6/18 Ari PMPS 292, +1 322, +2 290, +3 122

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Ohwellok

Ohwellok

Member Since 2017
Hello,

I'm about ready to start my cat on insulin, but his BG keeps going down... He's been recovering from pancreatitis and teeth extractions, but I'd say he's pretty much back to normal now. He's been eating his Purina DM normally for a bit over a week. I'm testing him with an Alphatrack 2 meter and he's been getting BGs around 14 / 250 these last couple of days.

I'm wondering if I should wait some more to make sure his BG is stable or if I should start him on Lantus anyways? Also, what would be a good starting dose? My vet said 1u if he's bellow 25 / 450, but he's so far from that, I'm not sure if 1u is too much... Any suggestions would be appreciated!
 
Hello and welcome for another Canadian (west coast). Is that DM wet food you are feeding? You don't have to feed DM, any low carb wet food will do. But it's fine if he will eat it. How much does Ari weigh? Is it his ideal weight?

Ari is still in above normal BG numbers, so I think some insulin might be warranted, but maybe not as much as 1 unit. Take a read of the Sticky Notes in this forum, including the ones on our dosing methods to see what might suit you.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Hello and welcome for another Canadian (west coast). Is that DM wet food you are feeding? You don't have to feed DM, any low carb wet food will do. But it's fine if he will eat it. How much does Ari weigh? Is it his ideal weight?

Ari is still in above normal BG numbers, so I think some insulin might be warranted, but maybe not as much as 1 unit. Take a read of the Sticky Notes in this forum, including the ones on our dosing methods to see what might suit you.
Click to expand...

Hi! Yes DM wet. I've been reading about other wet food options, but Ari's had a lot of trouble with the recent food transition to high protein, low carb food and he only recently stopped having diarrhea. Also, I had an awful time trying to get him to eat anything a couple of weeks ago and he just started eating normally again so let's just say I'm not in a hurry to change anything right now.

He was at 11 pounds the last time he was weighed. He's on the skinny side.

I read the stickies about TR and the start low/go slow methods, and I prefer the latetr.
 
If you want to start with SLGS, his starting dose would be 0.5 units. I would start on a day when you can monitor and get some testing in. Some kitties have a strong initial reaction to insulin. Some don't. You can always change dosing methods down the road if you decide to.
 
Ditto what Wendy said.

Some cats do have a tougher transition to canned food and a GI upset can result. One thought, though, is that the ingredients in DM are not the best -- mostly animal by-products. It's hard to know if a better quality food would be easier on your cat's system.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
If you want to start with SLGS, his starting dose would be 0.5 units. I would start on a day when you can monitor and get some testing in. Some kitties have a strong initial reaction to insulin. Some don't. You can always change dosing methods down the road if you decide to.
Click to expand...

Ok, thank you for the confirmation, I'll go ahead with the 0.5u dose right now. It seams like such a tiny amount now that I've measured it with a syringe, I feel reassured :)
 
Sienne and Gabby (GA) said:
Ditto what Wendy said.

Some cats do have a tougher transition to canned food and a GI upset can result. One thought, though, is that the ingredients in DM are not the best -- mostly animal by-products. It's hard to know if a better quality food would be easier on your cat's system.
Click to expand...

I'm having trouble finding a replacement because I'm in quebec and the composition of most of what's available at pet stores (aside from fancy feast) is not on any charts. I'm going to have to try and work out the numbers for local brands, I think...
 
Ok, so first shot given... I cant really tell if it went in correctly because Ari moved and I'm not sure I was able to find the injection spot to check for wetness... I also didn't manage to pull a little to see if I got air or blood... What would happen if the insulin was not injected in a muscle?

I'm going to test his BG at +1 and +2. Should I do more?
 
Tagging @Photorecon and @Marvin's Mom - Nat who are also in Quebec, to see what they feed. I found most of the same foods on the catinfo list were available in B.C.

I would start with a +2 or +3 test. You want the insulin subq or under the skin, not into the muscle. Don't worry about the pulling back to see if you got blood. You can sniff the injection site to see if it all got in. Insulin has a very strong smell.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Tagging @Photorecon and @Marvin's Mom - Nat who are also in Quebec, to see what they feed. I found most of the same foods on the catinfo list were available in B.C.

I would start with a +2 or +3 test. You want the insulin subq or under the skin, not into the muscle. Don't worry about the pulling back to see if you got blood. You can sniff the injection site to see if it all got in. Insulin has a very strong smell.
Click to expand...

Oh, thanks for clarifying that, not sure why I thought it was intramuscular... Subq is easier! Ok, I'll do +2 and +3. Didn't smell anything strange so hopefully, that means Ari got his dose properly!
 
Wow, I didn't expect it to work, but I can definitely see the effect of the insulin now : BG is 6.8 at +3! Should I test again at +4?
 
I believe that @Photorecon did some research into President's Choice (Provigo) pates and found them comparable to Fancy Feast.

Edit: There are a couple of Global Pet Food stores in Montreal.
 
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I hope you did another test tonight. Or at least left some food out for him to munch on. Looks like Ari is one of those having a strong initial reaction. Depending what he did tonight, you may have to go down in dose.

Do you mind adding your meter type to your signature. It can impact what people suggest for dosing.
 
Hi,

I feed my little monsters with PC cat food (paté). They ca be found at Loblaws, Provigo and Maxi. I buy
them in boxes, where there is a mix of Turkey and Giblets, Beef and Chiken and liver. At one time I ended
up short of PC food and gave them Fancy Fiest, BG remain the same. The only thing I dont like with
Fancy Fiest is that their first ingredient is Liver, then comes the meat. PC start with meat and liver near
the end.

For shooting, don't hesitate to shoot all around the upper legs, not only the neck, you don't want to have
tissue built up with needle not going throught.

Hope you get the best of all the information coming from this gold mine that FMDB is.

Sébastien
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I hope you did another test tonight. Or at least left some food out for him to munch on. Looks like Ari is one of those having a strong initial reaction. Depending what he did tonight, you may have to go down in dose.

Do you mind adding your meter type to your signature. It can impact what people suggest for dosing.
Click to expand...

I didn't do another because he was still in the blues but I did check on him regularly all night. He didn't act strange and was back to a regular BG this morning.
I gave him the same amount this morning (still not sure I injected correctly...) but was only able to do a +4 and the drop wasn't as dramatic at that point. I'll continue with 0.5u tonight and will check +2 and +3 again.

He always has food out because I give him a full can morning/night (bowl is on an ice pack) and he eats most of it slowly throughout the day.

I added my meter to my signature!
 
Ohwellok said:
I didn't do another because he was still in the blues but I did check on him regularly all night. He didn't act strange
Click to expand...

The reason another test was suggested was that Ari was dropping fast at +3, this is early in the lantus cycle, the peak action of insulin being around +6. So even though he was blue at +3, it is very possible that he continued to drop further.

I'm glad you checked on him through the night, but, FWIW I've had George BG drop to 27 and he was acting normally. They often don't show any signs of their BG being too low, and by the time they do they can be having a symptomatic hypo and this is something best avoided.
I would suggest that going forward if you find numbers dropping fast like they were last night it would be wise to continue testing until you see them flatten out or rise.

He seems flat and yellow this morning. Hope you have a good PM cycle.
 
Photorecon said:
Hi,

I feed my little monsters with PC cat food (paté). They ca be found at Loblaws, Provigo and Maxi. I buy
them in boxes, where there is a mix of Turkey and Giblets, Beef and Chiken and liver. At one time I ended
up short of PC food and gave them Fancy Fiest, BG remain the same. The only thing I dont like with
Fancy Fiest is that their first ingredient is Liver, then comes the meat. PC start with meat and liver near
the end.

For shooting, don't hesitate to shoot all around the upper legs, not only the neck, you don't want to have
tissue built up with needle not going throught.

Hope you get the best of all the information coming from this gold mine that FMDB is.

Sébastien
Click to expand...

I did see the numbers for PC food on the canadian food list, I'll keep it in mind! Do you know if there's numbers somewhere for Mondou's O'select brand? Or Vetdiet?

Would that be the back of the upper legs, where the skin is looser? I'll see if Ari will let me inject there..

Gill & George said:
The reason another test was suggested was that Ari was dropping fast at +3, this is early in the lantus cycle, the peak action of insulin being around +6. So even though he was blue at +3, it is very possible that he continued to drop further.

I'm glad you checked on him through the night, but, FWIW I've had George BG drop to 27 and he was acting normally. They often don't show any signs of their BG being too low, and by the time they do they can be having a symptomatic hypo and this is something best avoided.
I would suggest that going forward if you find numbers dropping fast like they were last night it would be wise to continue testing until you see them flatten out or rise.

He seems flat and yellow this morning. Hope you have a good PM cycle.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the explanation. I only saw Wendy's suggestion the next morning and honnestly thought it was safe to stop testing. Your advice is duly noted and I'll make sure to continue testing when drops happen...
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Tagging @Photorecon and @Marvin's Mom - Nat who are also in Quebec, to see what they feed. I found most of the same foods on the catinfo list were available in B.C.

I would start with a +2 or +3 test. You want the insulin subq or under the skin, not into the muscle. Don't worry about the pulling back to see if you got blood. You can sniff the injection site to see if it all got in. Insulin has a very strong smell.
Click to expand...
Hi sorry for the very late response...

I actually went to mondu, and tried a few different kinds of grain free. the one I liked the best was vet diet, however I didn't know the actual carb content. If the calculation I found is correct, unfortunately it is about 14%. So learned that grain free does not mean low in carb... d'oh.

I also feed Marvin Purina Pro Plan DM most times, cause vet said there are more supplement to help with overall health, However it is getting too costly, so will probably change it up between morning and evening. I have used friskies Pate which is on one of the lists, and fancy feast pate. We really don't have a lot of options here. This week I tried hills MD... and hate it, it smells awful. It's too bad that vetdiet isn't lower in carbs, cause was my favorite.
 
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