6/18 Gizzy PMPS 79, +2 55, +4 37, +5.5 61, +6.25 69

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pistull

pistull

Member Since 2011
Gizzy has NEVER been this low before (37 @ +4) ....freeking out just a little.
He's not showing any symptoms of being hypo (he's always hungry so that's nothing new but I guess could be a symptom), but I gave him a 1/2 can of FF w/ gravy just to be safe. Should I give him more??
I plan to stay up with him throughout the night to monitor & test him. He's resting now and looks comfortable.
This is nerve-wracking! Should I be doing anything different??
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

P.S. I started him on Buprenex for arthritis pain control last week. His #'s have been pretty good since I started it. I wonder if he's been in pain all this time and that's why his #'s have been so irregular??
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

Usually you don't have to give them a half a can, but I can understand you being scared. Normally, just a spoonful should do it. I actually gave my cat gravy the first time he was in the mid 100's!! Check his BG every 15 minutes until it rises above 50 and then you can relax. I'll stay on in case you need help unless someone else more experienced comes on.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

Thanks so much! I've been doing this so long - you'd think I wouldn't get so freaked out....however, he's never been this low before! I'm wondering if he's been going this low the past few nights and I haven't paid attention to it! EEK!
So once it gets above 50, it shouldn't go back down again? I suppose by the time the food effect wears off, he's be farther along in his curve??
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

You will still have to watch him, but you don't have to worry as much. Because you gave such a large amount of 18% FF, Gizz is probably going to have a good size spike. Check his BG now and let me know what it is.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

patty's right. it's very possible pain was causing gizzy's numbers to be higher.
you'll want to retest in 15 minutes as patty mentioned. you might want to go easy on the hc food right now in case you need gizzy to continue eating for the next several hours. we don't want him to get too full and vomit. some of us squeeze the gravy out of the food and give it to bump numbers up without filling kitty up.

when does gizzy normally reach nadir? there are some hints that it might not be until +7 or +8, but i can't be sure after looking at his spreadsheet. do you know?

see you soon...
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

Just tested him....he's at 48 at +4.5 (1/2 hour after I gave him the gravy FF). I thought his #'s would zoom from that stuff - apparantly not! Is this normal? Should he be higher by now?
He seems ok - he's purring and just hanging out (and wondering why I keep bugging him!!)
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

Check him again in 15 minutes and don't feed him any more food so we can see if the HC is wearing off and his BG is going up or down.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

pistull said:
Just tested him....he's at 48 at +4.5 (1/2 hour after I gave him the gravy FF). I thought his #'s would zoom from that stuff - apparantly not! Is this normal? Should he be higher by now?
Click to expand...
it all depends on how carb sensitive the cat is and/or if the cat is over dose.

i'd let him have a little bit of hc gravy and retest in 30 minutes.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

As you can see, I haven't been great about curving him. His #'s have been all over the board (and vary from day to day) that I didn't want to put him through it.
His nadir has ranged from +7 to +12.
Nope, not feeding him anymore....I will continue to test.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

It's very important to have an approximate idea when Gizzy's nadir is in his cycle, but you don't have nearly enough info on his SS to be able to tell. Tonight is a good indication as to why you really need to try to get more checks throughout his cycle and get a curve done on a day when you can be home to check his BG every two hours for one full cycle. I know it's a pain, but it's all part of taking care of our kitties with FD!! If you can get BGs at +3 and +6 in a cycle would be a great start.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

I think being on this pain med will regulate his #'s some. (I hope anyway)
How often should I curve him and then do I just take the average of those nadirs if they are different?
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

pistull said:
As you can see, I haven't been great about curving him. His #'s have been all over the board (and vary from day to day) that I didn't want to put him through it.
His nadir has ranged from +7 to +12.
Nope, not feeding him anymore....I will continue to test.
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thinga are changing with gizzy. you'll have to start testing him more often. i think you'd agree testing is a whole lot better than putting him through a hypoglycemic event. if his nadir ranges from +7 thru +12, that's how long you'll have to remain vigilant tonight.

please give him a little gravy now... it's better to bump the numbers up now when you don't know when his nadir is.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

At the beginning, especially if you can't do too many spot checks throughout his morning and evening cycles because of work, etc., I would do a curve once a week so you can get an idea as to his patterns. Nadirs can switch around and aren't always consistent, but at least you'd be able to see if they're in the front part of his cycle or the latter part of his cycle which will give you a clue as to how to feed his low numbers. I know Champ usually nadirs at +6 or earlier so if he hits a low number at +4, I know he will be rising naturally in an hour or so and I don't want to carb him up too much.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

personally, i don't put as much stock in curves as i do daily random spot checks. a curve done on a day kitty is bouncing from a low yields absolutely no usable information what-so-ever.

specific spot checks will give you the following information:

--- when is onset
--- when is nadir
--- how much duration is gizzy getting from whatever dose he's on
--- how low each dose is taking him


always, always, always get a before bed spot check!
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

Do me a favor....go to your first post and edit the subject line with Gizzy's BGs so we can keep track with just a glance....makes it a bit easier than having to read through the posts!! :-D
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

I completely agree with Jill. I just thought if someone couldn't (or wouldn't) do spot checks, once weekly curves would be better than nothing. :-D
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

OK - he's going up....he's at 61 now (+5.25).

I will definitely test/curve him more. I come from the TR (tight regulation) camp where you are ridiculously aggressive with testing and dose him only if he needs it (above 150). I actually prefer that method much better than dosing every 12 hours. However, trying to have some sort of life with the TR model is difficult at best. It's hard enough having to be home every 12 hours to dose as it is.

So do you think I should still give him more food to be safe?
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

I don't know of any protocol using Lantus where you only dose when they're above 150. Lantus is a twice a day insulin, given as close to exactly 12 hours apart as possible. The protocol we follow is the Tight Regulation Protocol. If you look at Champ's SS, I test A LOT, but I need to go to Testaholic's Anonymous. :-D I work at home which is the only reason I'm able to do it. Others test more than me and others test a lot less. You test as often as you're able.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???

pistull said:
OK - he's going up....he's at 61 now (+5.25).

I will definitely test/curve him more. I come from the TR (tight regulation) camp where you are ridiculously aggressive with testing and dose him only if he needs it (above 150). I actually prefer that method much better than dosing every 12 hours. However, trying to have some sort of life with the TR model is difficult at best. It's hard enough having to be home every 12 hours to dose as it is.
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on another insulin, right? we're practicing TR here, but dosing every 12 hours is the name of the game for most.
yes, you'll have to start testing more often. you need to know onset, nadir, and duration as well as how low each dose is taking him... for safety's sake.

So do you think I should still give him more food to be safe?
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i think he's fine for now, but i would test him again at +6. you can probably feed him a little bit at +6 (hc or lc depending on the number). not sure when he'll hit his peak, so you'll have to continue checking for some time yet.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

OK - gave it to him. (He looked at me like - WHAT??? No gravy???) But he's eating it.... ;-)

THANK YOU, by the way, for staying up with me! You rock!!!!
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

I'm on the west coast so it's only 11 p.m. right now. I don't know how to go to bed this early. I live in Las Vegas after all!!!
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

forgot to mention...
gizzy has earned a reduction. i would suggest taking him down to 3.25 units.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

pistull said:
OK - gave it to him. (He looked at me like - WHAT??? No gravy???) But he's eating it.... ;-)
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please, go easy on the food right now. since we don't know if his nadir is a few hours out we don't want him to get too full now.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

I agree with Jill that you need to test again at +6. You need two rising numbers, with NO FOOD INFLUENCE, in order for you to hit the hay. Hope you don't have to get up early tomorrow!!
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

Vegas Baby!! I'm in dull Minnesota where it won't stop raining! :)
I wondered about a dose reduction...I will pull him back to 3.25 in the morning.
Till then, I'll keep cleaning my house and watching my buddy!
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

Patty & Champ said:
I agree with Jill that you need to test again at +6. You need two rising numbers, with NO FOOD INFLUENCE, in order for you to hit the hay. Hope you don't have to get up early tomorrow!!
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i'm sorry. i have to partially disagree with patty in this particular case. you've said gizzy nadirs sometime between +7 and +12. we're only at about +5.5 now. there's plenty of time for that hc to wear off. unless he starts to bounce, you'll need to continue checking him even if it means setting an alarm to get up.

sorry...
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

I'll keep watching him....I"m a Nervous Nellie about this stuff.... I won't be able to sleep anyway.

Thanks again for everything....
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

no problem. i'm glad patty was here. low numbers can be scary. i just happened to peek in here before going to bed.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

Jill has way more experience with this stuff than I, so please make sure you take her advice over mine. I am not in the least offended and I'm glad she's here to correct me.

I just read through the protocol. I've never even heard about this, even with all the research I did when Champ was first diagnosed. Jill is correct in that Dr. Hodgkin's specifically states that protocol is not for Lantus or Levemir, but for PZI. Did Gizzy used to be on PZI? I think I read that cats on PZI nadir later in their cycle than when they are on Lantus so maybe that's why you think his nadir is at +7 to +12.

And Las Vegas is a great town if you're a tourist. If you live here, you never go on the strip because of the traffic!!! My daughter goes to UNLV which is right in the center of all the action and she has to drive in that nasty traffic all the time to get to school and work. She works at Forever 21 which is the largest in the the world and she just got a job with Juicy Couture. Do I hear discount?!!
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

Patty & Champ said:
Jill has way more experience with this stuff than I, so please make sure you take her advice over mine. I am not in the least offended and I'm glad she's here to correct me.
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patty, it's not really a correction. i'm glad you're not offended. the advice you gave is purr-fect for most situations. this one is just a little different because we have no discernible nadir. for instance "if" gizzy happens to nadir at +12 tonight, you could conceivably have two non-food influenced rising numbers and he could still drop late in the cycle. ;-)
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

They have changed their approach and will not give any advice to Lantus users anymore. However, when Gizzy was first diagnosed in 2008 there were a couple gals on their site that were very experienced Lantus users and walked me thru every step of it (on a daily basis - it was unreal how much time they gave me!). I am still in contact with one of the gals from California (I call her Gizzy's guardian angel). She truly is amazing. Gizzy was exposed to the feline herpes virus when he had his teeth cleaned last year. His #'s have been completely out of whack since. I was trying to be more aggresive with his testing and dosing, but after 6 months I realized that I most likely would not get him off insulin this time. I haven't completely given up, but it doesn't look good to promising.

My college roomie lives in Vegas. I visited her last time I was out there...she said the same thing about living there. It is fun for a few days, but the craziness would definitely get old!
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

pistull said:
They have changed their approach and will not give any advice to Lantus users anymore. However, when Gizzy was first diagnosed in 2008 there were a couple gals on their site that were very experienced Lantus users and walked me thru every step of it (on a daily basis - it was unreal how much time they gave me!).
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i am very, very happy to hear they no longer give advice to lantus users on that site!

getting a kitty off insulin is tougher the second time around. alex is back on insulin for the third time now. :roll:
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

Geez, now he's sleeping so peacefully that I don't want to wake him to test him! I think I'll let him go a bit longer until I go to bed and test him right before.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

it's up to you. i don't know gizzy's history... don't know how long hc stays with him. don't know his nadir.
you're a better judge than i.

whatever you do, don't take it for granted that he'll stay up for the rest of the cycle...
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

I test Champ when he's sleeping. He'll twitch an eyebrow at me, but it doesn't seem to bother him. If you look at his SS from tonight, I was testing often and he was sleeping through most of it!!
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

I don't either....he hasn't had HC in years! I will definitely watch him throughout the night!
I'm not even sure what I'm watching for.... Will his #'s go down when HC wears off and then go back up again after he hits nadir? And when I see it start rising after the dip I can breathe a sign of relief??
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

pistull said:
I don't either....he hasn't had HC in years! I will definitely watch him throughout the night!
I'm not even sure what I'm watching for.... Will his #'s go down when HC wears off and then go back up again after he hits nadir? And when I see it start rising after the dip I can breathe a sign of relief??
Click to expand...
his numbers could go down again after the hc wears off if the insulin hasn't reached it's peak. i don't know if he'll dip low enough to require intervention.
yes, "if" he goes down again (a late nadir), once he begins to rise, you can breathe a sigh of relief.
i'm urging you to be cautious with your approach since we're dealing with quite a few unknowns tonight... up to and including how long the effects of the hc will stay with him. kwim?

69 @ +6.25 --- looking good for now. if he usually nadirs between +7 and +12 he may dip again.
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

I'll sign off now, but I'll check in every once in a while in case you need anything. I hope you set up a condo for Gizzy every day so we can follow him and help you out!!!
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

I think I'll be fine from here....
I will post more regularly so I can try to get him on track!
Have a great rest of the evening!!
 
Re: 6/18 - Gizzy.....Hypo???...climbing to 61

ok then, i'll be signing off, too.
post if you need anything. someone is usually around.
 
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