? 6/20 NORMAN AMPS 325 OUT OF REMISSION SINCE 6/12 QUESTIONS

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Cindywith4cutecats

Cindywith4cutecats

Member Since 2014
Norman has been in remission SInce January 2014 and his last good BG testing was May 26th and he read BG112. All his BG's tup to that point had always been between 60 to 115 with a few 130s after having had some company. I own 4 cats and all cats at this point had all been on Friskies Special Diet Turkey and Giblets to prevent any trouble .

My other cat Simon had to be put on liquid claivmox around June 2nd. Norman the diabetic cat HATES clavimox with a passion. SO I mixed the liquid clavimox in Simons food and gave it to him, Simon doesn't sniff his food he just eats . We never dreamed Norman would ever get within 5 foot of liquid Clavimox and boy was I wrong and I hate hate hate myself over this. I busted Norman on Friday June 12th eating some of Simons food with the liquid clavimox. Phone calls made to vet etc to find out and confirm my liquid clavimox is the pediatric based formula so its sweetened and will raise the BG of a diabetic cat through the roof which it has.
I watched and hoped his BG would turn around after a few days of getting the clavimox out of his system NOPE didn't happen, started mixing his food Special Diet Turkey and Giblets with FF CLASSIC ( he won't eat that all the time ) ! As of JUNE 16 Tuesday that evening Norman was switched to Wellness Turkey Formula with the yellow triangle grain free from Dr Lisa's Website. I placed a pic on the facebook page of FDMB and had it confirmed I bought the right cat food. The FDA gave warning to Purina in January over improper packaging and heating of the low acid canned cat /dog food so I had internal questions about his BG as a result of that. As you can tell from his SS he was all over the road with his BG and Sunday evening I freaked out and decided it would be best to him 1/4 unit of LANTUS SOLO STAR PEN ( I had 3 UNOPENED pens left with an expire date of March 2017 , kept in fridge in meat keeper with a thermometer next the the box reading a cool 40 degrees all this time Monday eve I really freaked out and increased to .50 unit. My biggest concern was giving to much insulin and having him go hypo if this clavimox cleared his system on its own and corrected itself on its own....

Not getting anywhere on .50 unit and had aleady schedule an vet appt for him. Took him to his Vet on Wednesday 6/17 who still confirmed he believes its the clavimox he got into cause we don't know how many days he may have gotten him. Norman is boss over Simon and its possible they switched up plates of food.

6/18 thursday I thought OMG GOOD his numbers are trending down that morning and my Lantus must good etc PHEW but that was short lived. That evening husband moved over a little and gave Norman his insulin shot a little different. I was convinced since he shot him in a different spot this was causing his numbers to rise again.

If you look at his SS (which by the way if you click on it and it does not take you to it if you highlight it and copy it and paste in your browser you can go to it....I am unsure how to fix this and beyond frustrated . I have the same numbers and the same trends with the exception of JUNE 18th ......I am confused beyond belief and wound up so tight I can't wrap my head around this. Norman in the past if you look at his SS really didn't give me any trouble at all, he managed to surf pretty fast and learned the dance......This time not so much

SO I sit this morning wondering wth. DO I increase his dose this evening to 1.25 , do I hold another day and see ? DO I get new Lantus Solo Star Pens , I know I stored the other ones correct, I am a lunatic over them. If I look at JUNE 18th in the morning run I look back to see WHY WHY did his numbers start to trend down and then flip back up, I had thought hubby shot wrong that evening and maybe I have lost headway..I know that when you see a change in the numbers you look to the past few days to see what changes made. I don't understand why on June 18th his numbers started trending down only to RISE again. I don't understand !!! Any help would be so apprciated

I need some eyes to look at his SS and see what I am missing, I am new to this although I went through it before it but at that time my Vet put him on to high a dose , we were using Alphatrack meter and then became converts lol and he just went down from there. We had one 3 day experience with new dose wonkiness and that was it..Norman did all the work and he did good then......



We use the Relion Micro Meter to which I went out and bought new batteries , and purchased another meter
 
Hi Cindy and although I know you don't really "want" to be back, nice to see you!

I think you're expecting too much, too soon. Remember, it takes 5 days at the same dose to "load the depot" and really see how that dose is going to do before you should consider changing dose. At this point, I think I'd hold the 1 unit dose for another cycle or two and if you don't see some better nadir's, then go to 1.25 and hold that dose for at least 3 days.

Kitties coming back from remission are tougher to get back into remission, so it's important to maybe be a little more aggressive than normal, but even with that, you just can't rush it

He's a very big kitty (if I remember right) so he may need a bigger dose, but let's get their safely too
 
Thank you Chris and China...I need to know this cause I am all over the road....I use the latus solostar pens. I had unopened pens in fridge , kept in box, in meat keeper with a a brand new fridge thermometer next to them.always been at 40 degrees...SO you wouldn't be so fast to replace the insuling ? The expire date is March 2017 and I have a hard time believing the insulin is BAD ..I had a vial go bad and lost control of Norman , thats why we are on the pens now, figured I would always be current for at least 2 years with insulin in the house instead of freaking..Yes it would hard but I am willing to replace those Pens and give up something somewhere else in the budget...I would give up TV satellite If I need to ..what are your thoughts on the INSULIN or are his his numbers a little more typical of being harder to regulate. and yes he is a very big cat, 18 lbs now and very tall and long....he is bigger than some small dogs and stands taller than also lol
 
Cindy --

The hardest thing you can do to yourself is to assume that this go-round will be exactly the same as the last time. If you consider what your own experience with something like the flu is, sometimes it's mild and sometimes it's awful. Norman, just like all of us, is a living and breathing organism. Things change. Unfortunately, coming out of remission is tough on an already compromised pancreas. You just need to do your best and hope than Norman responds. And, you're doing your best.

It's likely that Norman will need a higher dose than he needed the last time. It's also likely that you'll need to be more aggressive.. Like I said on your FB page, look at Gabby's SS. She's gone through periods when she dove and bounced in a very impressive way. Her cycles are much flatter and I know a great deal more about how to manage number numbers.

As long as the expiration date on the pen is current, your insulin is likely just fine. I've gotten a pen that was a problem -- but it's been rare.

 
I purchase new Lantus Pens after a total nervous breakdown....Walgreens gave me a hard time as they wanted the script to read more specific directions ...total nightmare but I was lucky after crying hysterically that I was able to get hold of my vet. He responds to Facebook messages and he called walgreens and gave them hell....So now I will know for sure if its the pens or not...I needed for my own sanity to rule that out...Last time I had lost control it was my vial was bad ..sometimes you have to go with your gut ...I can't wait now to test him tonight and see if he does better with new pens...Now waiting 1 hour 45 minutes to feed and shoot
 
Good advice above..I've also commented on your FB threads so won't make this long.
It's been a week, it's not EVEN been a week. I know how nerve wracking it is but you MUST relax a little.
Give it a minute...you can't just flip a switch and Norman is right where you want him NOW...poor baby..i am sure he would like to give you all greens if he could. But you said he is eating, seems himself, does not seem sick..how great!

Whatever is going on with him (or not) you seem to have caught in the first 5 minutes. The fact you can keep an eye on him with BG tests is great...means you don't have to allow any possible underlying issues to go unnoticed and fester. Catching things like that quickly are key.
Did you get your lab results back? Anything out of range?
Obviously IF something else is going on, the BG's won't be in check until that is resolved.

So please give Norman a chance..he wants to please you. And take lots of deep breaths, a few steps back, and some wine. It's gonna be OK:bighug::bighug:

PS: do you have numbers to fill in on the SS between Feb/March and June? I think you continued testing periodically during that time?
 
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You opened a new pen? I truly don't think your current pens are any issue... they are unopened, kept cold, and long dated. I hate your panic costing you $400.
 
me to but I just did it. I needed to put it to rest. I am considering raising his dose maybe after the completion of 10 shots at this 1 unit dosing. I am use to seeing him come down, I was shocked even more so today seeing higher numbers.....I don't what else to do, I thought by now with it being 6 doses at 1 unit I would see some movement down , maybe not a lot but some movement down ..I didn't expect a mid cycle increases like I am seeing
 
his labs are fine, teeth fine. urine fine but still waiting urine culture ..probably have on monday or tuesday. His white cell count was fine...Norman has had idiotpathic cystitis in the past...thats the only thing I can imagine going on with him....he is FINE, he is eating, playing, no pain as the vet went over him head to tail, ears fine felt his whole belly and really pushed on different organs
 
Cindy, try to relax. Remember the LL saying that you no doubt heard before, "this is a marathon, not a sprint." You're doing everything right and now you have to let the insulin do its thing. The depot needs to build and the dose needs to settle.

You've got 6 days of insulin at 3 different doses with the last 3 days at 1.0u. You have 1 blue nadir in the past 3 days. If I were you, I'd hold the 1.0u for as many as 4 more days, depending on if you see any more blue nadirs. I wouldn't rush to increase because you may overshoot the right dose. I'm thinking it would be a good idea to give this dose 1 week, as the Tight Regulation guidelines suggest for the first week on insulin.

However, if he doesn't get back into blue numbers in the next few cycles then you might need to increase. I'm just picking up on your anxiety and want to encourage you to relax and just follow the protocol.

Hugs! These things happen, so don't beat yourself up.

By the way, I'd hang on to the insulin from your fridge. I suspect it's just fine.
 
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