6/10 Boris Amps 211, +2.5 252, +7 171, +9 155, +11.5 67!!! Help

Nathalie & Boris

Nathalie & Boris

Member Since 2022
Bounce Day! Hopefully he'll clear in 1-2 cycles like he has the past few times he bounced.

Based on yesterday's dive from a 108 PMPS to 37 in +2, I'm now a little wary of shooting a green PS number like a few cycles back. He did eat at PMPS, +1, and +2 last night.

Any advice on how to prepare for this in case I can't be home to take as many readings? Ex. If he's been green most of the cycle before and has a PS under 120 should I feed a high carb meal at feeding? I don't want to mess up his progress, but I also don't want to run out to jobs one day and him be diving into hypo.

Currently I'm trying to break his meals up as described above, but that didn't seem to help last night. Any thoughts on this from more experienced members is welcome.

https://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/posts/2961557/
 
With yesterday's evening's +1 already dropping by more than 20% from preshot, that might have been a good place to give some higher LC and I would have checked at +2 and fed again some higher LC or possibly MC depending on that value to prop him up, since it seems +2.5 was just a wee bit too late.

The +1 will give you a good idea of how much of a food bump you are getting, so when you can get one in especially when you have a lower preshot, it will be useful data for when you might have to leave and not be able to test. If you find that he doesn't get much of a food bump, that might change your approach as to what to feed at preshot. Also, if I was ever in doubt at preshot and knew that I'd only be able to test once more before I was out the door, I would use either higher LC or some 11-12% (depending on how carb sensitive you find him usually to be), and leave additional MC snacks for him to have fresh carbs. Sometimes they just decide regardless that they want a reducie.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
With yesterday's evening's +1 already dropping by more than 20% from preshot, that might have been a good place to give some higher LC and I would have checked at +2 and fed again some higher LC or possibly MC depending on that value to prop him up, since it seems +2.5 was just a wee bit too late.

The +1 will give you a good idea of how much of a food bump you are getting, so when you can get one in especially when you have a lower preshot, it will be useful data for when you might have to leave and not be able to test. If you find that he doesn't get much of a food bump, that might change your approach as to what to feed at preshot. Also, if I was ever in doubt at preshot and knew that I'd only be able to test once more before I was out the door, I would use either higher LC or some 11-12% (depending on how carb sensitive you find him usually to be), and leave additional MC snacks for him to have fresh carbs. Sometimes they just decide regardless that they want a reducie.
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Yeah last night was a surprise because he was just coming back up at PMPS. Had I not had 5 women in my house for a bible study I would have checked earlier. Didn't expect during an hour while he was still getting feedings that he would dive like that based on the day cycle numbers. But like you said, sometimes they decide they are ready for a reducie regardless of what we do.

He's already down to 209 @ +3.5 so that makes me think the bounce won't last too long today. Going to go take of clients while he is still running high. Luckily I'm able to somewhat plan my days around BG checks, and try to make sure I'm home during suspected drop time. Unfortunately, he doesn't stay consistent for long. Yesterday I ran home multiple times between clients and work errands to check because I was worried every time I left. Don't always have the luxury when clients are a 45 min drive away. Today, I'm paying someone to handle checking on jobs and deliveries for me that are too far for me to get back and check him.
 
Last number I see on the SS is 155. Please update it. And maybe take a second test to confirm it wasn't a wonky test.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
Last number I see on the SS is 155. Please update it. And maybe take a second test to confirm it wasn't a wonky test.
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I added to the thread and forgot to put on spreadsheet. Added now. I'll take one now and update in a sec. From past experience he takes dives like this though.
 
You've shot green before. You have a few options, but first some questions. Can you monitor tonight? Do you have plenty of HC and test strips? If you were to delay, how late can you delay and still be OK with the delayed schedule tomorrow morning. I'm not suggesting a delay, not the ideal solution. I think he needs food in him to stop the drop, but not yet.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
You've shot green before. You have a few options, but first some questions. Can you monitor tonight? Do you have plenty of HC and test strips? If you were to delay, how late can you delay and still be OK with the delayed schedule tomorrow morning. I'm not suggesting a delay, not the ideal solution. I think he needs food in him to stop the drop, but not yet.
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I can monitor him tonight. I can also give him the higher carb options, raw dehrdrated HC mixed with med carb wet food. Keeping schedule is better. Just want to make sure I should still shoot the 2.75 or reduce. I guess I can see what happens tonight and go from there.?
 
It’s the depot keeping him low which can effect about 4-6 cycles. If he continues to be hard to bring up using hc it might require another reduction. He just might bounce after all the hc. Let’s see how it plays out and where he is in the morning. You might need to skip if low at amps to drain the depot but again it’s too early to decide that. If low it also depends on whether you can monitor tomorrow.
 
tiffmaxee said:
It’s the depot keeping him low which can effect about 4-6 cycles. If he continues to be hard to bring up using hc it might require another reduction. He just might bounce after all the hc. Let’s see how it plays out and where he is in the morning. You might need to skip if low at amps to drain the depot but again it’s too early to decide that. If low it also depends on whether you can monitor tomorrow.
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I can be home most of the day to watch him tomorrow. He's really got me on edge and worried tonight. And yes, after all the HC and honey, he may go sky high later. Who knows with this guy. He's full of surprises these last two days.
 
You want at least mid 50’s to extend the test times. I’d try lc if over 60 but he might drop again. He leads the dance. I know it’s stressful but you are doing great.
 
tiffmaxee said:
Test again in 20 minutes. Rinse, lather, repeat until in safe numbers. Then you can increase time between tests. I’ll keep checking back.
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+20 min still at 40. Gave a little caro syrup and will test again in 20. At least he's holding at 40 I guess. He seems to be fine which is the craziest part. No yowling, just chilling and wishing I would quit poking him. Although I'm sure he's enjoying his kings feast tonight.
 
tiffmaxee said:
It’s the depot keeping him low which can effect about 4-6 cycles. If he continues to be hard to bring up using hc it might require another reduction. He just might bounce after all the hc. Let’s see how it plays out and where he is in the morning. You might need to skip if low at amps to drain the depot but again it’s too early to decide that. If low it also depends on whether you can monitor tomorrow.
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Out of curiosity, since no one may be available at 5:15 am, what do we consider low PS for Boris based on his curves? I'm at a loss now.

So far I have watched him go from AMPS 162 to +3 66, then the next cycle from 108 to +3 37 since I raised his dose to 3 units.

Now we are at 2.5 and today he didn't take a dive til after +9 155 he went to +11.5 at 67 but continually declined after +2.

Those are extreme drops in my opinion, all within a 2-3 hour period.

With that said, to prepare for am, if that is possible, what would your experience and looking at his chart constitute a low number? The vet told me last time I was there, way back when he first dropped and y'all started helping, she told me not to shoot below 150. But then again she gave no advice whatsoever on dosing but to do what I felt comfortable with, pretty much washing her hands of me since I'm using your help. That doesn't goes with the protocols, but based on these dives, I'm starting to wonder what number is shootable without a reduction. Sorry so long. The past two days have been very worry some.
 
Nathalie & Boris said:
+20 min still at 40. Gave a little caro syrup and will test again in 20. At least he's holding at 40 I guess. He seems to be fine which is the craziest part. No yowling, just chilling and wishing I would quit poking him. Although I'm sure he's enjoying his kings feast tonight.
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+20min after Caro syrup 44. Still not a big jump after honey and caro syrup. Praying!
 
I think you need to drain the depot unless there’s a huge bounce. So if around 150 shoot but otherwise skip. With TR we shoot 50 and over but with all this hc he is staying too low. There are various opinions on this but if my cat I would skip and then see where he’s at by pmps. What do you think?
 
tiffmaxee said:
I think you need to drain the depot unless there’s a huge bounce. So if around 150 shoot but otherwise skip. With TR we shoot 50 and over but with all this hc he is staying too low. There are various opinions on this but if my cat I would skip and then see where he’s at by pmps. What do you think?
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That's kind of my gut feeling. I'm a bit worried that with all the food, honey treats, and caro that he has not gone up yet. Like he's fighting the depot. Usually it only takes a little med carb to bounce him up. But I'm a bit new to all this compared to you veterans, so if we want to have a few weigh in and form a consensus, I'm down with that too. I'll trust your judgment on this if we should tag and get other opinions. Going to check him again adn will be back with the results in a few minutes.
 
Nathalie & Boris said:
That's kind of my gut feeling. I'm a bit worried that with all the food, honey treats, and caro that he has not gone up yet. Like he's fighting the depot. Usually it only takes a little med carb to bounce him up. But I'm a bit new to all this compared to you veterans, so if we want to have a few weigh in and form a consensus, I'm down with that too. I'll trust your judgment on this if we should tag and get other opinions. Going to check him again adn will be back with the results in a few minutes.
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+4 @ 36. I just gave him a can of 10% with some epigen 90 kibble 5% topping. He's way over the kcals, but whatever works. Praying praying. It's like he decided he's going to just kick diabetes at 3 units. He just needed a boost. lol not really funny but trying to find humor in the madness.
 
I agree you are chasing the depot. If his bg came up easily I’d say don’t skip. But so far it hasn’t happened. If there’s a bounce in the morning I would shoot. Otherwise I’d skip. If you want more opinions it’s fine with me.

back to back reductions rarely work unless the cat is racing down the dosing scale. Better to drain the depot and nit take back to backs.
 
What you have during the day is a bounce breaking cycle, which means later nadir and some downward pressure on his numbers in the following cycle. So when you ask "how low to shoot", we don't look at just the preshot number (other than above 50), but the overall picture.
 
Do you have any HC with gravy cans? 10% just won't be enough, you can open the can and squeeze the gravy out, that's where all the carbs are.
 
Nathalie & Boris said:
+4 @ 36. I just gave him a can of 10% with some epigen 90 kibble 5% topping. He's way over the kcals, but whatever works. Praying praying. It's like he decided he's going to just kick diabetes at 3 units. He just needed a boost. lol not really funny but trying to find humor in the madness.
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I know this may sound crazy, but today he caught a lizard and instead of letting it go, or just killing it, he literally ate the top 1/2 of it as soon as he grabbed it. Could this have anything to do with the craziness? Have to ask.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
Do you have any HC with gravy cans? 10% just won't be enough, you can open the can and squeeze the gravy out, that's where all the carbs are.
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I've already given him 14%, treats dipped in honey, and rubbed caro syrup on his gums. Nothing has made an impact thus far. The honey and caro themselves should have done the trick I would think.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
I have no experience with a diabetic eating a lizard, just a bird.:blackeye: (no odd change in numbers).
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He snagged a squirrel one day when I let him out for his play time, but I got that away from him after much fighting. Was worried about the kcals. Probably should have let him eat it since it was nothing but protein. lol. Back in the day when he could go ou
Christie & Maverick said:
How is Boris acting at the moment, other than being pleased as punch he's eaten a lizard earlier today?
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Lol, he wished it was a squirrel or a bird, but I have him under strict monitoring when we go outside now, so he'll take what he can get. He is acting very chill. Not lethargic, no yowling, just chilling and kind of napping between me poking him every 20m min. Actually more content than usual.
 
Nathalie & Boris said:
I've already given him 14%, treats dipped in honey, and rubbed caro syrup on his gums. Nothing has made an impact thus far. The honey and caro themselves should have done the trick I would think.
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I understand, you are doing great, I wanted to make sure we kept the carb values up, particularly because the honey has not been giving immediate results.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
What you have during the day is a bounce breaking cycle, which means later nadir and some downward pressure on his numbers in the following cycle. So when you ask "how low to shoot", we don't look at just the preshot number (other than above 50), but the overall picture.
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The when to shoot was based on several cycles where he just drops from PS 100+ in BG within 1-2 hours. It seems to be happening over the past week. Trying to figure out his cycles, which are a little over the place, but I've noticed anything under 150 the past few cycles he has taken major dips. Trying to see if I'm reading correctly, since y'all have more experience.
 
Please still check in 20-30 minutes since the honey and higher carbs can wear off quickly. It's not unusual for numbers to go above 50 then bobble back down. Let's hope not, but best to keep monitoring.
 
tiffmaxee said:
I agree you are chasing the depot. If his bg came up easily I’d say don’t skip. But so far it hasn’t happened. If there’s a bounce in the morning I would shoot. Otherwise I’d skip. If you want more opinions it’s fine with me.

back to back reductions rarely work unless the cat is racing down the dosing scale. Better to drain the depot and nit take back to backs.
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Thanks @tiffmaxee. I'll see what happens tonight and in the am and make a decision. I appreciate your input and sticking with me through this! It's all a learning curve.
 
ok I think we are in the clear and all the food is catching up fast. Went from +4.5 69 to +5 98. Whew! Hate to see the possible bounce that might happen, although I'm relieved.
 
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