6/14 Henry AMPS=345 PMPS=327 +4=309 +8=306 Ketones 5.8 / 4.3

John & Henry

Member Since 2022
Previous thread: https://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/thr...-1-6-5-298-8-301-pmps-304-ketones-2-3.264403/

/sigh I'm starting to get incredibly frustrated. I thought things were going better, the ketones seemed to be in check and then last night I checked his ketones and they were 5.8 -- higher than I've ever seen. I hadn't been checking the BG or ketones as frequently because I was nearly out of strips (of both) and I had an order in to ADW that wasn't due in til Thursday (luckily they came today).

His eating (and especially drinking) have been off the charts! He's been drinking 300-600ml per day and eating anything I'll give him. He's also been creating an incredible about of litter, but that's another story.

I sent the glucose curve to the vet last night and followed up with a phone call today worried about his ketones being 5.8 last night. She just returned my call, and didn't seemed very concerned. She did seem pretty annoyed I increased his insulin to 1.25U and grilled me on how I was able to even measure out such a small dose. I told her some people use calipers, but I had just been pulling back the plunger between half way and the mark (basically eye balling it). She said, "Well, 1/4 unit isn't even a thing", I wanted to mention how some people actually dose 1/10 units, but I also want to keep on her good side and choose my battles. She also seemed annoyed I was checking his ketones and BG so frequently "The ketones change over time, and maybe it would be better if you check the ketones in his urine since that would give a better indication of his overall ketone production", OK that sounds about 10 times more difficult, but I guess I could attempt it. She also said, outside of charting a BG curve the only reason to check BG is to make sure he isn't going hypo after a dosage increase. "Frequently picking his ear, is just going to make him hate it and make it more difficult for us when we have to do it on him", I explained that he was totally cool with the ear pokes and didn't even flinch anymore. She summed up the call by basically saying, "So long as he's eating and drinking well, you shouldn't worry" :banghead: Except last time by the time he stopped eating and drinking, he needed to be hospitalized immediately IE. it's too late to do anything by that point.

So I was terrified last night (with the 5.8 ketone reading) that he was going to go into DKA again, and be back in the hospital. I really can't afford another $8,000 vet bill. Maybe that's what she wants? more business?

She did say I could raise his dose to 2 units, so I guess she isn't doing nothing.

I think I'm going to go take some xanax :(
 
It's time to increase to 1.5 units. With TR, we hold doses with blue nadirs 6-10 cycles. Today is cycle 20. You are holding doses too long. Besides, it'll be easier to explain how you draw the 1.5 unit dose.

Your vet sounds like one of those that you do the "smile and nod" routine.

How are you feeling now?
 
It's time to increase to 1.5 units. With TR, we hold doses with blue nadirs 6-10 cycles. Today is cycle 20. You are holding doses too long. Besides, it'll be easier to explain how you draw the 1.5 unit dose.

Your vet sounds like one of those that you do the "smile and nod" routine.

How are you feeling now?

Every day has been better, still a bit tired, but I think the worst of it is over... Hopefully I don't get "long covid". I guess I just won't send the vet his spreadsheet anymore, and just send her the BG curves when she requests it. So you think I should just disregard her request for the increase to 2U and only go to 1.5U? I really want to get his ketones into check, and I don't feel like 2U would risk him going hypo. I get it might not be following the protocol going straight to 2U, but I'm pretty worried. Also, since it is kinda hard to eye ball 1/4, and with the worry I've had lately, it's likely I've been pulling the plunger back further than 1/4.. (Ie, his dose has probably been closer to the half way point anyway.)
 
You've seen some almost mid level blues on this current dose, I think going up 0.75 units to 2.0 units would be too much. Better instead to follow protocol. Increase smaller amounts but faster as per the TR protocol. Now that you're feeling better it's time to get Henry to a good dose as fast as can be done safely.

The problem with holding doses longer is that you can get glucose toxicity developing, and they get used to higher numbers.
 
I agree with Wendy about following the protocol and increasing in 0.25 unit increments and increasing the dose to 1.5 units now.
I’m sorry you have been so unwell with covid and haven’t been able to post as frequently as you normally do.
 
Reading back on the threads, I suggested you could increase the dose on 6/9 to 1.5 units after 6 cycles if you did not see any green. However maybe it didn’t register with you because you were unwell with covid.
 
Reading back on the threads, I suggested you could increase the dose on 6/9 to 1.5 units after 6 cycles if you did not see any green. However maybe it didn’t register with you because you were unwell with covid.
Yeah, I've really only started coming out of my "covid fog" yesterday. I'll up it to 1.5U tonight. So if there's no green, then we'd go to 1.75U in 6 cycles, am I getting that right?
 
So if there's no green, then we'd go to 1.75U in 6 cycles, am I getting that right?
I totally get the covid fog bit. I’m sure it has been really hard for you having you both unwell and looking after Henry.
The short answer is yes to the increase, but I would post and ask here first before increasing because of the history of the DKA. If necessary, if ketones showed up we could increase earlier but it would have to be done under supervision. Posting daily is a good idea at this point so that we can keep a track of the SS and the ketones, appetite and drinking.
 
Ketones were back up to 5.7 last night. He's still eating well, but not drinking as much. Just checked ketones and the meter is reading HI, which means it's higher than the meter can read, BG still in the 300s. Could the insulin be bad? Should I go get that prescription diet food? Really upsetting and wish there was something I could do. I feel like DKA is inevitable at this point :(
 
Could the insulin be bad?
Have you kept it in the fridge? But not gotten frozen? Then it's OK.
Should I go get that prescription diet food?
Higher carb food/poorer quality food is not the answer.

There is a phenomenon we call New Dose Wonkiness, that can happen after an increase. It results in higher numbers in the first couple cycles of the new dose. We don't know why, possibly to do with the depot building. It's temporary.

Can you check to see if he's hydrated? If you pick up his scruff, does it snap back down? Are his gums slick or tacky?

Lastly, could you start a new post for today.
 
Have you kept it in the fridge? But not gotten frozen? Then it's OK.

Higher carb food/poorer quality food is not the answer.

There is a phenomenon we call New Dose Wonkiness, that can happen after an increase. It results in higher numbers in the first couple cycles of the new dose. We don't know why, possibly to do with the depot building. It's temporary.

Can you check to see if he's hydrated? If you pick up his scruff, does it snap back down? Are his gums slick or tacky?

Lastly, could you start a new post for today.

Yes, I've kept it in the fridge, although there has been 3 instances where it was left out for 12 hours (so 36 hours total), no it hasn't frozen. His scruff doesn't snap back down, but it's the same as its been since he's been home from the hospital. I think its due to all the extra skin he has after losing so much weight. Prior to today his drinking has been incredible. More than I've ever seen him drink in his life. I did just get him to drink some from the tap, but he hasn't touched his water since I refilled it this morning. His gum appear to be slick and not tacky. I'll start a new thread.
Thank you!
 
An interesting thing to note: my dog has been heavily sniffing around his head the last couple days, before I even got that first 5.8 reading. I wonder if she was smelling the ketones. I know they say they can be smelled on the breath and dogs can be trained to alert on the scent.
 
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