6/15 -Oliver -+11=128, PMBG=126 I just can't do this again!

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FluffBunny

FluffBunny

Member Since 2014
6/15 - Oliver

Here we go again.

Last night, Oliver's BG didn't spike as much as usual. However, I am not sure how much of the pred. he got. I originally gave it to him at 4 PM, but I found it on the floor at 6 PM. Gave it to him again. Later last night, I found a partially digested capsule in his food bowl. It was about 2/3's gone, so I have no idea how much of the pred he actually got.

I am really afraid to shoot at 108, especially after yesterday's excitement. I'll wait awhile and retest.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, PMBG=108. Stalling again

If it were me, I wouldn't stall too long.

If I may make a suggestion for your SS. Take a look at Gabby's sheet. I stack the test info in the appropriate cell. You need to change the colors manually but it's much easier to see what's going on if the numbers are in the cell. It took a bit of searching to figure out why you reduced Oliver's dose.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, AMPS=122, +1=87, +1.5=64, +2-44, Oh, God!

Why is this happening again? I gave him only .25U. Just gave him some Gravy Lover's with a couple of drops of Karo in it. He ate a little. Not very enthusiastic.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, AMPS=122, +1=87, +1.5=64, +2-44, Oh, God!

He's really working even the little bit of juice....his pancreas is kicking in.

At least you got some karo and gravy into him. If necessary, do you have a little syringe that you could use to squirt some karo in his mouth? Don't do that just yet...it's just something to keep in mind as an option if he refused to take anything in on his own.

Come up Oliver....back up over 50 and SURF!!!
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, AMPS=122, +1=87, +1.5=64, +2-44, Oh, God!

When you give the gravy lover's try to just give the gravy part instead of the food part. Test and post in 20 min since last test please.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, AMPS=122, +1=87, +1.5=64, +2-44, Oh, God!

So if worse comes to worst, you can use the syringes to get a little karo into him, too. Hopefully, though, he'll bring himself up and start surfing.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, AMPS=122, +1=87, +1.5=64, +2-44, Oh, God!

Hi Linda,

You're doing really well so far. Remember to breathe!

Are you feeding HC right now. If you have then please wait 15 to 20 min and retest. Be sure to post updates to your subject line. If when you retest the number is still the same or going down then please continue with HC - remember it's the gravy you want him to eat. If he won't eat, syringe into his mouth or rub Karo on his gums. I'll wait to see how you're both doing. Breathe!

Sorry guys, I didn't see your posts - I'll back off and watch.
Anne
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, AMPS=122, +1=87, +1.5=64, +2-44, Oh, God!

Sorry guys, I didn't see your posts - I'll back off and watch.
Anne
Click to expand...

Sounds like you know Linda and Oliver, and I'm sure she would love hearing your input Anne :-D Please stick around.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, AMPS=122, +1=87, +1.5=64, +2=44,2.75=54

I did syringe some gravy with a little Karo into his mouth about 20 minutes ago.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, AMPS=122, +1=87, +1.5=64, +2=44,2.75=54

Just breathe, 44 isn't hypo in itself and Oliver is coming up. Was the 54 before or after syringing the karo and gravy?
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, AMPS=122, +1=87, +1.5=64, +2=44,2.25=54

Great. Above 50 now, but this will have something to do with the gravy and Karo. You need to keep testing every 20 minutes and posting the result for now. If you need to give some gravy again, just give gravy. I don't want you to be scared but I will let you know that usually you will need to keep doing this for at least an hour, sometimes more.
Don't give any food/gravy/etc while he is above 50. We want to be able to catch his natural climb when it happens. And like Anne mentioned, breath :smile: We are here watching for you!
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, AMPS=122, +1=87, +1.5=64, +2=44,2.25=54

Just adding my two cents. you are doing great, Just keep testing, every 30 minutes, 20 if need be. i agree with what Kim has posted. You need to keep at it until there is a two consecutive rises or steady numbers. For me I preferred the 70's as my stop the food part, as my guy was such a diver....

Good luck! you are doing great.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, AMPS=122, +1=87, +1.5=64, +2=44,2.25=54

Great work, Linda - you see you were able to guide him into safer numbers. You must feel good about that. Now you want to keep testing every 20 minutes to be sure Oliver's numbers are still going up. If you have some MC food, it might be helpful to give him some and retest. At some point, you want to discontinue feeding him and when you get two tests of increasing BG numbers, not due to food, then you can return to normal testing.

ATTA GIRL, LINDA!

Anne
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver AMPS=122 +1.5=64, +2=44,2.25=54, 2.75=74

It's going up pretty fast. I guess maybe I overdid it with the Karo syrup. I panic so easily. nailbite_smile
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver, AMPS=122, +1=87, +1.5=64, +2=44,2.25=54

Some kitties will battle in the low numbers for literally hours. When they do drop below 50 we must give them some carbs to bump them into safe numbers again. If we feed them when not needed, it could fill them up making them unable or not wanting to eat when we need them to. Because of this, we try to only give the gravy as opposed to the chewy food part, so that they don't get full on us and will eat the little bits of gravy offered as needed.
And yes, as mentioned, the two consecutive readings above 50 must not be food related numbers. I too liked to see Twice back in the higher green zone before I would back off the testing completely. After the two consecutive readings I would check hourly until then. He is a good natured pin cushion!
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver AMPS=122 +1.5=64, +2=44,2.25=54, 2.75=74

Karo gives them a big bump. But he could plummet again once it wears off. No food now, no gravy, no syrup. Retest and repost in 30 minutes. Well done :-D
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver AMPS=122 +1.5=64 +2=44,2.25=54, 2.75=74, +

Should I take the 911 off the post? (Not yet sure about the protocol here.)

I know we are not out of the woods yet, but I want to thank all of you who helped this morning. This is so much better when there are others available for advice and support.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver AMPS=122 +1.5=64 +2=44,2.25=54, 2.75=74, +

Yes you can take it off. That way if something happens again, it won't be assumed that it is the old 911.
So still no fuds, and another recheck in half an hour just to make sure it is completely food unrelated. You really handled it like a pro Linda :-D
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver AMPS=122 +1.5=64 +2=44,2.25=54, 2.75=74, +

You and Oliver have been pretty busy the past two days!!! Those lower numbers can sometimes be a big surprise and sometimes we do over react with the high carb stuff, but it's better to be safe than sorry I saw. You did excellent handling those low numbers, tho. Good Job!!!
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver AMPS=122,+4=90,+5=71 - Dropping again!

I was going to take a nap after this most recent reading. Guess I can't do that now. Will test again in 1/2 hour.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver AMPS=122,+1=87 +2=44, +3=82,+4=90,+5=71

well, at least Oliver is still in the greens :) just keep checking and things will be ok!
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver AMPS=122,+1=87 +2=44, +3=82,+4=90,+5=71

It's probably the Karo wearing off. Keep testing, but no need to panic yet.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver AMPS=122,+1=87 +2=44, +3=82,+4=90,+5=71

Oh, God! I was so focused on Oliver this morning that I forgot to give my heart/cancer patient his pills. Only the second time in more than 18 months that I have forgotten. :cry:
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver - +1=87 +2=44, +3=82,+4=90,+5=71, =5.5=86

I gave him some LC food. He hadn't eaten since this morning's crisis. I sure do need a nap.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver - +8=127. Question about syringes.

My new syringes with the 1/2U markings came today. Someone said that, when I switched to these syringes, the dose might change. I don't understand, but I thought I would ask.

Old syringes were Sunmark Ulticare 3/10cc/ml. for U-100 insulin for doses up to 30 units - 1/2 inch needles, 30 gauge .

The new syringes are Terumo Thinpro 3/10cc for U-100 insulin for 30 units or less - 3/8 inch neele, 31 gauge.

The needle length on the new syringes is slightly shorter and the gauge is slightly smaller. Does this matter to dosage? Is the 1 Unit mark on my old syringes the same as the 1U mark on the new ones?

Also, on the top of the Thinpro box it says, "Caution: before changing to a shorter needle, consult with a health care professional." What is that all about?
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver - +8=127. Question about syringes.

Good job today, Linda.

Yes. It's possible the dose might change but it likely would not be by much. If you had been using Monojects and were switching to a syringe, like Terumos, that don't have a hub that holds insulin, then it could change by quite a bit. And some say that a longer needle can tend to increase absorption. I would expect that is an ECID thing. I was using shorter needles and switched to Terumos which only come in one size (3/8") and did not notice any change. So I really doubt that you'll see a change due to needle length and not likely at all due to gauge.

However, all the syringes are really inaccurate. If you look closely at them, you'll see the zero line can be quite variable which means your dose will be variable. For some cats, like my Gracie, it makes a difference. For other cats, it doesn't seem to. Many of us dose using calipers to help us dose most accurately but some don't. Whether you use calipers or not, it won't affect whether he becomes regulated or goes into remission.

If you'd like more info on using calipers, you can read this post on Dosing with Calipers. Let me know if you have questions.

The 44 today could have been action from the depot. He is also on his way up. IMHO, I'd continue to shoot the 0.25u for now. If he goes below 50 again, I'd reduce the dose but we like to be careful about taking reductions too close together.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver - +8=127. Question about syringes.

I have no clue what that warning is about! I certainly didn't consult with my vet when I switched from a Monoject to Terumo syringe. I'm not familiar with the Uticare syringe. The reason the dose can change, though, is that some syringes have a "hub" at the point where the needle inserts into the body of the syringe. The hub is a space that fills with insulin but isn't calibrated on the barrel of the syinge. As a result, there's more insulin in the syringe than with the Terumo, which doesn't have a hub. I had to increase Gabby's dose with the Terumo syringe in order that Gabby was getting the same amount of insulin when I switched syringes. If you're not sure, get a piece of wax paper or plastic wrap and draw up 1.0u of water in each syringe. Expel the water onto the nonabsorbent surface and see if the amounts look the same.

You also asked why Oliver's numbers dropped today. It's likely that the depot is still a bit full from the dose yesterday. It can take several cycles for the depot to catch up to your current dose.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver -Question about syringes and another questi

First, I have to confess to accidentally feeding Oliver some HC food at +6. I was half asleep and grabbed a can of grilled FF that was in with his Classic. I sort of knew it was HC, but I wasn't thinking too clearly at the time. (You can see from my spreadsheet that I haven't gotten much sleep the last couple of days.)

Now for my other question. The accidental feeding might change this - but I was thinking about skipping both his prednisolone dose and his shot tonight. I changed him from 2.5 mg to 1.25 mg of pred. once a day about 3 weeks ago. His BG readings have been getting lower and lower, even though I have reduced his insulin dose significantly since then. (I started out at 2U.) I was thinking about skipping his pred. dose tonight and also the insulin shot to see what his BG numbers do tomorrow. How much will this mess up my progress?

In addition to an experiment, I sure could use a good night's sleep. I am so afraid of hypoglycemia that I wake up every hour or two to check on my boy.

BTW, I eyeballed 1U on both syringes and they looked about the same to me. I compared them several times using water on waxed paper. Since I was eyeballing 1/2 and 1/4 units on my old syringes, I think the difference in using the new syringes will be negligible.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver -Question about syringes and another questi

You can't eyeball it and I don't think the wax paper will work either. I did several scientific experiments trying to translate the dose between syringes and I finally ended up borrowing a micropippetor from a friend. It is the most accurate way to measure volumes. I found 1u in the Monojects I was using was actually 1.46u. Yes...that big of a difference.

If you skip his pred dose tonight, then I'd be consistent and give it every other night for a week (you should really discuss it with your vet). But I wouldn't skip it tonight and go back to giving it every night. You lowered the dose to sid; now the next step would be to give the lower dose EOD. Your vet can tell you if/how he wants you to taper it down from there.

It's not possible to say if his numbers will go up tonight or not without the insulin. He might be blue tonight and start up tomorrow. But the other thing that I think is more important to consider is your own health. If you are exhausted and you need a break, then skip. He will get back on track within a cycle or two (or perhaps even faster). Just pretend you gave a fur shot ;-)
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver -Question about syringes and another questi

I have discussed lowering the prednisolone again with my vet. She didn't want me to change anything until I had his insulin regulated. I just gave him his prednisolone. I will shoot tonight based on his test results. :YMSIGH:

I understand that "eyeballing" is not an accurate way to measure a dose but it is the best I can do at the moment. Will look into getting calipiers.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver -+11=128, PMBG=126 I just can't do this ag

I don't think I can shoot tonight. I know I am going to regret this, but I am exhausted and I can't deal with another plummeting BG tonight. I did give him his pred. so he will probably spike in a couple of hours. I just hope I don't mess up the progress we have made.

We both need a rest.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver -+11=128, PMBG=126 I just can't do this ag

you have to do what you have to do. You need rest, you can not go on without sleep and not make mistakes, and you can not afford to do that, especially at work.

I will hope that the spike is not to high tho!
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver -+11=128, PMBG=126 I just can't do this ag

((((Linda)))

It's absolutely ok to skip! You must take care of yourself or you can't take care of him. It doesn't matter if he's going up or continues up. He'll get back on track. If you want to grab a before bed test just to make sure he's still headed up and didn't come back down, then that's great. But do not stress about skipping.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver -+11=128, PMBG=126 I just can't do this ag

Well, the good news is that I am retired, so I don't have to worry about work. But I am afraid of making mistakes with my boys. I forgot to give my cancer/heart patient his meds this morning. And I accidentally gave Oliver HC food this evening. I really do need some sleep.

Maybe I'll just pretend it was a fur shot tonight.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver -+11=128, PMBG=126 I just can't do this ag

You should. Whatever you need to do to make yourself be ok with it. We have to have lives. I've skipped for a golf tournament; Amy has skipped for Bruce Springsteen concerts; other members have skipped because they needed to rest. It's not uncommon. It's also not uncommon to give fur shots.

What I don't want you to do is worry or beat yourself up. You'd be surprised how quickly they can recover from a skipped shot.
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver -+11=128, PMBG=126 I just can't do this ag

In addition to what Marje said, we've all given a fur shot. Life will go on. Take care of yourself!
 
Re: 6/15 -Oliver -+11=128, PMBG=126 I just can't do this ag

And when I said you can't eyeball it, I meant you can't eyeball the difference between two syringes. You can eyeball a dose :-D
 
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