6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +11 150 dosing help???

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ISIL&TIFIL

ISIL&TIFIL

Member Since 2011
Half an hour left to AMPS...please help me for dosing?



AMPS 301, +1 314, +8 264, +9.5 204, +11 165 she started going down too late, PMPS is 150, I gave her 1iu, I hope nothing bad will happen.
I don't understand why her nadir is on the 12th hour. I don't understand why we still don't have a good U curve :(
By the way, I can't get the spreadsheet from google, there is a problem, I am waiting for an answer from the tech support. Just to give information I am writting the last numbers here. Please help me, I am really going to go crazy :roll: :roll: :? :cry:

6/15 PMPS 360 1iu +5/278, +8/188, +9.5/289
AMPS 250 1iu +6.5/129, +9/93, +10.5/256

6/16 PMPS 327 1iu +2/327, +4/218, +6/205, +8/157, +10/125, +11/189
AMPS 233 1iu +2/300 +8/259, +10/272, +11/278

6/17 PMPS 238 1iu +1/292, +3/331, +6/341, +7/318, +8/315, +10/280
AMPS 244 1iu +2 198, +4 235, +10 124

6/18 PMPS 137 0.5 iu +2/130, +3/169, +4/170, +6/230
AMPS 209 1.0 iu +1/165, +2/139, +3/106, +5/103, +8/114, +10/110, +11/129

6/19 PMPS 146 0.5 iu +1/152, +8/309, +10/290, +11/327
AMPS 297 1iu +1/312, +2/261, +7/92, +10/93, +11/108

6/20 PMPS 117 0.5 iu +1/132, +3.5/127, +4.5/124, +6/256, +8.5/317 (started antibiotics and painkiller after blood in the urine)
AMPS 301 1iu +1/314, +8/264, +9.5/204, +11/163

6/21 PMPS 150 1iu
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL AMPS 301, +1 314, +8 264, +9.5 204, +11 165

Good Evening I think (it's morning here 5:00am). Sorry I wasn't on earlier. Pepper's shot time is at 4am/pm which I think is the same time your Tifil's shot time is.

Did Tifil's BG go up before shot time? What time are you feeding her? It is better to feed close to shot time (after it not before and usually before +5 or +6) so the BG goes down then back up as the insulin works, then nothing (a few small snacks only) till shot time again. Most of us feed 3-4 very small meals, about 1-1.25oz (28.35-35.44gm) at a time. Small cats like Tifil and Pepper only need about 230 calories a day to maintain there weight at about 11-12 lbs (5-5.5 kg).

I know at first it is hard to ignore their meows for more food until they get used to their new diet, but it is for their own good. Boiled chicken breast, cut into 1/2in (2.54cm) cubes is a very good snack for them, almost 0 cals and 0 carbs for 1-2 and they just love them. I make 1-2 breasts at a time, cut it up then freeze it, keeping what I think I will use in 2 days in the refrigerator. I then give 2 at test time when I don't feed and 1-2 when Pepper seems to be very hungry between feedings. Since they don't like cold food, I usually put 2 cubes in a plastic baggie then drop it into hot tap water for about 30 seconds just before I test or give to Pepper as a snack (it should be about room temperature).
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

Hello,
Thank you very much for helping,
I'm feeding her before the shot and +1 +2 small feedings with lots of water in it. I wasn't giving her at +6, I will now and on.
The BG was going down but if I gave her 0.5 then she will be up at threehundreds at the AMPS.
I am really confused of her bg levels, I don't now why we can't maintain a U curve :(:(:(:(
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

I added more to my first post, please read it again.

It is VERY early in her treatment, wide swings are to be expected until you get her food and insulin matched.
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

Before the shot? How long before?

Since she is on antibiotics and painkillers her BG may be "wonky". Meaning it won't be usual. Also, are you feeding foods listed on Binky's list as below 10% carbs?
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

hi,
Yes I am feeding her with fancy feast classic.. Before writting I have read alot from this board. I'm also giving her boiled chicken (frozen), I put them in the microwave then I ad alot of water in, while waiting for it to cool the water becomes very flavored with chiken and she loves to drink it as she eats the chiken.
Now our bg is 87 :( my eyes are on her...
It has been about a month since we started lantus, I don't understand why still no curve, maybe I am doing something wrong...or maybe this is normal...I'm confused...it is really a hard job, I am lucky that all the exams finished at school and I don't have to go to work so often, ı am watching her
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

Hi there!!! Try not to worry too much about her numbers going down a little at the end of her cycle. Lantus is famous for a "double dip" sometimes where the numbers will dip again at the end of the cycle. Shooting 150 can be scary. Just make sure you get a +1 and a +2. If her numbers continue to drop, depending on what the numbers are, you can give her a little food or gravy. When you post the numbers, someone will be able to direct you and how you should proceed. And feeding her at her PS and +1 and +2 is fine. I tend to feed at PS, +1, +2, and +3 with tiny snacks any time a poke him for a test. The +1, 2, and 3 meals are usually only 0.5 oz, very small. You're doing great. Try not to worry!! :-D
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

You're doing great with the testing! It does take a while for things to settle out with Lantus, and unfortunately sometimes when you think things have finally settled down, they change yet again :lol: ! Some kitties do have a late nadir with Lantus...gathering all the data that you've been getting is very helpful in determining if you guys fall into that category.

Like Patty said, try not to worry...there is tons of support here, and you are on the right track. One motto around here about FD is that it's marathon, not a sprint. It takes all of us a some time to get used to it, but if you need a little help, visit Marjorie (Gracie's condo) to borrow her "Patience Pants" - she's always happy to share :lol: !

I'm sure a pair of expert eyes will be along to help you out with the specifics and details...

Havea great day (or is it night now for you???)...

Amy
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

I made up a spreadsheet on my computer just to see for myself what Tifil's numbers looked like. Once I saw them in color they didn't look all that bad for as early in her treatment as she is. I attached a copy of it but I'm not sure if it will show up for you or if you will be able to add to it until you get the "real one" from the message board. I'm using an old version of Excel so you may not be able to see or use it.

I think once you see Tifil's numbers in color you will be more relaxed, they really aren't that bad for this early.
 

Attachments

Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

I tried the link and it worked for me and it let me edit it so maybe it will let you too.

I think it has to be opened with Microsoft Excel if it gives you a choice.
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

Isil, I'm attaching a link for the spreadsheet. When I did Champ's SS, I ended up having to just go into google docs and searching for it. The link in the instructions didn't work for me either. Click on the link and then click on "use this template" for the world SS if you want to enter your numbers using the metric system (we here in the US can hit a tab to automatically convert the numbers to mg/dl). If you want to use the US version, that's find too, but you can't enter using the metric system. Hope it works for you.

https://docs.google.com/templates?q=FDMB&sort=hottest&view=public
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

Hi,
Before reading everything I wanted to give information about last 2 hours :S
+1 87, I feed her with boiled chiken, +2 37 my god it was so frightening, I gave her gravy can food and some honey on her palate. then it was like this during two hours,
60-58-59
and +3 56

I am going to look again after 15 minutes
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

+1 87 :(
as I wrote above, last two hours was very very terrifying
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

Go ahead and give her some more gravy. You're doing fine. Testing every 15 minutes is perfect.
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

Patty & Champ said:
Isil, I'm attaching a link for the spreadsheet. When I did Champ's SS, I ended up having to just go into google docs and searching for it. The link in the instructions didn't work for me either. Click on the link and then click on "use this template" for the world SS if you want to enter your numbers using the metric system (we here in the US can hit a tab to automatically convert the numbers to mg/dl). If you want to use the US version, that's find too, but you can't enter using the metric system. Hope it works for you.

https://docs.google.com/templates?q=FDMB&sort=hottest&view=public
Click to expand...


When I click "use this template" it says "We're sorry, your spreadsheet cannot be copied at this time". It says the same for the US version :(
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

When you feed her, you want to feed your normal FF at PS, +1, and +2. Because boiled chicken has almost no carbs, there's nothing for her low numbers to work on. Given the boiled chicken as her treats or a small meal if she's really hungry past +6.

When I click "use this template" it says "We're sorry, your spreadsheet cannot be copied at this time". It says the same for the US version :(
Click to expand...

Very strange because it works for me. Maybe your browser is just not wanting to cooperate or something. Hopefully, tech can help you then.
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

TrixieCat said:
You're doing great with the testing! It does take a while for things to settle out with Lantus, and unfortunately sometimes when you think things have finally settled down, they change yet again :lol: ! Some kitties do have a late nadir with Lantus...gathering all the data that you've been getting is very helpful in determining if you guys fall into that category.

Like Patty said, try not to worry...there is tons of support here, and you are on the right track. One motto around here about FD is that it's marathon, not a sprint. It takes all of us a some time to get used to it, but if you need a little help, visit Marjorie (Gracie's condo) to borrow her "Patience Pants" - she's always happy to share :lol: !

I'm sure a pair of expert eyes will be along to help you out with the specifics and details...

Havea great day (or is it night now for you???)...

Amy
Click to expand...


It will be wonderful to have a pair of patience pants, one for me and one for my husband who is about to inject the insulin in me :)
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

It's very scary when you get low numbers the first time. Please post and let us walk you through the process so you don't feel like you're doing this alone.

This post on handling low numbers will help.

You did fine. Basically, you want to test, feed with higher carb food to get numbers above 50, and then re-test in 15 - 20 min. You'll want to see numbers stabilize in a safe range and then you can test in 30 min.

The reason we asked about when you got the 87 is that a drop at +1 indicates it's an active cycle. Usually, you see a food spike at +1 and numbers are around the same at +2 as your pre-shot number. Instead, you see that Tilfil is telling you that you need to reduce the amount of insulin you're giving. A drop in BG below 50 in a newly diagnosed cat earns a dose reduction. You'll reduce your dose by 0.25u at your next shot time. Your new dose will be 0.75u.

I know you don't have half-unit syringes. Do your best to approximate the dose consistently. You may want to practice this before shot time.
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

I'm glad you're here Sienne. I've got to get my butt to work!!! I'm signing off!! Good luck, Isil!!
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150 HELP :(

Deb and Pepper said:
I made up a spreadsheet on my computer just to see for myself what Tifil's numbers looked like. Once I saw them in color they didn't look all that bad for as early in her treatment as she is. I attached a copy of it but I'm not sure if it will show up for you or if you will be able to add to it until you get the "real one" from the message board. I'm using an old version of Excel so you may not be able to see or use it.

I think once you see Tifil's numbers in color you will be more relaxed, they really aren't that bad for this early.
Click to expand...

thank you veryyy muchhhh :)
It really made me calm down, you are very polite, thank you very much for giving your time for me.
Can I continue from this now?
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

I'm not sure if you can use it or not. Try to change it lower in the page and save it. If it works for you use it. If not, they are easy to make...I can walk you through it once Tifil is stable.

Be right back. Need to restart my computer, it is so slow right now.
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

+3.5 58
Thanks god it's not going down :cool:

So this means the next time I will give 0.75?
at AMPS and PMPS?

I asked for the half unit syringes, but sorry to say there are no half unit syringes in Turkey.
But I guess I can manage to give 0.75 with whole unit syringes, at least it can be approximately something like 0.75
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

Can you get them from the internet? The reason I ask is it's VERY hard to judge with the full unit syringes that you are giving the same amount each time which will cause her numbers to rise and fall. It's hard enough to get it the same with the half unit syringes... :?
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

I have friends in Germany, they will come for holiday after couple of weeks. I will ask them to bring some but I am not sure if it will be a problem passing from the custom.
If I can find one half unit syringe then maybe I will find a way to change the needle. I hope I can find a way..
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

tifil&isil said:
+3.5 58
Thanks god it's not going down :cool:

So this means the next time I will give 0.75?
at AMPS and PMPS?

I asked for the half unit syringes, but sorry to say there are no half unit syringes in Turkey.
But I guess I can manage to give 0.75 with whole unit syringes, at least it can be approximately something like 0.75
Click to expand...

hello isil. i only have a few minutes, but i wanted to check back to see how you're doing.
looks like you had a scary time! you handled tifil's numbers very well! since it's still early in the cycle, you'll want to continue testing for several hours yet. alternate feeding little bits of hc gravy and hc food to keep the numbers up (over 50). post for help. there are others who will be online throughout the day.

yes, you'll shoot 0.75u at both AMPS and PMPS. you'll have to estimate the amount on your syringes until you can get your hands on some syringes marked with half units. consistency is the key. the dose may not be exact, but try to duplicate the same amount every time you give a shot.

about that spreadsheet...
i'm sure deb/pepper has the best intentions, but please do not use her Excel template. it doesn't make much sense to use a spreadsheet format that not everyone can view. i'll find someone to help you with a google spreadsheet. i know others have had trouble with google, but some have found a solution. i'm late for work, but i'll get back to you about this on my lunch break.


ps --- you and your husband are doing great! :-D
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

Not sure about customs. I know here in the US you can take them on air lines but going to another country may be a different thing...and in a large quantity it may be impossible. That's why I asked about getting them from the internet...that may be your only option.
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

+4 69 :) I think we survived from a hypo. I got to sweat alot while Miss.TIFIL got the chance to eat some GRAVY YUMMY FOOD :) I am going to the refrigerator to get some icecream :-D :-D :-D
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

let's not worry about spreadsheets and syringes right this minute... Please keep testing every 1/2 hour until Tifil rises significantly. It looks like sometimes she nadirs late in the cycle, so unless she starts to bounce you'll want to stay on top of things for a few more hours.

Did you see Sienne's post that included a link to the Handling Low Numbers information? Please read through that now.

Your best bet is probably to feed small amounts of gravy from high carb food at each test. She has already earned her reduction, so it's ok to bump her up a little higher to surf for the rest of the cycle. 50s at +3 make me uncomfortable. I'm at work, but will try to check back in with you soon.
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

Jill & Alex said:
about that spreadsheet...
i'm sure deb/pepper has the best intentions, but please do not use her Excel template. it doesn't make much sense to use a spreadsheet format that not everyone can view. i'll find someone to help you with a google spreadsheet. i know others have had trouble with google, but some have found a solution. i'm late for work, but i'll get back to you about this on my lunch break.
Click to expand...

I only meant for Isil to use my spreadsheet until she could get the google one working, just for her own comfort that Tifil's numbers aren't all that bad. Looking at them in color makes a big difference in the way you look at them...at least to me they do. :smile:
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56

Libby and Lucy said:
let's not worry about spreadsheets and syringes right this minute... Please keep testing every 1/2 hour until Tifil rises significantly. It looks like sometimes she nadirs late in the cycle, so unless she starts to bounce you'll want to stay on top of things for a few more hours.

Did you see Sienne's post that included a link to the Handling Low Numbers information? Please read through that now.

Your best bet is probably to feed small amounts of gravy from high carb food at each test. She has already earned her reduction, so it's ok to bump her up a little higher to surf for the rest of the cycle. 50s at +3 make me uncomfortable. I'm at work, but will try to check back in with you soon.
Click to expand...

Ok, I will give her some more gravy food and will continue to test her every half an hour. I am lucky to be at home so I can keep an eye on her all the day.
Thank you very much for your concern, Tıfıl and I are thankfull....
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56, +4 6

Just so you don't get too panicked, we don't consider low numbers a "hypo" unless the cat has symptoms of hypoglycemia. If you take a look at Garfunkle's condo (thread), you'll see that Phil hasn't given insulin in 36 hours and Garfunkle's numbers are in the 30s. I would never suggest that a cat that's getting insulin spend more than a short time in the 30s, but low numbers are something you can control. You're doing a great job testing and you are learning how to steer the cycle with HC (high carb) food. As long as you have a meter, strips, and a source of HC, you are in control.

Were you able to check with some of the people in the Pediatrics Dept. where you work to see if they know where to get half unit syringes?
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56, +4 6

Hi Isil,
You are doing just fine. Here's a tip for getting a consistent dose with a syringe that has 1-unit markings. Take a syringe to use as a "sample". Measure the space from the 0 to the 1-unit line. Put a tiny piece of tape on the sample syringe at the place where you estimate .75. Save the sample syringe and use it every time as a comparison when you draw up insulin into a syringe.

Here's another tip when drawing up insulin: Always draw up more than you need. Then, gently twist the plunger to expel the excess insulin until you arrive at your dose. (It helps to work the plunger back and forth 3 or 4 times before you draw up insulin to get the plunger to move smoothly; then push it all the way in, insert it into the insulin vial, and slowly begin to draw up your dose--this way you will minimize air bubbles.)

I hope that all will go well for you the rest of today. Jill, Sienne, and Libby are giving you great advice. I remember reading a while ago that other new members of the FDMB were having difficulty getting the Google spreadsheet template. It might have something to do with a problem at Google itself. Perhaps check the Google help screens to see what is going on there!

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56, +4 6

Sienne and Gabby said:
Just so you don't get too panicked, we don't consider low numbers a "hypo" unless the cat has symptoms of hypoglycemia. If you take a look at Garfunkle's condo (thread), you'll see that Phil hasn't given insulin in 36 hours and Garfunkle's numbers are in the 30s. I would never suggest that a cat that's getting insulin spend more than a short time in the 30s, but low numbers are something you can control. You're doing a great job testing and you are learning how to steer the cycle with HC (high carb) food. As long as you have a meter, strips, and a source of HC, you are in control.

Were you able to check with some of the people in the Pediatrics Dept. where you work to see if they know where to get half unit syringes?
Click to expand...


Hi,
I have asked everywere but couldn't find the syringes. I am still searching, If I can't find I can create, not joking, :razz: :razz: :razz:
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38 (60,58,59) +3 56, +4 6

Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA) said:
Hi Isil,
You are doing just fine. Here's a tip for getting a consistent dose with a syringe that has 1-unit markings. Take a syringe to use as a "sample". Measure the space from the 0 to the 1-unit line. Put a tiny piece of tape on the sample syringe at the place where you estimate .75. Save the sample syringe and use it every time as a comparison when you draw up insulin into a syringe.

Here's another tip when drawing up insulin: Always draw up more than you need. Then, gently twist the plunger to expel the excess insulin until you arrive at your dose. (It helps to work the plunger back and forth 3 or 4 times before you draw up insulin to get the plunger to move smoothly; then push it all the way in and slowly begin to draw up your dose--this way you will minimize air bubbles.)

I hope that all will go well for you the rest of today. Jill, Sienne, and Libby are giving you great advice. I remember reading a while ago that other new members of the FDMB were having difficulty getting the Google spreadsheet template. It might have something to do with a problem at Google itself. Perhaps check the Google help screens to see what is going on there!

Ella & Rusty
Click to expand...

Thank you for the hints, I'm sure with your help I'm going to pass the level :smile:
I will try everything you say today at our AMPS shot...
Many thanks
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38, +3 56, +4 69, +5 89

Hi Isil and welcom to FDMB
YOu are doing great and have received excellent advice.
When you have a minute in between testing Tifil, go over to the tech forum where you
posted for help with your ss.
I am the one that created the world ss and hopefully posted a link to help.
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150, +1 87, +2 38, +3 56, +4 69, +5 89

MauiGuppy said:
You're doing fantastic Isil!
Click to expand...

Thank you :-D
I can't believe bg's are coming up... 89 is good. Altough I am curious what we are going to end up at the AMPS. I hate the "no shot"s. then after another 12 hour we meet an astronomical number :(
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150,+1 87,+2 38,+3 56,+4 69,+5 89,+6 114

Hi Isil,
I discovered a possible source of confusion in the "tips" I posted earlier. Please note the following addition:

". . . then push it all the way in, insert it into the insulin vial, and slowly begin to draw up your dose--this way you will minimize air bubbles.)"
Click to expand...

I hope the original sentence did not confuse you!

Ella
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150,+1 87,+2 38,+3 56,+4 69,+5 89,+6 114

tifil is looking good! you're doing a great job managing her numbers.
randi & max (randi posted above) is the person who created the world spreadsheet. she'll help you in the tech forum.

I hate the "no shot"s. then after another 12 hour we meet an astronomical number :(
Click to expand...
i'm hoping the reduction to 0.75u will allow you to shoot twice a day.
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150,+1 87,+2 38,+3 56,+4 69,+5 89,+6 114

WOW!! hOW GREAT A BEGINNING!!!! You are doing a great job!! Go Tifil! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150,+1 87,+2 38,+3 56,+4 69,+5 89,+6 114

+7.5 85 :( going down again.. she vomited alot of fur and some liquid. I don't think the throwing up was because of antibiotics because it was all fur and 8 hours passed taking the antibiotic.
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150,+1 87,+2 38,+3 56,+4 69,+5 89,+6 114

hmmm, maybe let her tummy rest for about 15 - 20 minutes and then try feeding her a little bit of a different flavor food?
if she'd eat a little food with gravy or even just the gravy that would be ok, too.
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150,+1 87,+2 38,+3 56,+6 114, +8 85

can someone tell me, do you see my spreadsheet?

By the way, there has been lots of things that I missed from your posts. I read everything again. Thank you again for everything...
 
Re: 6/21 TIFIL PMPS 150,+1 87,+2 38,+3 56,+6 114, +8 85

Yes!! The link to your spreadsheet (SS) works perfectly.

Just try to integrate the information slowly. Right now, you need to stay focused on managing Tilfil's BG numbers. Syringes, etc. are less important for the moment. Sometimes, we all get very excited about providing information and it's a very big data dump. For now, just stay focused on keeping Tilfil in this kind of a numbers range. You're doing great!

I'll try to check in but I'm at work and won't be able to be around consistently. Others are probably trying to keep an eye on you and Tilfil in much the same way. It's the middle of our work day.
 
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