6/2, Frodo, amps 576, why higher on increased insulin?

[Ruth Ann and Frodo]

Last post was
http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...s-404-how-soon-can-we-increase-dosage.138441/

OK, we decided to up Frodo’s dosage to 3.33U as of 5/26, as he continued to read high on 3U.. We’ve got some off-brand syringes that are supposed to have half-unit marks but they aren’t spaced right - my husband has carefully measured the markings, which is why we have the odd number. First two days on 3.33U looked good, but then things went odd. I don’t know if it was the new-dose wonky, or what. We also don’t know if the first pm shot may have been a fur or skin shot, but 3 times?? Unfortunately we hadn’t tested overnight on those nights - will at least try for a 3-hour in future to be sure he got the insulin.
My husband was pushing to increase the dose, so we tried 3.75U, (the next easy-to-line-up dose on the syringes). Result was some pretty wild swings. Enough to set off a bounce? I got nervous and cut back to 3.33U for today.
Can anybody make any sense of these wild swings. We had the same kind of swings for Frodo on ProZinc, which is one of the reasons we switched to Lantus.

 

[tiffmaxee]

Hi. The drop from black or red to yellow is enough to trigger a bounce. Was your last condo on 5/25? It would be good start a new one each day so folks can see what is going on each day. Wild swings are quite common. Take a look at other people's spreadsheets. Look at my first one for 2014. Look at Mikey if you want to see big swings. Lantus takes time to level out. Look at the protocol again. It is also possible that Frodo goes lower at night creating more bounces. That is often the case for Max. Why did you so quickly go back down from 3.75? It can take 3 days to see what a dose will do and he didn't go low on the 4.75 that I see.

 

[Ella & Rusty & Stu(GA)]

Hi Ruth Ann,
Lantus likes consistency, so I would recommend settling on a dose and sticking with it for the required number of cycles (see the TR protocol). When you jump around in dose, you get wonky numbers. Also, you could be seeing a "delayed" new-dose wonkiness. If your syringes are giving you problems, why don't you buy some that are more reliable? Of the syringes that are available now, most people seem to prefer the BD U-100, 31 gauge, 8mm needle length, 3/10cc with 1/2-unit markings. You can buy them online at ADW Diabetes: http://www.adwdiabetes.com/product/bd-ultra-fine-insulin-syringes_6941_1.htm
All brands of syringes have inconsistencies with the lines. Many of us use calipers to measure. There is a "dose ruler" that the German Lantus group constructed specifically for the BD syringes. You will find a link to it here: http://www.diabetes-katzen.net/insulinruler.pdf
When you download and print out the ruler, make sure that your printer is set for A-4 paper (the standard European size). The measurements will not be accurate if your printer is set for standard American letter paper (8.5 x 11'').

Good luck!

Ella & Rusty

 

[julie & punkin (ga)]

The only green tests I spotted on both of his ss was after a 4.0u dose. That makes me wonder if you just haven't gotten to a good dose yet. My guess is he needs more insulin.

When a cat sits in high numbers their body gets used to it. Then one has to keep going up in dose to overcome the Glucose Toxicity. There is a link that explains more about it on the New to the Group sticky, near the bottom.

If I were you, I'd make sure to get a before bed test every night. I think it would likely be high, but then you could be confident in increasing the dose. Cats need as much as they need. Punkin got up to 15.5u.

 

[Wendy&Neko]

I think it's important that you find syringes with 1/2 unit markings so you can consistently dose in .25U amounts. As Ella said, Lantus likes consistency.

Since you've decided to follow the TR protocol, it's going to be really important to get at least one other test at night. That's when a lot of cats go lower. A before bed test is a good one. When I see a cycle like yesterday morning where he started Hi and there were no tests the night before, I wonder how low he got that night. If he's getting lower than he's used to (but not too low), the result is a bounce. That's a temporary condition of higher numbers that can last up to 6 cycles. Here's an explanation of bouncing. I think you were fine going up to 3.75 units. I'd go back up to that dose and hold it at least 6 cycles. The bounces will get better as he gets used to spending more time in normal numbers. For now, try not to worry about those temporary high numbers and look instead at how low the dose can get him.

As for whether you did a fur shot, you'd either feel liquid or smell insulin at the injection site if you did one. It's quite a distinctive smell.