6/23 Pepper PMPS 160

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Nancy&Pepper (GA)

Member Since 2012
yesterday

Back to our old familiar routine. We are tired but happy to be home, although I think Pepper kind of enjoyed living at the hotel with two women giving him all their attention and pampering him 24/7. Our last night at the hotel Pepper slept half the night snuggled up to me and half the night snuggled up to my sister.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256

Hi, Nancy! Welcome home!!
I hope you guys can get some rest today.
Scritches to Pepper ~ what a trooper!
:YMHUG:
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, Yikes!

Pepper is 28 @ +6! He's never been this low before - I fed him about 2 teaspoons HC. What else should I be doing??? No symptoms at all.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, Yikes!

Give him a few good sized drops of karo and test again 30 minutes after he ate.

Yeah for SRT - that's quick. :shock:
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, Yikes!

Hi Nancy - oh what fun! a 28! I'd retest in 20 minutes, feed another tsp if needed then, and repeat this until the Numbers rise. You may want to add a drop of karo if he continues to stay so low.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, Yikes!

Either will work. I just added it to LC/HC. Some kitties will lick it off the finger.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, +6.25 40

You could try some more gravy. I usually use karo if Neko is below 40 and I don't think she's at nadir yet. Karo is a quick boost up but doesn't last as long as HC. We'd really like Pepper to be well into the 50's.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, +6.25 40

same for me, either on the finger or int he food. usually it was in the food. If this were me i'd feed that 40, test again in 15/20 minutes. If the numbers haven't budge much try a drop of karo. I agree with what Wendy wrote.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, +6.25 40

Funnily enough, today I was going to try to put some thoughts together for you on possible dose reduction strategies. I'll do that later once Pepper is at a better number.

But one suggestion for tonight, I think you should do a BCS, possibly half his dose, so you can drain the shed. We'll see what his numbers are end of cycle, maybe it's a skip. I'm staring at Pepper's SS trying to suggest what to shoot tomorrow. With the missed shots, half shots for SRT, anesthesia, etc. I'm not sure what dose the shed thinks it's at today. Whatever it is, definitely deduction earned!
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, +6.25 40, +6.5 67

I think you should hold off on food for a while now. I find HC lasts two hours in Neko, do you know how long it lasts in Pepper? Sometimes the numbers will start heading down again after the HC has worn off so you'll need to keep testing until the numbers start rising without the influence of HC. For Neko that means testing 2 hours after the last HC and then another to make sure the trend continues, unless she climbs aboard the rocket ship.

I've done enough testing with Neko, that I know I can go an hour at this point without testing. If you aren't sure, I'd test in 1/2 hour, then if Pepper is about the same or higher, testing again an hour after that. That'll take you past the effects of HC and see if he is coming up on his own. With that 28, Pepper's liver might help raise the numbers for you.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, +6.25 40, +6.5 67

Just saw your last question. I wouldn't feed LC at this point. With an acrocat, LC can cause the pancreas to kick in and provide more insulin to drag down the numbers. At some point, you might want to try an experiment with MC. I tried 8% once and it got the pancreas working so did the opposite of what I wanted. I still have to try an experiment with something higher carb but not quite gravy lovers. Tracking how much you feed and the effect is a good tool to have. I know that 1 tsp HC gives me about 20 points for 2 hours. Each acrocat is different, you'll have to see what works for Pepper.

Good job today, time to relax a little. Whew! I've never seen 20's, 30's was bad enough. :o
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, +6.25 40, +6.5 67

Thanks Wendy. You are so knowledgeable I'm just amazed all the time! I don't know how long HC lasts in Pepper - I've used it maybe twice. I'll test again in 5 minutes - that will be 1/2 hour after he last ate a bit.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, +6.25 40, +6.5 67

Hi Nancy!!!

Yikes on the 28! I'm glad to see Pepper's in some better greens!!!

Have a great week :-D :-D :-D
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, +6.25 40, +6.5 67

When you've come down the scale as much as me, you'll be knowledgeable too. Neko does so many of her deductions at night, that I am really motivated to know what I can get away with so I can get back to sleep. :lol: I track when I use HC and how much in both my log book at the spreadsheet.

I bought a case of Gravy Lovers when we were in Fort Collins, and are over half way through the case now. I've used HC a fair bit. :-D Sometimes I even use it to raise her just enough so I can go to sleep.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, +6.25 40, +6.5 67, +7.25 87

Now we are 87. I'll test again in an hour. Thanks for your help, Wendy! And I can certainly use some advice about dose reduction strategies!
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, +6.25 40, +6.5 67

Hi Nancy - you've done great, and are in quite capable hands with Wendy - she knows what's she's doing. With my kitty I'd test every 30 minutes (just me being me), and adjust foods accordingly until he was at a safer numbers, like the 80's/90's. We started with HC (with a low like you had), worked our way down to LC and then let him surf. At that point it was also testing every hour for me to make sure he didn't dive again. Mannie had a tendency to do that, so I ended up testing alot. For Mannie the HC lasted maybe an hour, an hour and a half. Good luck, I'll try and check back later, when I'm back home.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper AMPS 256, +6 28, +6.25 40, +6.5 67, +7.25 87

Good thoughts by Michelle above on frequency on testing. You have to learn how often you have to test Pepper to keep a handle on the numbers. I tested more frequently at first, until I figured out when I needed to test. From the latest test, looks like you are getting around 1.5-2 hours from HC and it wore off. Next time this happens, test 1.5 hours after the last HC and then 2 hours after and that'll narrow it down for you. Although where you are in relation to the nadir also can impact things.

OK - about deductions. First I'm going to quote something Julie/Punkin posted in Tiggy's 5/13 condo:
It's also important to have a strategy for decreasing doses. the tactic i have used if i thought he needed a dose decrease is to drop the dose significantly for one dose to allow the shed to drain some, then return to a slightly decreased dose with the subsequent shot. So if he was at 10u and hitting too low, I would give the next shot at 7u and the following shot come back up to 9 or 9.5, something like that. my husband and i have laughingly named this strategy "Dialing for Doses" because sometimes you are just making the best decision you can make. :lol: it is very important to understand the shed action of the lantus/lev insulins. when you decrease the dose you can still see effects from the original dose for several cycles after the decrease. it seemed to us that doing a significant reduction on that first reduced dose helped to keep the next cycle from dropping too low. In my previous example, if he was getting 10u dose in the morning and hit a 30, and i decreased to 9.5u that evening, i would almost guarantee i'd see a 30 again that pm cycle. that's not enough of a reduction to prevent it.
I agree with the idea of allowing the shed to drain. Although I only did it once, we were at a smaller dose than Pepper, and I often did have an active cycle or two after a reduction. But I also wanted to keep Neko in green more because she bounces more if I don't. After SRT, we started doing a bunch of deductions. At one point it felt like running in front of a freight train going down. I was sometimes doing 2 deductions a week. It was scary the first little while, until I figured out a strategy. I started going down by .5 unit deductions, but we were just under 10 units. I did .5 unit deductions until 3.5 units but in hindsight should have moved to .25 unit deductions around 4/5 units. You'll notice the size of the deductions are the same as what the protocol recommends increasing at that level of units.

The next thing to consider is at what point to reduce. Dr. TImian recommended reductions when we went below 70, which is what I did for the first little while instead of waiting until under 50. It gave me a margin of error. This is off TR protocol (and half way to the SLGS protocol) but if you are reducing fast, just felt a little safer. When the reductions rate slowed down, at around 5 units, we went to waiting to go under 50. The other thing to consider is the numbers you are seeing. If Pepper throws you a number in the 20's, you might reduce a little more than if he is in the 40's. I think of it as the cat telling you what he thinks about that dose. It's OK to be conservative and reduce more, you can always go back up if you need to. You should know within 6-8 cycles if you made the right decision, or he could decide it's time for another reduction. :lol:

Not everyone does reductions right away after SRT. Some cats have had to go up for a while before going down. It's also not all about going down. Sometimes you plateau. In the fall, we were at about the same dose for several months. Sometimes we have to increase to get into good numbers again. It's all about following the life and death of the tumor cells and learning what works for Pepper. Take good notes. You are now doing a science experiment. :cool: Take a look at other acrocat SS's, they might give you some ideas to incorporate into your strategy for Pepper.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper +6 28, +7.25 87, +8.25 55, + 8.75 59

Nancy, you are doing a great job! Wow, the SRT worked!! Wendy is a terrific resource. I know with her help you'll be able to figure out what works for Pepper.

Have a good evening. I hope you'll be able to get some rest!

Hugs and scritches,

Ella & Rusty

p.s. Welcome Home!
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper +6 28, +7.25 87, +8.25 55, + 8.75 59

What did you feed at 8.25 - HC? (enter gentle hint about updating your SS so we don't have to go back through today's condo to figure out what you did). To answer the question on feeding, try going 1/2 hour without. He may be surfing. Neko once surfed 3 hours at 53. :shock: You don't want to feed past +10, so waiting 1/2 hour gives you a chance to feed again if you need.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper +6 28, +7.25 87, + 8.75 59, +10 145

Sorry, Wendy. I know I should be updating the SS as I go. I've been desperately trying to pot up some rose cuttings before dark in between testing and feeding Pepper. Happily, Pepper has started to rise. I'll update the SS as soon as possible. Oh, I fed HC at 8.25.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper +6 28, +7.25 87, + 8.75 59, +10 145

I've been keeping up from the sidelines. Your in good hands with Wendy ;-)
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper +11.5 151 - dose advice?

I thought that's what Wendy said to do, but now I don't see it in her posts. I think that's a smart thing to do to deplete his depot a little.

Have a good night.
 
Re: 6/23 Pepper +11.5 151 - dose advice?

I did say 1/2 dose. I was thinking possible skip if he was still in the greens. Even if you do 1/2 dose, the first part of the cycle could be an active one. What do you think Nancy?
 
I went with the half dose. Thank you for all the info on reductions! I'm going to buy myself a case of Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers tomorrow!
 
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