6/20 Alexia's Blue PMPS 244, +2 204, + 3 154

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Hillary & Maui (GA)

Hillary & Maui (GA)

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Yesterday

So, I shot an 0.8 (I think). Until I can get the other syringes, I am guestimating what this looks like and at least staying consistent.

And on the WCR -

Could it be, might it be that angry(2)_cat has left the building?!

Only a mild grrr last night for the +5 test and silence this morning for AMPS. Now, there was a slight grrr when giving the shot. He seems to do that with every shot. Alexia shoots the scruff and I've followed her lead (I shot Maui in the flank), especially at first since I couldn't get the flank, and now because that's what she does and I want to keep things consistent for her return.

He ate a few bites of breffis and had a quick walk about and now he's in the LB to pee and just finished and went back out to explore.

I'll leave the gate off while I'm home and let him out and about, hey if he can get along with the girls and not hiss and growl, then I can give him free roam of the place. Otherwise when I go to work, I'll have to close the door to his room.

He does know this is his room as he comes back here when he's uncertain, scared or done exploring and he know this is his LB.

Speaking of LB's, the one I'm using is a little high for him, so I'm thinking when I go shopping today, I'll pick up one of those disposable steamer pans and use that, as it will be flush on the floor and he won't have to climb into it like the one I am using, which he has to step up into.
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue AMPS 258, +3.5 86!!

Holy smokes! Imagine my surprise when I got this read!

This boy drops and drops fast! I need to go to store today and pick up some HC to stave this drop, but holy cow! I just gave him some FF, as I don't think the EVO is a hit - that's ok mine don't like it either.

I'll test again in a little to make sure he steadies out. WOW!!! :o :o :o :o

I'm sitting here wondering that since Alexia gave me a broken kitty to take care of, might it be possible by the time she gets back that I return a fixed kitty to her? ;-)
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue AMPS 258, +3.5 86!!

Smiling the biggest right now, you go Blue :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
The possibility of another broken fd...(anti jinx) luv it!

He's doing so well--can't believe that 86, wow!

Hillary, what was your no shoot? I seem to remember talk of 150, is that still your plan? Just wondering because I'm assuming you're working tomorrow.

Hoping the others chime in on what numbers to shoot/not shoot and at what dose.
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue AMPS 258, +3.5 86!!

I waffled my no shoot between 150 and 170, as I wasn't sure about this insulin and home testing him.

Now that we've come to terms with testing, I can monitor today, but your right, I'm at work during the week, so can't monitor. I may hedge this and say 160.

However, is PS are in the 200's, so they've been no brainers to shoot. I did reduce his dose - see on lantus I can't just do that, but I'm learning PZ talk now.... :mrgreen:

Yeah, I don't know what I should do....open for suggestions as far as no shoot # and dose #.
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue AMPS 258, +3.5 86!!, +4.5 124

Still need to figure out what to dose next.. stick with .8 or drop to .5?

And I'm calling his vet tomorrow for U100's.
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue AMPS 258, +3.5 86!!, +4.5 124

Most pzi users like to stick to a dose for a few cycles before changing. Your situation is a bit different; but I would think if his ps's are around the same; you could stick with 0.8
He's coming up, so the feeding is impacting his #'s. I think I remember you are free-feeding with him?
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue AMPS 258, +3.5 86!!, +4.5 124, +5.5 173

FurballLover said:
Most pzi users like to stick to a dose for a few cycles before changing. Your situation is a bit different; but I would think if his ps's are around the same; you could stick with 0.8
He's coming up, so the feeding is impacting his #'s. I think I remember you are free-feeding with him?
Click to expand...

Hi Jen,

Yes I'm free feeding, I'm also putting the bowl in front of him to entice him as well, when he finishes, I put on floor.

Thanks for the information, looking at how is now, I'll stick with the .8. Now tomorrow, I may do a BCS since I have to go to work and won't see his drop. I also don't know if he knows enough to eat when he drops like that. I'll see how tonight goes.
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue AMPS 258, +3.5 86!!, +4.5 124

Wow, that's quite a drop! I would love to see a +1 or +1.5, I would suspect that you are seeing Mr. P starting to kick in, in reaction to breakfast, then the insulin onset drops him from there. He could be getting an earlier than typical onset, but I think there's more to it than that.

Personally, I use a 160 no shoot. I would drop the dose to 0.6, the rising #s when they should be falling and higher ps # indicate bouncing/liver action to me. I think his dose is still too high. ProZinc can be very frustrating within the first 45 days, you get some crazy #s sometimes and it's hard to sort out.
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue AMPS 258, +3.5 86!!, +4.5 124

Hillary & Maui said:
Still need to figure out what to dose next.. stick with .8 or drop to .5?

And I'm calling his vet tomorrow for U100's.
Click to expand...


With BG85 that's a good number. You don't have to worry so much about Blue going Hypo unless he was still dropping. If it were me - I'd shoot 0.8 tonight only if you can get +3 numbers again. If not... I'd shoot just a tad under 0.8 units. You need to keep in mind that anything can happen. Since you have to work tomorrow. I'd stick with 0.5. Have you looked at Laurie & Tinkles SS lately? She was just dealing with a hypo situation and looking at Tinkles numbers... you wouldn't of thought confused_cat

You can also get the syringes at Walgreens.
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue PMPS 244

Michelle - In the state of NJ a script is required to get syringes. Therefore, in order to get them, I need her vet to call it in.
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue PMPS 244

I forgot about that. Same here, but when I called the Pharmacy at Walgreens and told them my situation. She just said that I could bring in my vet bill showing that Pru was diagnosed with FD. Good luck tonight! :smile:
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue PMPS 244

I would drop the dose to 0.6u. While yes people hold a dose to let it settle, IMO that is primarily for dose increases - you don't want to assume it isn't enough insulin too fast, and risk a breakthrough/rebound if you increase too soon. On dose reductions though, in my view it is a completely different picture. If the dose looked to be too high (which today's does to me), you reduce immediately. While there are some cats where you are trying to fine-tune to find an "ideal" dose and in that case you may want to hold a reduction for a few cycles to see where you land (if you reduce too fast you are losing overlap and it's easy to overdo that and end up high), if it is a dose-reduction path (vs. fine-tuning what looks to be a steady dose), it's a completely different ballpark as I see it.

Not sure if that all made sense, but I'm guessing someone's liver is getting with the program :mrgreen: and/or someone who shall remain unnamed is starting to awaken from a deep snooze :mrgreen: :mrgreen: . If either of those is the case, you could see some pretty rapid dose reductions needed, so if it were me I would not risk overshooting, especially if you won't be home to monitor. While I don't think today was probably much real hypo risk, I would definitely pull the dose back a little further based on today's #s. I'm not experienced enough to say I know that I'm right :) but that's what I see...

As far as the no-shoot, the key I think is to get a rising # test in. If you got say a 150 in the morning, but retested in 20 minutes & got a 180, I'd go ahead and shoot. If I were concerned at all, I'd reduce the dose a hair further, maybe 0.5 instead of the 0.6 I would have shot otherwise (I know that's academic with the U-40 syringes, but you get the idea!). If you got a 140 in the morning and a 160 on a rising # test, I'd shoot a lowered dose. Vs. if you got a 160 and retested in 15 min and got a 161, then I'd be a little more hesitant on shooting more than a token dose.

You are doing awesome Hillary! Maybe you should start up Camp Hillary & Maui and we can all leave the country and come back to a brand new kitty! Like fat camp, but for FD!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: And with custom litter boxes too, LOVE IT!!!! :mrgreen:
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue PMPS 244

Joanna & Bix said:
I would drop the dose to 0.6u. While yes people hold a dose to let it settle, IMO that is primarily for dose increases - you don't want to assume it isn't enough insulin too fast, and risk a breakthrough/rebound if you increase too soon. On dose reductions though, in my view it is a completely different picture. If the dose looked to be too high (which today's does to me), you reduce immediately. While there are some cats where you are trying to fine-tune to find an "ideal" dose and in that case you may want to hold a reduction for a few cycles to see where you land (if you reduce too fast you are losing overlap and it's easy to overdo that and end up high), if it is a dose-reduction path (vs. fine-tuning what looks to be a steady dose), it's a completely different ballpark as I see it.

Not sure if that all made sense, but I'm guessing someone's liver is getting with the program :mrgreen: and/or someone who shall remain unnamed is starting to awaken from a deep snooze :mrgreen: :mrgreen: . If either of those is the case, you could see some pretty rapid dose reductions needed, so if it were me I would not risk overshooting, especially if you won't be home to monitor. While I don't think today was probably much real hypo risk, I would definitely pull the dose back a little further based on today's #s. I'm not experienced enough to say I know that I'm right :) but that's what I see...
Click to expand...

Exactly what I see. Thanks, Joanna, for explaining in detail.
 
Re: 6/20 Alexia's Blue PMPS 244, + 2 204

Joanna & Bix said:
I would drop the dose to 0.6u. While yes people hold a dose to let it settle, IMO that is primarily for dose increases - you don't want to assume it isn't enough insulin too fast, and risk a breakthrough/rebound if you increase too soon. On dose reductions though, in my view it is a completely different picture. If the dose looked to be too high (which today's does to me), you reduce immediately. While there are some cats where you are trying to fine-tune to find an "ideal" dose and in that case you may want to hold a reduction for a few cycles to see where you land (if you reduce too fast you are losing overlap and it's easy to overdo that and end up high), if it is a dose-reduction path (vs. fine-tuning what looks to be a steady dose), it's a completely different ballpark as I see it.

Not sure if that all made sense, but I'm guessing someone's liver is getting with the program :mrgreen: and/or someone who shall remain unnamed is starting to awaken from a deep snooze :mrgreen: :mrgreen: . If either of those is the case, you could see some pretty rapid dose reductions needed, so if it were me I would not risk overshooting, especially if you won't be home to monitor. While I don't think today was probably much real hypo risk, I would definitely pull the dose back a little further based on today's #s. I'm not experienced enough to say I know that I'm right :) but that's what I see...

As far as the no-shoot, the key I think is to get a rising # test in. If you got say a 150 in the morning, but retested in 20 minutes & got a 180, I'd go ahead and shoot. If I were concerned at all, I'd reduce the dose a hair further, maybe 0.5 instead of the 0.6 I would have shot otherwise (I know that's academic with the U-40 syringes, but you get the idea!). If you got a 140 in the morning and a 160 on a rising # test, I'd shoot a lowered dose. Vs. if you got a 160 and retested in 15 min and got a 161, then I'd be a little more hesitant on shooting more than a token dose.

You are doing awesome Hillary! Maybe you should start up Camp Hillary & Maui and we can all leave the country and come back to a brand new kitty! Like fat camp, but for FD!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: And with custom litter boxes too, LOVE IT!!!! :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

I think I get what you are saying, that I guess if I shot a .6 or .5 tonight that would have been fine for him. I believe I shot a .8 or close to it, hard to tell honestly. Thanks for explaining this, I'm doing my best to not think Lantus style and think PZI, which I guess without a shed, is easier in a lot of ways.

I got in a +2 cause I was curious how fast this really works for him and he's 204, which is good so far. I also served the rest of his dinner, which he happily ate. I'll get a +3 and see where we are and go from there. Maybe I can get him to do a slower drop tonight.

tomorrow, since I won't be home to monitor, if he's 160+ I'll shoot .5 - at least that I can figure on the syringe. If he's below 160, then I'll skip the shot.

I don't know about this camp thing. Not sure Maui will tolerate it.

I bought him a turkey roaster aluminum pan - the largest in the store, and that seems to work, he's used it already to pee and I put a ketostix under him too! Negative :-D Guess I R Pretty good! LOL
 
I think I stole this from someone, but as I love to say there are no right answers, just a lot of confusing choices. :mrgreen:

PZI has overlap, which I think is similar to the shed concept, but perhaps more like a little outhouse :lol: than a full-blown shed. Where you see it in PZI is in the zoom rate reduction - as you get overlap between doses, the PSs will come down, and you won't see the extreme highs at +1 or +2 that you might without overlap. If you aren't getting much overlap then each shot is almost like an independent entity, but when you have overlap, the action of a shot is the function both of that dose and of the remnants of the previous dose.

So on a dose increase, you don't see the full effect of it on cycle 1, you have to wait 2-3 (or more for some cats) cycles to see what that dose can do once it really gets going. And on dose reductions, it works the other way - you may get good results on cycle 1 of a reduced dose, but then by the next cycle there's already less overlap so things can start to peter out and the #s go higher (unless they are on a nice dose reduction path and want less each cycle or two). I don't really know that much about the shed dealy, but it seems similar to me (?) - buildup of insulin in their system beyond just the latest shot.

Well anyhow, looks like nothing too low is showing up this cycle, so hard to say exactly what dose is ideal for him right now. Trial & error wins again! Good news is the #s are so good, probably any micro-dose in the range you are shooting will do ok. From what I have seen, their bodies manage things pretty well during all of our guesswork and experimenting. Bix definitely eats it off if I overshoot by a little, and so far seems none the worse for wear (except if I undershoot :evil: ).

[ETA: saw some overlap debate on another thread, so I should qualify this that Bix has a partially working pancreas and I don't have any way to distinguish what is true insulin overlap from what is his pancreas helping out.... so from my vantage point PZI appears to have overlap, but that's just my POV ... ]
 
I was never able to get an overlap [or one that I recognized] going with H. Each shot stood on it's own. So each cat is different when it comes to overlap and PZI. There are some fervent camps on both sides of the "PZI overlap" debate and I think that is just because it happens with some cats and not others. Also, I came to believe [especially after our switch to ProZinc] that the dosing strategy [variable/scale or consistent] probably matter when it comes to "overlap." I went back and forth on the strategies with ProZinc and ultimately felt that the cat has to get used to the strategy deployed. It seemed to take H maybe a week to get back into the flow of having his dose changed all the time.

Maybe my understanding was wrong, but I thought shed was something that took days to build up and released over a few days. "Overlap" I think is more about last shots effect on the current shot??

I think one reason too that I "refuse" to believe in overlap is that one of our vets insisted that PZI had and overlap and that dose changes with PZI took days if not weeks to really have an effect. Thus, I should not be messing with H's dosing. So now I kind of have this rebellious knee-jerk reaction to PZI having an overlap.
 
Thanks Gator,

I'm getting the same information regarding this as well. What I want to do is be as consistent with the dose as possible, but I need to take into consideration the fact that I cannot test during weekday, so I won't know if he drops too low.

Hence, I chose a safe dose this morning in order to keep me feeling comfortable about the situation and not worry while I can't be there.

I also have a call into his vet to get the U100 so I can micro dose correctly.
 
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