6/22 Eddie PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46, +4/50, +6/72

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Jen&Eddie

Jen&Eddie

Member Since 2013
Yesterday's Condo

YESTERDAY: AMPS/99, +2.5/37..30's/40's/50's/60's for several hours...+10/84, +11/102, PMPS/156, +1/274, +2/251, +4/190, +5/196, +6/164, +7/155, +11/96
TODAY: AMPS/141, +1/208, +2/239, +6/232, +11.5/186, PMPS/189, +2/66, +2.5/35/39 :shock:, +3/46, +3.5/52, +4/50, +4.5/62, +5/55, +6/72, +7/86, +8/146

Hi LL! Here we go again...

Eddie had an exciting run yesterday morning that caught me by surprise. His PM cycle was a bounce, but it wasn't all that bad, considering. He spiked at PM +1 and +2, then started sliding down. I actually managed to get up for a +11 alarm at 4:15 AM, and Eddie had cleared the bounce and hit a 96 by +11. He had a blue AM pre-shot this morning, after which I did get a +1 and +2. He had what appeared to be a Flat Yellow Cycle today in the low 200's today, which ended in the high 100's. I suspected he'd be bounce clearing tonight, which is excellent that he's clearing that fast.

So fast forward two hours to +2, and never mind that it's clear that a +1 now has to be part of our testing routine with Eddie...I slept through it tonight. ohmygod_smile DH informed me that Eddie's +2 is 66, so that's a 120 point drop before the insulin really should be onsetting. Holy cow! I expected a little momentum, but not like this. Eddie got second supper of MC foods to hopefully stop him from dropping further. A half hour later he's at 35/39! :shock: We're headed into what I imagine will be a long night.

I'm guessing the 30's are from momentum from bounce clearing, and also from the depot of 2.75. Can I continue to hold the 2.5u?

Sheesh Eddie! No need to be quite so dramatic about it! You're going to kill your mamabean here!

Last night Eddie was super snuggly and he slept in the crook of my arm, so all was forgiven with the million pokies. This morning he was very happy and cheerful, and he wanted to play cat-belly-trap when I came home at lunch time today.

Vines to all those who need them today!
 
Re: 6/22 AMPS 141, +6/232, PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46

If you just reduced the dose, there could be a depot effect helping cause the low numbers. I'm sure some more experienced people will be along to give you advice on holding the dose. I hope Eddie surfs safely for you tonight and isn't too hard to keep in higher greens.
 
Re: 6/22 AMPS 141, +6/232, PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46

It's possible there's some depot effect but I'm leaning toward suggesting you reduce Eddie's dose to 2.25u. When you're seeing numbers that are below 40, I like to pay close attention!!
 
Re: 6/22 AMPS 141, +6/232, PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46

Hi Carla! So nice to see you and Furball again! :-D :YMHUG:

This is only the third cycle after Eddie earned a reduction yesterday during the AM cycle. I would think there would be a decent sized depot with a dose of 2.75u, but maybe I'm wrong on that. I know the last time we went through this process, we did a handful of back-to-back reductions which looked like Eddie was holding at first, but then ultimately, we had to climb all the way back up the dosing scale over the last month and a half or so. So I'm reluctant to reduce too quickly. I do obviously have to change our testing routine. I used to get a +1 once in a while to see what Eddie's food spike looked like, but in the last week or so, when Eddie's not bouncing, he's sometimes not getting a food spike at all. That pattern is totally new to us. If his +1 is flat or lower than his pre-shot, I'm wondering if I may be able to slow him down some by feeding HC really, really early in the cycle.
 
Re: 6/22 AMPS 141, +6/232, PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46

Sienne and Gabby said:
It's possible there's some depot effect but I'm leaning toward suggesting you reduce Eddie's dose to 2.25u. When you're seeing numbers that are below 40, I like to pay close attention!!
Click to expand...

Hi Sienne!

I'm on the fence on this too. You are such a pro on reading SS's, if you have time, would you mind taking a look at Eddie's SS starting around May 25? We had a similar thing happen - suddenly hitting a lot of low numbers, and we took a number of back-to-back reductions - down from 2.5u all the way down to 1u. At first Eddie seemed to be holding the reductions, but eventually, he was bouncing far more than he was getting good numbers, so I think the glucose toxicity from the constant bouncing ultimately set in. I raised him back up (per to the best of my understanding of the protocol) over the last month and a half or so to where we are at now, and things seemed to have clicked again. The difference being this time around, I've been using food to manage his curve much more diligently, as compared to last time where I didn't really try to actively intervene to avoid reductions. These really early cycle drops are new to me though, and I'm having a tough time anticipating them.

Thank you so much for your insight!
 
Re: 6/22 AMPS 141, +6/232, PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46

I have been able to bring Max up with hc +a drop or 2 of karo. I too would think you have depo there but someone far more experienced than I will tell you what to do. It's great that he cleared the bounce so fast.
 
Re: 6/22 AMPS 141, +6/232, PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46

tiffmaxee said:
I have been able to bring Max up with hc +a drop or 2 of karo. I too would think you have depo there but someone far more experienced than I will tell you what to do. It's great that he cleared the bounce so fast.
Click to expand...

Yesterday during the AM cycle, when I had to stay with him, I had a heck of a time getting Eddie to stay up above 50, even with a lot of HC and even karo. For Eddie karo will usually get him up a bit, but it wears off faster than HC. It remains to be seen how much it will take to get him to stay up this cycle. These early cycle drops seem harder to pull up and they go on for hours. Good thing we have lots of coffee. @-)
 
Re: 6/22 AMPS 141, +6/232, PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46

If you have to work that hard, perhaps you should drop again.
 
Re: 6/22 AMPS 141, +6/232, PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46

tiffmaxee said:
If you have to work that hard, perhaps you should drop again.
Click to expand...

Good point Elise. After 4 Tbsp. MC (12%) which is the normal amount for second supper but obviously higher carb, at +2, which I naively hoped would get him to stay in the 60's, plus 1 Tbsp. HC 22% at +2.5, and again at +3, Eddie's up to 52. I fed another T. of 18% for good measure. HC usually lasts about an hour and a half for Eddie.
 
Re: 6/22 AMPS 141, PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46, +3.5/52

When I use hc and karo together I can get Max to surf.
 
Re: 6/22 AMPS 141, PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46, +3.5/52

tiffmaxee said:
When I use hc and karo together I can get Max to surf.
Click to expand...

If he drops back down (which I'm anticipating), I'll give this a try. I've never used karo in combination with food before.
 
Re: 6/22 Eddie AMPS 141, PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46, +4

I just add a few drops of karo to a spoonful of food. Max needs to lose weight hence the small amount of food. I then test every 30. Usually I only need to do it twice if his BG is stubborn.
 
Re: 6/22 Eddie AMPS 141, PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46, +4

Hi Elise. I did try the HC food + a drop of karo at +5, and it did bring him up to 62, which I'm pleased to see. Hopefully, he'll stay up now.
 
Re: 6/22 Eddie PMPS/186, +2/66, +2.5/35, +3/46, +4/50, +4.5/

Hopefully you will hear from Marje, Julie or Wendy on whether it's the depot or you should reduce. Usually they say depot but I'm not sure here .
 
+6 = 72. It's been two hours since HC +karo and an hour since some MC, so it looks like Eddie's going to stay up now (anti-jinx). With any luck maybe he'll surf. Although, I'm not going to complain if he bounces during the day tomorrow. I also hope to hear what Marje, Julie or Wendy thinks about holding or decreasing. Been there done that on taking reductions back to back. On the other hand, the situation is not entirely the same as it was back in May. I've been pretty aggressive with food management, and these early cycle drops have me scratching my head. That's a new pattern I'm not used to.
 
I think Rocky and Eddie might be doing the same thing right now. I also was very aggressive with food management and had Rocky all the way up to 2.50u or insulin for awhile. Then, he was on 2.0u while I was away for 7 days, and I had him on a medical board at the vet. The vet wanted to charge me $10.00 per poke and I said "no way." Rocky threw up two times at the vet and they guessed that his BG was too low. They then did the blood glucose test (on their dime) and found it to be at 60, with their blood glucose monitors. It was that way for two cycles that they tested, so on those two occasions they did not give him a shot. I believe that it very well could have happened that Rocky surfed some 40s for a few days while I was away and he was under their care. I thought, "if he has a hypo, it's their fault and they have to deal with it."

Now, I am a bit baffled and not quiet sure how to handle Rocky's BG going even lower during his evening cycle tonight, when he did not get a shot. In addition, I had given him a .25u reduction last night and he had the exact same amount of insulin this morning. I believe this is the first time that his BG has gone lower during a no shot cycle, even when I am still feeding him 5.5 oz. of food for this cycle.

Like you, I am also wondering what to do about tomorrow morning's shot. I also do not want to do back-to-back reductions that don't hold. Plus, I've skipped a few shots for Rocky too.

Also, I am feeding him MC and HC a lot of the time, like you, but the HC that I feed Rocky is even HIGHER, Science Diet 33% carbs.. I don't like to use the Karo any longer. I just didn't know how to use it correctly (if there is such a thing) and I always screwed up Rocky's BG with it. I believe I caused him to have to go through some extremely elevated BG's- like in the 400s, a few times into the 500s because of an overuse of Karo and HC together.
 
Hi Tina,

Thanks for your thoughts. I know you went through something like this before with Rocky, too. Rapidly coming down the dosing scale, and then having to climb back up.

As of right now, I'm thinking I might see what he looks like in the AM before deciding whether to reduce or not. After yesterday's AM run when I had to call in to work, I don't want a repeat of that again right away. I hadn't considered skipping a shot, maybe to drain the depot a bit, and then starting back up again with the same dose rather than reducing. I wonder if that's a strategy that works with some kitties.
 
Most recently, (not tonight), I actually skipped a shot for Rocky, and then also when I started back up reduced his insulin dose by .25u. As of tonight, I am still seeing his BG coming down with this reduced shot from this morning.

I know one thing for sure, if I keep reducing his insulin dose and then find his BG is all the way back up to the mid-100s or 200s, I will increase his dose by .25u the very next cycle. Our cats don't "settle in" to reductions, and I've never heard "New Dose Wonkiness" said of a reduction. For Rocky, when I've taken a reduction and he has higher BG numbers, it means he is simply not getting enough insulin.
 
I agree with Sienne - a drop into the 30's is something to pay attention to. If this had been the cycle after his last dip into the 30's I'd be inclined to just say it's depot. But it's the third cycle so his 2.75 depot should have drained somewhat. I also consider the amount of HC I've had to give. Usually just one feeding of HC is enough to bring Neko up. If I have to continuously feed her HC or karo, her dose is too high.
 
Hi Wendy! Nice to see you again. :YMHUG: Thank you!!

2.25 it is starting tomorrow morning. Fingers crossed!
 
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