6/10 Samba PMPS 393 +1 381 +2 276 +3 204 +4 213 +7.5 317

[Sarah Mc]

http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/...-3-287-4-293-5-282-6-263.179041/#post-1979196

I am happy with Samba's curve today, especially since he had to deal with the stress of going to the vet on top of it. @Marje and Gracie, I only fed him at AMPS and +1 since we then left for the vet and I remembered what you said about feeding too late in the cycle putting brakes on the action of the insulin...would have normally fed him again when we got home at +5 but just gave him a little chicken treat instead..thank you..I think that helped. He has been nice and flat in pretty blue numbers since then

His weight did go up a lot since his last vet appt on 2/11/17... he is now back to his original weight, which is overweight (14lbs 4oz) but had gotten down to 10lbs when he was first diagnosed on 12/31/17 and was 11lbs 10oz on 2/11/17. I am surprised because I was feeding him 12oz of Fancy Feast a day until about three weeks ago when I reduced it to 10.5oz per day when I noticed he had gotten a little heavier... I thought that you're supposed to feed one ounce per every pound of the cat's ideal body weight? I was thinking of taking his daily intake down to 9oz daily if you're in agreement? I thought I read somewhere that obesity can contribute to insulin resistance? Have been reading so much lately, so maybe I'm wrong about that. I just want him to live a long, healthy life

Hope everyone is having a great weekend!!!!

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Hi Sarah!

I'm glad it went well at the vet. I'm out running errands but I've never heard that you should feed an ounce for each pound of weight.

My Tobey weighs 11 lbs 11 oz and eats 4 oz of raw a day. Raw is more nutrient dense but if I had fed Gracie 8.5 oz of canned food a day instead of 3, she would have been a bowling ball

As soon as I get home, I'll provide some info on amounts to feed.

Lovely numbers today!

 

[Sarah Mc]

Hi Sarah!

I'm glad it went well at the vet. I'm out running errands but I've never heard that you should feed an ounce for each pound of weight.

My Tobey weighs 11 lbs 11 oz and eats 4 oz of raw a day. Raw is more nutrient dense but if I had fed Gracie 8.5 oz of canned food a day instead of 3, she would have been a bowling ball

As soon as I get home, I'll provide some info on amounts to feed.

Lovely numbers today!

Oh gosh...someone on here awhile back told me that feeding him two cans (6oz) a day would not be enough for a cat...I am totally confused!

No rush at all, but could you tell me if the difference in numbers today between his +8 and +9 says anything about his duration? You mentioned that I need to figure out what the duration of the insulin is.. thanks!

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Oh gosh...someone on here awhile back told me that feeding him two cans (6oz) a day would not be enough for a cat...I am totally confused!

No rush at all, but could you tell me if the difference in numbers today between his +8 and +9 says anything about his duration? You mentioned that I need to figure out what the duration of the insulin is.. thanks!

The quality of the ingredients of the food, the way the cat metabolizes the food, etc, all have a role in how much food a cat needs. Cats are like people in that one cat can eat a small amount and put on weight and another can eat a lot and not. Dr. Lisa suggest that cats eating canned food should get no less than 15 calories/pound and that is the lowest end. She states that most cats need 150-250 calories a day.

Here is a more detailed formula that she uses (optimal lean body weight is what he should weigh):
Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70

What she also suggests is that you weigh kitty. Figure out how many calories/day you are feeding and feed it for one week. After one week, weigh him again (approximately at the same time and same conditions....e.g. after breakfast for instance). If he gained weight and you don’t want him to, he needs less food. If he’s the same and that’s where you want him, then you are feeding the right amount of food. If he lost weight and you didn’t want him to, feed more.

It’s important that if he has gained weight and you don’t want him to, that you cut back calories very, very, very slowly and weight him every 3-4 days. He should not lose more than 1% of his weight a week. I see your note about cutting his amount of food back by 1.5 oz/day. That seems like a big cut of calories to me. You might want to go it a little slower. I know $$ are tight, but it’s helpful to invest in a cat scale. This is very similar to the one I have; a baby scale also works just fine so you might want to shop around (Walmart, etc). Since obesity can make cats, like people, more insulin resistant, I think it is a good investment.

For her detailed explanation about how much to feed and how cats should lose weight if they need to, you can read her page on Feline Obesity. Even though your little guy is far, far from being obese, that page just has some really good basic information.

Insofar as his +8 and +9.5 today. Yes...it looks to me like he lost duration and also that he is likely starting a bounce by PMPS. One way to tell if it is solely duration and not a bounce is that if it’s duration, the numbers will likely come right back down as soon as he onsets. While you didn’t feed him anything that could have caused an issue with his duration, it can happen. It’s also possible that you will see some new dose wonkiness.

Great job on the note keeping. That helps us help you

I’ll check back soon....time to make cat fud!

 

[Wendy&Neko]

Marje gave you some good info on amounts to feed. As a comparison, my Neko (larger as she was both Maine Coon cross and had acromegaly) was a good weight at around 14 lbs. She also ate four ounces of raw per day, or around 5.5 oz or one can of wet food. Depending on the type of raw or canned food, around 180-200 calories worked for her. But she wasn't exactly a kitten with her activity either, she had bad arthritis.

 

[Sarah Mc]

The quality of the ingredients of the food, the way the cat metabolizes the food, etc, all have a role in how much food a cat needs. Cats are like people in that one cat can eat a small amount and put on weight and another can eat a lot and not. Dr. Lisa suggest that cats eating canned food should get no less than 15 calories/pound and that is the lowest end. She states that most cats need 150-250 calories a day.

Here is a more detailed formula that she uses (optimal lean body weight is what he should weigh):
Required calories per day = [13.6 X optimal lean body weight in pounds] + 70

What she also suggests is that you weigh kitty. Figure out how many calories/day you are feeding and feed it for one week. After one week, weigh him again (approximately at the same time and same conditions....e.g. after breakfast for instance). If he gained weight and you don’t want him to, he needs less food. If he’s the same and that’s where you want him, then you are feeding the right amount of food. If he lost weight and you didn’t want him to, feed more.

It’s important that if he has gained weight and you don’t want him to, that you cut back calories very, very, very slowly and weight him every 3-4 days. He should not lose more than 1% of his weight a week. I see your note about cutting his amount of food back by 1.5 oz/day. That seems like a big cut of calories to me. You might want to go it a little slower. I know $$ are tight, but it’s helpful to invest in a cat scale. This is very similar to the one I have; a baby scale also works just fine so you might want to shop around (Walmart, etc). Since obesity can make cats, like people, more insulin resistant, I think it is a good investment.

For her detailed explanation about how much to feed and how cats should lose weight if they need to, you can read her page on Feline Obesity. Even though your little guy is far, far from being obese, that page just has some really good basic information.

Insofar as his +8 and +9.5 today. Yes...it looks to me like he lost duration and also that he is likely starting a bounce by PMPS. One way to tell if it is solely duration and not a bounce is that if it’s duration, the numbers will likely come right back down as soon as he onsets. While you didn’t feed him anything that could have caused an issue with his duration, it can happen. It’s also possible that you will see some new dose wonkiness.

Great job on the note keeping. That helps us help you

I’ll check back soon....time to make cat fud!

Thanks for this info. Based on her formula, it looks like 2.5 cans per day (7.5oz) might be right for him... approx. 89 calories a can and using 11lbs as his ideal body weight (that's just a guess).

80% of his current intake (3.5 cans) is a little less than 3 cans, and on the link you sent, she says the following:

"There are three ways to arrive at a starting figure for the amount of calories to be fed.

First method:

The most accurate way is to calculate how many calories your cat is currently eating to maintain his not-so-svelte figure. Then take 80% of those calories as a starting point."

Based on this info, is a reduction from 3.5 cans a day to 3 cans a day okay or do you still think it's too drastic? I can't afford the scale right now, but I will get paid for my 2nd job tomorrow and will order it then. My 2nd job basically pays for Samba and then I can keep an eye on how much he is losing and make sure it isn't more than 1% of his body weight.

 

[Sarah Mc]

Marje gave you some good info on amounts to feed. As a comparison, my Neko (larger as she was both Maine Coon cross and had acromegaly) was a good weight at around 14 lbs. She also ate four ounces of raw per day, or around 5.5 oz or one can of wet food. Depending on the type of raw or canned food, around 180-200 calories worked for her. But she wasn't exactly a kitten with her activity either, she had bad arthritis.

Thank you! That was helpful for me to understand that I have been feeding him way too much

 

[Sarah Mc]

Marje gave you some good info on amounts to feed. As a comparison, my Neko (larger as she was both Maine Coon cross and had acromegaly) was a good weight at around 14 lbs. She also ate four ounces of raw per day, or around 5.5 oz or one can of wet food. Depending on the type of raw or canned food, around 180-200 calories worked for her. But she wasn't exactly a kitten with her activity either, she had bad arthritis.

Samba is also getting less activity now because he has a smaller living space since we moved

 

[Sarah Mc]

Insofar as his +8 and +9.5 today. Yes...it looks to me like he lost duration and also that he is likely starting a bounce by PMPS. One way to tell if it is solely duration and not a bounce is that if it’s duration, the numbers will likely come right back down as soon as he onsets. While you didn’t feed him anything that could have caused an issue with his duration, it can happen. It’s also possible that you will see some new dose wonkiness.

So since he is trending downward again, it looks like it's duration, right? I still don't get what his duration equals though...would it be the number of hours from onset (we don't know the exact time since he was at the vet) to +9.5? Sorry so many questions..no rush replying! Also mentally preparing for a very active cycle... and I fed a tsp. of MC again

 

[Marje and Gracie]

So since he is trending downward again, it looks like it's duration, right? I still don't get what his duration equals though...would it be the number of hours from onset (we don't know the exact time since he was at the vet) to +9.5? Sorry so many questions..no rush replying! Also mentally preparing for a very active cycle... and I fed a tsp. of MC again

Good job....we want him to flatten.

If it's duration, he will come back down quite a bit. If he stays in yellow, pink, it wasn't likely duration. I know it's a bit hard to tell since we are managing the curve.

Normally, we want to try and manage the curve with LC as much as we possibly can. But giving a small amount of MC can help us get some data on carb sensitivity and, hopefully, get him a bit flatter. It's just when they get flatter, sometime the numbers are hard to take because they will generally be higher. But then we go to the next step.

I don't know how many calories is in the food you are feeding so cutting back 1/2 a can might be a lot of calories.

 

[Sarah Mc]

Re: the food, for today, I think that I will stick with 3 cans/9oz, only because, due to the vet today, he only got one can this AM, and I don't think I can give him more than 2 cans tonight between PMPS +1, +2 & +3 without it making him sick. @Marje and Gracie, if you feel I should take him back up to more than 9oz tomorrow, I will do that. Thanks again!!!

 

[Sarah Mc]

I don't know how many calories is in the food you are feeding so cutting back 1/2 a can might be a lot of calories.

89 calories so that's 44.5 calories per half can

 

[Marje and Gracie]

89 calories so that's 44.5 calories per half can

I was thinking more along the lines of decreasing by 20 cal a week and see how he does. I don't think it's a big deal tonight to worry about it.

He didn't slow down as much to isn't so far.

It's ok to modify the subject line and only include the PMPS cycle or you might run out of space.

 

[Sarah Mc]

I was thinking more along the lines of decreasing by 20 cal a week and see how he does. I don't think it's a big deal tonight to worry about it.

He didn't slow down as much to isn't so far.

It's ok to modify the subject line and only include the PMPS cycle or you might run out of space.

I'm gonna go ahead with feeding 9.75oz today instead of 9oz. That is a quarter can reduction from what he was getting previously (3.5 cans or 10.5oz) and about a 22 calorie reduction. Thanks so much for your guidance!