6/23 Doogle PMPS 359 +3 259 +10 465 AMPS 385 +3 348

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Donna & Doogle

Donna & Doogle

Member Since 2011
Ok, I am going to assume I need to be in the tight regulation forum. This is my first time to post. Doogle is on 2.0 Units (vet wanted 3). We started on it early in the morning (1am central time US). So far so good....except for the mess up on food that the husband fed him on accident. Wasnt able to get a +6 and a +9 after the PM shot but getting good numbers so far today. So am I doing this right?

Donna
 
Welcome to Lantus Land!

It looks like you had posted on the main, Health board. Here's your initial post so people stopping by can get up to speed.

A quick question first: How much of Humulin N were your giving?

Are you giving a shot twice a day or once a day? From Doogle's spreadsheet (SS) -- and great job getting it set up so quickly -- it looks like you are giving 2.0u once a day. In cats, Lantus is dosed twice a day. (In humans, it's a once a day shot but a cat's metabolism is about twice as fast as a human's.) If you are shooting twice a day, the dose goes in the "U" column (it stands for units) that is next to both the AMPS and PMPS columns. It's the columns that are in turquoise. If you are, in fact shooting once a day, I'd encourage you to consider shooting 1.0u twice a day, every 12 hours. Pick a time that works for your schedule.

Just so you are aware, if you use the Tight Regulation (TR) Protocol or if you decide that you prefer the Start Low Go Slow (SLGS) approach, you are more than welcome to post here. There are several people who are using SLGS and post on this Board. The TR board is big and we're busy. There's usually someone around almost 24/7 since we have members from all over the world who post here. It's rare that you would have to wait very long if you were in need of help or had a question. You don't need to make a firm commitment to which protocol you use right now. (Just remind us if you decide that you want to use SLGS since most people here do follow TR.)

If you haven't done so already, please take a look at the starred, sticky notes at the top of the board. There are significant differences between Humulin N and Lantus. It's going to take a bit of an adjustment to think about dosing that's based on nadir rather than pre-shot numbers. You'll also get far better duration from Lantus than from N and, as a result, you'll hopefully see less of a swing in Doogle's numbers by the end of the cycle. It also takes up to a week for Doogle's system to build an insulin depot. This is very different than N which is quick in and out of the system. Lantus builds up in the cat's system so that doses act in a cumulative manner and so you have overlap between doses. This is one of the big advantages of a long-acting type of insulin like Lantus.

Please let us know how we can help. The people here are wonderful and very generous with their time and their information, to say nothing of their support. I hope you'll post regularly and find a "home" in this community.
 
Thank you for the warm welcome! We were giving him 4 units twice a day (that was only for 3 weeks). I fixed the sheet to reflect the units during both the AMPS and the PMPS. I have read and reread the stickies and printed out a few of them to have on hand for those in my house that dont like to read on the internet. I am just not sure which protocol to go by: TR or SLGS. I will be sure to keep things updated the very best I can. :-D

Donna
 
If you have questions about either protocol, we're happy to help.

With SLGS, you should be aware that dose changes for Lantus are in 0.25u increments (not 0.5u -- that applies to other types of insulin). The biggest difference between the 2 approaches is that with TR, we evaluate the dose after 3 days whereas with SLGS, it's after a week. Without getting on my soapbox, in my opinion,the big advantages for TR is that is has veterinary research to support its use and it has an enviable track record for getting cats into good numbers, if not in remission. TR is a more aggressive approach to dosing but it balances safety with dosing. No one can tell you which approach is best for Doogle or is best for you. We really do believe that every cat is different (ECID) and you need to be able to fit Doogle's needs in with your lifestyle.

Like I said before, let us know how we can help.
 
Welcome to Lantus Land, Donna and Doogle! It's the greatest place you never wanted to be. :lol: :lol: We are all crazy about our cats though and Sienne is absolutely correct in telling you how generous and supportive everyone is here. So I hope you didn't scold your DH (dear husband) too much about the food. We all make mistakes. ;-)
Liz, Zener's other mom
 
Hi Donna!!

I'm glad you found it to Lantus Land!!! As Sienne said, we are a very close-knit community and we support each other in the sugardance and through life's joys and tribulations. There's almost always someone around to
help when you need it.

Is there any way at all to give us some idea of his numbers and dosing history on Humulin N? Did you keep any kind of spreadsheet that you can attach for us to see? If not, it's ok but it helps.

One thing that we find extremely helpful in helping you and Doogle is if we know something about Doogle....his history, his age, his meds, etc. We have many kitties here in LL and sometimes we need to access the information quickly
in order to help you when you need it. The Profile, linked to your signature, allows us to do that.

Here are the instructions for making a Profile: Creating a Profile

I know it seems there are a lot of steps but I broke them down to make it easy. Please PM me if you need any help with it. And we thank you for doing it for us. When you add it to your signature, IF you decide to use the SLGS protocol, that would also be a good place to put it in bold letters so we know right off the bat. If you are doing TR, you don't need to put anything in your signature block. Unless someone tells us otherwise, we assume they are doing TR.

After you read the Stickys or at any time, please let us know your questions and how we can best help you. We are happy to have you here no matter which protocol you follow but I am also a firm believer in the science behind the TR protocol and the results.
 
Sorry to be a pest, but...

Donna & Doogle said:
We were giving him 4 units twice a day (that was only for 3 weeks).
Click to expand...
Am I correct in assuming that this was with Humulin N? Do you remember what Doogle's test data looked like on that dose?

The reason I'm asking is that we try to take the dose on the previous insulin into account. I'd suggest that you get in a fair number of tests during this initial period. You'll note that with the TR protocol, it's suggested that you test at +3, +6 and +9 in addition to your pre-shot tests. (You don't need to do that over 24 hours, though.) For some cats, when they switch from another insulin to Lantus, they can have a marked response. I'd encourage you to be aware of that and if you're unsure what to do, please post. There are lots of people here who are very familiar with how to handle low numbers.

What are you currently feeding Doogle? Also, if you don't have high carb (over 15%) food in the house, I'd encourage you to get several cans. We use high carb food to steer numbers so it's good to have several cans on hand.
 
Yeah it was Humilin N. This was his last numbers before he was changed:
AMPS 450
+3 171
+6 254
+9 330
PMPS 484

We have been doing the +3+6+9 and pre shots for the past few weeks just to get an idea on how the Humilin N was working (which it wasnt). I have a couple of cans of high card that I bought on accident that I feed to the strays I take care of outside since the tornadoes hit in Janurary. So far things are looking good, his +6 reading was 273 which I would gather is the nadir/peak. I am going to call the vet and ask for a new prescription for syringes that have the .25 marks. I am just glad to have him on something other than Humilin N.

Donna
 
FYI -- the syringes are in 0.5u unit increments (not 0.25u). They don't manufacture syringes in anything smaller than half unit increments.

Also, as far as nadir -- it can move around. Or, some cats have early or late nadirs. My cat's nadir is at around +4 except on the days when it is much later -- it's been as late as +7 or +8 but Gabby typically has an early nadir. (And don't worry, once you think you have it figured out, Doogle will change things.)

Don't feel like you have to be wed to testing every 3 hours. Getting random spot checks is just as helpful. Spot checks fill in the gaps on your SS. The more you can vary when you test, once you have the data to tell you when onset and nadir are, the better.

FWIW, Gabby started on N. She was under the care of an internal medicine vet at an emergency care/ICU hospital who put her on N. Once we were back with my regular vet, her comment about N was that it's an excellent insulin for dogs -- not so much for cats.
 
Be sure the syringes are U100, .3cc with the half unit markings. Many of us use the 31g but 30g is fine, too. Depends on whether you like the long or short needles. The 31g don't come in long needles.
 
So how many times should I post his numbers? Just did a BG test at +10 and it was 318. Should I post everyday with a full day or when I do new tests? I dont want to be a pest or go overboard with the postings.

D
 
It's really up to you. Some people will post every test; some not. As long as the data's on your SS, it's fine. What I'd suggest is that in the beginning, you post all of your tests. You can edit out the AM data once it's PM so the string isn't overly long. (There's only a fixed amount of space in the subject line.) There are several of us who keep an eye on the Board. If we see numbers that we think warrant attention, we'll let you know. That way, you can get a handle on what it is that gets our attention. As you get more comfortable, you won't feel the need to post everything.
 
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