5 days Lantus and almost no movement on the chart

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dinu55

Member Since 2017
Hello everyone.
I'm new here. My cat was recently diagnosed with diabetes. I started treatment with lantus 5 days ago. Before I used for 8 days another insulin for people - Mixtard 30. With 2u Mixtard 30, blood sugar decrease almost every time by 30-40% in 3 hours . Now with lantus, I not really see any change. Only the first day I saw a decrease, after the second injection. (when I changed insulins, I took a break for 24 hours - no shot)
If you can tell me some opinions about this situation, I will be grateful.
 
Hello and welcome here. I have never heard of Mixtard 30 before, much less it being used in a cat. Good call switching to Lantus and I am glad to see you are home testing. How did you decide on a 1.5 unit starting dose for Babulica?
 
Hello and welcome here. I have never heard of Mixtard 30 before, much less it being used in a cat. Good call switching to Lantus and I am glad to see you are home testing. How did you decide on a 1.5 unit starting dose for Babulica?
Hi, My vet recommended me 1.5U/24 hours . The decision to give two injections in 24 hours was mine, and I decided that after I read many articles about how the cat reacts to Lantus.
 
How much does Babulica weigh? What is he eating? Any other medical issues?

Glad you are dosing twice a day. Lantus is a depot insulin best shot 12 hours apart. It does take time for the depot to build. Take a look at the Sticky Notes on Tight Regulation and Start Low Go Slow and see if you'd like to follow one or the other for dosing. You may need to increase the dose, but the dosing guidelines tell you how much and how long to wait between increases. Cats need varying amounts of insulin. You will hear that ECID, each cat is different and it is so true. My Neko got up to 8.75 units, but for a while was also regulated on less than 0.5 units.
 
How much does Babulica weigh? What is he eating? Any other medical issues?

Glad you are dosing twice a day. Lantus is a depot insulin best shot 12 hours apart. It does take time for the depot to build. Take a look at the Sticky Notes on Tight Regulation and Start Low Go Slow and see if you'd like to follow one or the other for dosing. You may need to increase the dose, but the dosing guidelines tell you how much and how long to wait between increases. Cats need varying amounts of insulin. You will hear that ECID, each cat is different and it is so true. My Neko got up to 8.75 units, but for a while was also regulated on less than 0.5 units.
Babulica has now almost 5 kg. He never had any health problem. The vet recommended me to give raw meat chicken/cow/pig and some dry food from Royal Canin special for diabetes. Meanwhile I ordered online some wet food , canned for the cat from Hill's. I expect to receive them tomorrow or after tomorrow.
 
I read about Tight Regulation and Start Low Go Slow. Obviously i print all the important information that I found on the forum. I have not decided yet which path to follow. I can only say that I have enough time to take care of Babulica.
 
Good plan to stay away from the dry food. It is quite high in carbs and you don't want to mix raw with dry food. Too hard on the digestion. If you want to feed raw, TC Feline sells a premix in Europe that you can add to raw to make a complete meal. Low carb wet food is another good option. Which brand/flavours did you order? Maybe @Gill & George can give some ideas on low carb wet available online in Europe.
 
Good plan to stay away from the dry food. It is quite high in carbs and you don't want to mix raw with dry food. Too hard on the digestion. If you want to feed raw, TC Feline sells a premix in Europe that you can add to raw to make a complete meal. Low carb wet food is another good option. Which brand/flavours did you order? Maybe @Gill & George can give some ideas on low carb wet available online in Europe.
I ordered these food: http://www.zooplus.ro/shop/pisici/hrana_umeda_pisici/kattovit/diabetes/243614 , http://www.zooplus.ro/shop/pisici/hrana_umeda_pisici/hills_prescription_diet/obezitate/465796
 
Your English is pretty good. There is a lot to learn about Feline diabetes at first. Keep asking questions.
 
Your English is pretty good. There is a lot to learn about Feline diabetes at first. Keep asking questions.
Here's a question to which I have not yet found the answer. When I make insulin injection, the syringe always have a small air bubble inside. I tried to eliminate the air bubble as I have seen in several videos on youtube, by kicking slowly with the finger the syringe. I never managed to get the air bubble out in this way. Is there a way to fill the syringe with insulin without air bubble?.
 
Here's a question to which I have not yet found the answer. When I make insulin injection, the syringe always have a small air bubble inside. I tried to eliminate the air bubble as I have seen in several videos on youtube, by kicking slowly with the finger the syringe. I never managed to get the air bubble out in this way. Is there a way to fill the syringe with insulin without air bubble?.
Yes, air bubbles can be a problem. It helps me if I draw the insulin into the syringe very slowly to a little way past the dose I want. Then I flick the syringe to get any bubble to the top near the needle. I keep the syringe almost upright and very slowly push out the extra insulin until I reach the dose I want. Another thing you can also do is push firmly on the syringe plunger before you insert it into the rubber seal on the insulin vial.
 
Welcome. I never mastered the art of getting rid of air bubbles, lol. Many do though. If not I just would draw up a little more than I needed and try to get it out if large. If a small bubble I ignored it.
 
Hi there and welcome,

from your links I see you use Zooplus, I also order all my supplies from them as here in Spain the local stores don't have anything that's suitable for a diabetic cat.

The Kattovit diabetes is about 13%DM
I'm not sure about the hills, but I think that's about 16%DM
Both better than the dry Royal Canin, but not great.
You want to aim for food that has less than 10% DM carbs.

Hills in particular, though expensive is not the best quality food, has maize starch listed as the 4 main ingredient and cellulose (wood chip basically) as 5th. and also rice flour added. These ingredients have no business in a cats diet, much less a diabetic cats.

Here's a link to a list of LC (under 10% DryMatter) it's a UK food list, but most are available from zooplus.
The ones I finally decided on were,
Granata Pet Symphonie (I use the chicken, in the list linked it gives you the carb values for the different varieties)
Ferringa chicken, squash and catnip
Thrive
Terra Faelis


I also tried
animonda exotic
kattovit sensitive
Granata pet delicatessen
Catz finefood
Check the food list I linked above for the carb values and suitable flavours.

The ones I finally decided on was based on the ingredients, quality of protein and the fact that they had low phosphorus, because George has early kidney problems (stage 2 Chronic Kidney Disease)

zooplus also do a supplement for raw
http://www.zooplus.ro/esearch.htm#q=felini
I haven't researched it since I don't feed a raw diet, @suki & crystal (GA) have you heard of it/researched it?

You don't need to throw out the food you ordered, once bubulica starts to respond to Lantus, you will need to use higher carb food to bring his blood glucose up, when he experiences a drop into lower numbers, we do this to keep them safe.

It might be a good idea to get some High Carb (HC) food (even higher than the kattovit or Hills) for occasions when blood glucose is dropping too fast or too low.
I used Purina Gourmet Gold. chicken and salmon, meat chunks in sauce that was about 30% DM carb, the pate seclections of Gourmet gold are not high in carbs, and the different flavours vary in carb content as well.

When starting out I found this website written by a vet, Dr Lisa Pierson, very useful, it's all about feline nutrition, and will perhaps help you understand what you are looking for in a feline diet. Also great info on a raw diet.
http://catinfo.org/

Try not to worry about not seeing much movement initially in the numbers, with George it took about 8-10 weeks before we started seeing significant movement, have a look at his spread sheet linked in my signature, we got up to 3.5u BID (twice a day), then he started healing and he eventually went into remission, which he is still enjoying.

One little tip, I would suggest is that you try and start by getting one test in each cycle, I see you've been doing great at getting that test before you head to bed, but if you can manage to get one in the am cycle it will give you a better idea if he is staying high all the time, or if he is indeed sometimes dipping lower in the day.

We are here to help, so keep asking questions, if you need any more help with the food, or questions about it, feel free to tag me by writing @Gill & George
 
Hi there and welcome,

from your links I see you use Zooplus, I also order all my supplies from them as here in Spain the local stores don't have anything that's suitable for a diabetic cat.

The Kattovit diabetes is about 13%DM
I'm not sure about the hills, but I think that's about 16%DM
Both better than the dry Royal Canin, but not great.
You want to aim for food that has less than 10% DM carbs.

Hills in particular, though expensive is not the best quality food, has maize starch listed as the 4 main ingredient and cellulose (wood chip basically) as 5th. and also rice flour added. These ingredients have no business in a cats diet, much less a diabetic cats.

Here's a link to a list of LC (under 10% DryMatter) it's a UK food list, but most are available from zooplus.
The ones I finally decided on were,
Granata Pet Symphonie (I use the chicken, in the list linked it gives you the carb values for the different varieties)
Ferringa chicken, squash and catnip
Thrive
Terra Faelis


I also tried
animonda exotic
kattovit sensitive
Granata pet delicatessen
Catz finefood
Check the food list I linked above for the carb values and suitable flavours.

The ones I finally decided on was based on the ingredients, quality of protein and the fact that they had low phosphorus, because George has early kidney problems (stage 2 Chronic Kidney Disease)

zooplus also do a supplement for raw
http://www.zooplus.ro/esearch.htm#q=felini
I haven't researched it since I don't feed a raw diet, @suki & crystal (GA) have you heard of it/researched it?

You don't need to throw out the food you ordered, once bubulica starts to respond to Lantus, you will need to use higher carb food to bring his blood glucose up, when he experiences a drop into lower numbers, we do this to keep them safe.

It might be a good idea to get some High Carb (HC) food (even higher than the kattovit or Hills) for occasions when blood glucose is dropping too fast or too low.
I used Purina Gourmet Gold. chicken and salmon, meat chunks in sauce that was about 30% DM carb, the pate seclections of Gourmet gold are not high in carbs, and the different flavours vary in carb content as well.

When starting out I found this website written by a vet, Dr Lisa Pierson, very useful, it's all about feline nutrition, and will perhaps help you understand what you are looking for in a feline diet. Also great info on a raw diet.
http://catinfo.org/

Try not to worry about not seeing much movement initially in the numbers, with George it took about 8-10 weeks before we started seeing significant movement, have a look at his spread sheet linked in my signature, we got up to 3.5u BID (twice a day), then he started healing and he eventually went into remission, which he is still enjoying.

One little tip, I would suggest is that you try and start by getting one test in each cycle, I see you've been doing great at getting that test before you head to bed, but if you can manage to get one in the am cycle it will give you a better idea if he is staying high all the time, or if he is indeed sometimes dipping lower in the day.

We are here to help, so keep asking questions, if you need any more help with the food, or questions about it, feel free to tag me by writing @Gill & George

:bighug: Hi. Many thanks for the information. Now I read your post and I feel better seeing that there are people who want to help and they are really involves. I'll reread a little later your post to decide what to buy. Unfortunately here in my town I find just some diabetic dry food and some diabetic wet food bags from Royal Canin . Nothing else . The vet tells me he can order for me, but I do not see the difference. He probably sell them to me more expensive.
 
Welcome. I never mastered the art of getting rid of air bubbles, lol. Many do though. If not I just would draw up a little more than I needed and try to get it out if large. If a small bubble I ignored it.
Hi and thanks.
:) Hahaaa. 20 minutes ago I give the shot, and I managed to pull out the bubble. It's for the first time. I used the same method as always, but now I succeeded. :cool:
 
Welcome to the group!!

Mixtard 30 is the same as Humulin. It's a short acting insulin -- which is why you were seeing more immediate results. Lantus is a depot-type of insulin and is much gentler than Mixtard but less potent. It also takes roughly a week for the Lantus depot to form and for you to start seeing results. Lantus is a much longer acting type of insulin which means you generally don't see the same dramatic differences as you often see with the shorter acting types of insulin. The one thing that Lantus will teach you is patience!
 
Welcome to the group!!

Mixtard 30 is the same as Humulin. It's a short acting insulin -- which is why you were seeing more immediate results. Lantus is a depot-type of insulin and is much gentler than Mixtard but less potent. It also takes roughly a week for the Lantus depot to form and for you to start seeing results. Lantus is a much longer acting type of insulin which means you generally don't see the same dramatic differences as you often see with the shorter acting types of insulin. The one thing that Lantus will teach you is patience!

Hello . I'm not happy to be here. It was better none of us to be here. But we got here, so with patience and small steps I hope to see my Babulica healthy again. :)
 
Hi there,
below is the link to a German supplier that will deliver to Romania. You want the U100 Micro-Fine Demi, 0.3ml syringes, they have the 1/2 unit markings, when we shoot a 0.25 dose then we try and place the plunger halfway making the best and most consistent 'guess' we can. It's not ideal, but its easier than using the 1u syringes. Another option is to use calipers.
31rQlRhMjDL.jpg

https://www.amazon.de/mikrofeinen-Insulin-Spritzen-U100-Demi/dp/B00K86ZO20/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1485627539&sr=8-2&keywords=bd+u100+demi
 
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