times midcycle often in a bounce doesn’t glean much. If he decides to break his bounce tomorrow, you will see downward movement.
 
Thanks for that clarification, Christie, about renal threshold. I was relying on Wendy's explanation (posted below), and she clearly supports your point that numbers below 200 are below renal threshold. I misunderstood and should have used the term "healing numbers." That's where I want Jude to be: in healing numbers.
Wendy&Neko said:
We typically call under 100 the healing numbers. Around 200 (actual number depends on the cat) or below is the renal threshold, where kitty's kidneys have to work extra hard to clear extra sugar out of the blood. It is still a good goal by itself.
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