? 6/25 Ty - PMPS 116 - HELP...Should I shoot??? & Questions about numbers and feedings

CCG

CCG

Member Since 2019
Hi all,

I posted almost two weeks ago now about my cat, Ty - aka Fuzzy. At the time he had just come back from the hospital (DKA #2), had ketones several days after coming home, and eventually started to refuse to eat. Long story short, Ty has fully recovered from that incident and things have returned to normal. Normal eating, normal-to-high! energy levels. A very happy kitteh.

The only thing that hasn't returned to normal is his blood sugar, of course :confused:.
Now that we're getting back into a more stable routine, I find myself having lots of questions about how to best care for him.

1. Eating times. Have been told by vet that ideally meals are spaced 12 hrs apart with no big snacks in between. I understand this is ideal for tracking his BG, but it is really not ideal for us otherwise.
For one, Fuzzy has always been a grazer and gets stressed when he doesn't have food available. We have an autofeeder that keeps wet food safe to eat for a few hours, so I have been leaving that out for him and he eats it all in the AM. When I am home he begs for food every ~1-2 hours. This clearly makes it difficult for me to track his BG, but I don't want to NOT feed him because he lost so much weight recently, and because he is ketone-prone. What is the best way to handle this?

2. Bounces and dosing. We've gotten into this not-so-great cycle where he gets into better BG ranges, and then his BG is low enough that I get worried about giving him a full U of insulin (eg - 6/21/2019). I was being especially cautious over the last week because he was refusing to eat much of his usual food. Now the eating is not an issue. Could 1U BID be too much for Fuzz?
 
Hi CCG :),
Regarding your first question... feeding.
Food given twice or three times daily (with snacks in between) should be kept when starting to stabilize a diabetic cat... even kitties stabilized are best managed with this routine- as long as no kibbles/dry, obese or high carb wet.
Sadly, many vets are not skilled in the (correct) treatment of FD.
THIS BOARD IS AMAZING. Full of experience & knowledge, at minimum. We are lucky, we are here.
Nelli (& sooooo many other kitties) would not be alive- Nelli happy at 20 and well regulated today, if it wasn’t for me stumbling upon F$MB. I can’t say enough.

Dosing...
It’s very important to keep same dose every 12 hours. On June 21 you’re dropped from one unit to .25 units-was not only unnecessary, unwarranted it’s not a good thing to do. Why? o_O... I am sure more “dose experienced” peeps here will chime in.
If I see you haven’t gotten much of a response to this I will tag some people for you in the morning :)

You are doing a great job with testing lately, as frequently as you are! This is so important. Why? Because it will help you regulate Ty the best. When a CG isnt testing at night for example, only during the day they are missing so many potentially low numbers that again at minimum would warrant a decrease ;) :cat:

Keep us informed of how you and Ty are doing, let him eat often (unless overweight :confused:, keep getting those test and... ask, ask, ask about dosing (increase? Decrease?) whenever you are unsure :bighug:
I am hitting the rack now will be up early tomorrow and check in on your condo. Everything is going to be OK, you’ll see :bighug: :cat:
 
Krystina & Nelli said:
Hi CCG :),
Regarding your first question... feeding.
Food given twice or three times daily (with snacks in between) should be kept when starting to stabilize a diabetic cat... even kitties stabilized are best managed with this routine- as long as no kibbles/dry, obese or high carb wet.
Sadly, many vets are not skilled in the (correct) treatment of FD.
THIS BOARD IS AMAZING. Full of experience & knowledge, at minimum. We are lucky, we are here.
Nelli (& sooooo many other kitties) would not be alive- Nelli happy at 20 and well regulated today, if it wasn’t for me stumbling upon F$MB. I can’t say enough.
Click to expand...

Thank you! Yes, it really is amazing. Everyone on here helped me save Ty's life two weeks ago. He had ketones again and with the money we had spent, we simply could not afford to take him back to have him treated again. Luckily we caught ketones early and with everyone's advice we were able to get him back on track.

Krystina & Nelli said:
Dosing...
It’s very important to keep same dose every 12 hours. On June 21 you’re dropped from one unit to .25 units-was not only unnecessary, unwarranted it’s not a good thing to do. Why? o_O... I am sure more “dose experienced” peeps here will chime in.
If I see you haven’t gotten much of a response to this I will tag some people for you in the morning :)
Click to expand...

Yes, in hindsight it seems unnecessary. But at the time I panicked a little, because he still wasn't eating as much as usual. I was syringe feeding him for awhile, and it took him awhile to get back into his typical food. On 6/21 he was still being really finicky about what he would eat, and with a number as low as 75 I was really nervous. I couldn't watch him overnight that night so I took the conservative route.

Even tonight we are on track for something similar - he is at 104 +11 AMPS. Still have to test PMPS, but that number makes me nervous to give a full dose :nailbiting:. I have struggled to know what to do in these situations bc he has been so unregulated! But then he bounces right back when I don't give him much. Eek!

Krystina & Nelli said:
You are doing a great job with testing lately, as frequently as you are! This is so important. Why? Because it will help you regulate Ty the best. When a CG isnt testing at night for example, only during the day they are missing so many potentially low numbers that again at minimum would warrant a decrease ;) :cat:

Keep us informed of how you and Ty are doing, let him eat often (unless overweight :confused:, keep getting those test and... ask, ask, ask about dosing (increase? Decrease?) whenever you are unsure :bighug:
I am hitting the rack now will be up early tomorrow and check in on your condo. Everything is going to be OK, you’ll see :bighug: :cat:
Click to expand...

Yes - trying to test as much as possible!! I wish I could test more in the evening... After waking up every 1-3 hours for 8 days straight and not sleeping during the day, I needed my own R&R. But agreed, that makes it hard to tell what he needs :(

And thank you!!!!
 
I understand everything you are saying, truly.
If you get scared to shoot regular dose and no one is around to help advise you... I would have done same on 6/21.
OMG, sleep deprivation :eek: at times?!?
You really are doing a great job, it’s not easy- God knows and I know Its. Not. Easy. not easy but worth it, right?!
 
Changed title. I am giving him a little extra time to eat because he is still going. So still have a little bit of time.
Plus I am still feeling a little chicken... it is going to be a long night because I will definitely be up checking on him!
 
I agree. Shoot as long as you can monitor. Often shooting low leads to a flat cycle. You can steer with food if he drops. I’d grab a +1 and +2. I fed Max several small meals and tried to stop around +6 unless he was still not at a safe level.
 
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Many peeps have grazers here. Let them be grazers if that is what how they ear. Lantus is a gentle insulin, it doesn’t need all the food at once like the older insulins did.

Can you monitor tonight? Do you have plenty of test strips and high carb food? With recent DKA, you really do want to get insulin into him.
 
Thanks all.
We are fully prepared for hypo -- lots of test strips, corn syrup/honey/high carb food -- if issues arise.
I did give him a full dose tonight (well, if I'm being honest I gave him a littleeeeee less than a full dose. but barely) and will monitor.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Often shooting low leads to a flat cycle.
Click to expand...
You must be scared to death... I can only imagine. You got good advice from very capable peeps last night:). (I’ve not been through a DKA event.) Trust. You will get to trust certain peeps advice.
“?, Recent DKA and HELP”in your title will get attention quickly- if and when a skilled veteran comes on.
 
Thank you, all. Not surprisingly, you were correct!
I had a very sleepless night, but Ty was totally fine. If anything, his #s have bounced back up and are now much too high :(. But he was not at risk for hypo at all.

We can't seem to keep him flat... hopefully we figure it out soon!!
 
CCG said:
Thank you! Yes, it really is amazing. Everyone on here helped me save Ty's life two weeks ago. He had ketones again and with the money we had spent, we simply could not afford to take him back to have him treated again. Luckily we caught ketones early and with everyone's advice we were able to get him back on track.



Yes, in hindsight it seems unnecessary. But at the time I panicked a little, because he still wasn't eating as much as usual. I was syringe feeding him for awhile, and it took him awhile to get back into his typical food. On 6/21 he was still being really finicky about what he would eat, and with a number as low as 75 I was really nervous. I couldn't watch him overnight that night so I took the conservative route.

Even tonight we are on track for something similar - he is at 104 +11 AMPS. Still have to test PMPS, but that number makes me nervous to give a full dose :nailbiting:. I have struggled to know what to do in these situations bc he has been so unregulated! But then he bounces right back when I don't give him much. Eek!



Yes - trying to test as much as possible!! I wish I could test more in the evening... After waking up every 1-3 hours for 8 days straight and not sleeping during the day, I needed my own R&R. But agreed, that makes it hard to tell what he needs :(

And thank you!!!!
Click to expand...
Hi Ty! I am trying to decide what to do when I see lower numbers too. The protocol information does give the option of giving a token dose when bg is lower than 200 when you don’t know how your cat will respond so maybe that’s something you had in the back of your mind.

I also know lots of people feed small meals with Lantus, since it’s so long acting. My vet said I could free feed or give small meals, which was a relief to both me and Jackson. He’s underweight. He actually gets better bg levels and a flatter curve with more meals. Good luck and keep reading! Find out what works for Ty.
 
Margie and Jackson said:
Hi Ty! I am trying to decide what to do when I see lower numbers too. The protocol information does give the option of giving a token dose when bg is lower than 200 when you don’t know how your cat will respond so maybe that’s something you had in the back of your mind.

I also know lots of people feed small meals with Lantus, since it’s so long acting. My vet said I could free feed or give small meals, which was a relief to both me and Jackson. He’s underweight. He actually gets better bg levels and a flatter curve with more meals. Good luck and keep reading! Find out what works for Ty.
Click to expand...
That is something I had in mind. I think I now know how he responds.
Thanks for the info. about small meals... it makes me feel much better. Ty is hungry every couple of hours and I don't want to deprive him, esp. when he is underweight and has had a history of DKA.
 
If he is in the 500s at PMPS and you are just wanting to collect data, I completely understand, but you could probably spare both yourself and Ty a little testing, 500s/black is so high you probably don’t need a test each hour for the first three. You could try a +2 maybe next time numbers are running that high. :)
Just an option for a bit of a break. I tested a LOT early on in particular.... and I don’t regret having data. I do sometimes feel a little frown-y about Alice’s ears though!
 
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AliceMeowliss&Cassandra said:
If he is in the 500s at PMPS and you are just wanting to collect data, I completely understand, but you could probably spare both yourself and Ty a little testing, 500s/black is so high you probably don’t need a test each hour for the first three. You could try a +2 maybe next time numbers are running that high. :)
Just an option for a bit of a break. I tested a LOT early on in particular.... and I don’t regret having data. I do sometimes feel a little frown-y about Alice’s ears though!
Click to expand...
That makes total sense! I kept doing it because I wanted to see it go down, haha!
He is really good about letting me prick him - if I sit on the floor he comes over to sit on my lap and doesn't move a muscle or try to walk away (even with no restraint) until I'm done. But just because it is easy doesn't mean it makes sense to do it :)
 
CCG said:
That makes total sense! I kept doing it because I wanted to see it go down, haha!
He is really good about letting me prick him - if I sit on the floor he comes over to sit on my lap and doesn't move a muscle or try to walk away (even with no restraint) until I'm done. But just because it is easy doesn't mean it makes sense to do it :)
Click to expand...
Alice is pretty easy for me too now, and yeah, I am sure I test more freqneutnly than many, but she nearly died on me. I do like checking in.

Over time I learned though where her patterns were enough to know she wouldn’t drop that fast, and also I had some nudges from others so that I could decide when I’ve tested enough.... other times I think, darn, wish I’d gotten +xx in! But either way, kitty is still here with me, and things are okay, and that is the goal. To help our cats live out as much more of their lives healthy and happy as they can. :)

Think of it though like you can sit and watch the pot waiting for it to boil.... or do something else for a bit and set yourself free of the worry, trusting that heat will do what heat does to the molecules in water, as always, and when you come back, you will have water boiling. Or..... kitty will have worked out their own glucose high, even if you don’t watch this one like a hawk. Cats are so resilient sometimes. They figure themselves out; we just help them along. :)
 
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