5/8 PHOEBES amps 285 +2.5 271 I messed up just keeps getting better (sarcasm)

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I got probiotics and digestive enzymes, and like a dummy stopped the pumpkin. I am admitting this so others will hopefully learn. I stopped it friday night. She did not poop sat night or sunday. And her numbers went up, you can see on my ss. Started pumpkin again yesterday afternoon and last night. This am, she had some and had a small hard bm. :( this poor kitty. I am so sorry
 
Don't be hard on yourself. You're doing your best for her. You have to figure out what works and what doesn't. Maybe the probiotics and digestive enzymes take longer to work. :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Everything is just going to **** for a lack of a better word. Just wrestled with phoebes to get fluids in. Only to have it soak her, the carpet and me. 75 ml down the tubes. And now have to stick her again. Not gonna happen right now tho. I would lose a hand. She's no indignant about the semi bath failure, via LRs.
 
Nan & Amber said:
Oh, poor Phoebe! And poor you!

These things do seem to happen in clusters, don't they? :bighug:

Definitely give her a break for a little while. I'm glad to hear that she's still feeling feisty Phoebe and standing up for herself against the indignity of an impromptu bath!
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I guess I would have to say glad she is spunky. But it makes a momma bean feel like a failure.
 
Carol & Murphy said:
Angela - don't be so hard on yourself and it sounds like a time out time
When Murphy gets 'in a mood' I just let him be for a few minutes or a few hours and try again
Everyone has days like the one you are having - it will get better
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Thank you Carol, momma bean needs a nap and a drink.
 
@Wendy&Neko @Nan & Amber serious discussion. We really believe she has acro?right? 12 units..big feet..turning in circles, confusion, doesn't groom. I can't afford the tests for the acro test or ultrasound. We are chosen between ramen noodles or her medicine. If we have to eat ramen the rest of her life I will. But if we are just keeping her here for us I want /need another opinion. Will getting her bg down help any of this? Reverse slow down any of her symptoms? My head says let her go. But my heart says be patient.
 
I wish I could help on the acro discussion, but I don't have any experience with it myself-- all I know is what I've read secondhand. I also haven't seen enough high-dose kitties here to be able to distinguish between, say, an acro kitty and one with a stubborn case of glucose toxicity. Obviously, the only way to really know would be the tests, but I do wonder about the fact that she really does seem to stay in just a narrow band of numbers all the time-- maybe that makes an acro diagnosis slightly less likely? Stressing, again, that I'm not speaking from any experience here, just wondering if that's giving a hint one way or another.

I do know that, if we can get her numbers down to a normal range, she will feel better. High BG not only makes them hungry all the time, it makes them feel yucky overall (not to mention more prone to other ailments like UTIs and pancreatitis flareups). I know we keep saying, we are waiting to find the "breakthrough dose", and so far there's little sign of it even on the horizon. It's very frustrating to watch from the outside, here on the other end of a computer screen, I can only imagine how it is for you. You are taking such fantastic care of Phoebe, it just seems unfair that there hasn't (yet) been a big payoff. But she has had some good days in all of this, when she was almost her old self. I don't think it's hopeless from that perspective, but I don't have any solutions to offer, either-- just as much support as I can send through the computer screen! :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:

And I totally agree, it's definitely wine-thirty now after the day you've had! Be good to yourself, snuggle with Phoebe if she'll let you after her LR bath, and take a break. You deserve it!
 
Phoebes said:
about the semi bath failure, via LRs.
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Maybe you can start calling her SaltyCat:D:D:D
Glad she is still feeling spunky.
Sorry you are having a rough couple of days:banghead:. We've all been there, back to back fur shots, forgetting things, it happens. There is a lot to learn, digest and remember at the right time when it comes to FD. You are doing a fantastic job I'd say.:bighug:

As far as the acro....
Wendy would know better, but it is not a definitive "she has acro" just because of the larger dose. I would say it is more likely that she has Acro or IAA(Insulin Antibodies) given her dose, but not definitive. IAA is where the cats immune system attacks the insulin thinking it is a foreign invader, this usually resolves on its own after around a year.

When Jack was first Dx'd with Acro, the only real symptom was stridor(snoring). As it has progressed, he is getting more pot-bellied. His feet still look pretty normal to me and his face while different, could just be from him getting older and not the acro. His hunger is something impressive as well, I'm scared to get near his bowl during food time for fear of losing a finger:D. Even when he is in good numbers, the hunger is better but still there. He beats on the auto-feeder like a Jamaican bongo player at night.

There isn't much to slow down the acro. There are basically 4 options. The most common is the SRT treatment where they use a focused beam of radiation to zap the tumor on the pituitary gland. They can also surgically remove the pituitary gland. The other 2 options are medications. Pasireotide is out of this world expensive. Cabergoline is a drug used in cats already to terminate pregnancy and the RVC is doing a study to see if it helps with Acro. So far the results have not been great, but the sample size is supposedly only 6 cats so hard to draw conclusions.

Enjoy the drink, take a break and know that you doing all you can for your little girl, even if she gets a little feisty sometimes. It's all we can do!
 
saltycat said:
His hunger is something impressive as well, I'm scared to get near his bowl during food time for fear of losing a finger:D. Even when he is in good numbers, the hunger is better but still there. He beats on the auto-feeder like a Jamaican bongo player at
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Ty that made me laugh. That's exactly what she does. Not the feeder she won't use it. So the frozen catfoodsickle is chased around the livingroom. Thought she was dragging her butt on the carpet because of the food trail. We can't afford any of the treatments. So going blind here. Was just reading acro articles. The big feet, her thickening knee, the "blinding", the teeth will look at when I can hold that trap open long enough. I like saltycat. Lol but that's taken :) maybe salty jr? Ty for the encouragement. Maybe looking for answers without the questions. :bighug::bighug:
 
Nan & Amber said:
I don't have any solutions to offer, either-- just as much support as I can send through the computer screen!
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Thank you for that. Yeah not cuddling at the moment she's still salty. It just seems so crazy. If she is acro, we still would be raising the dose? Even the solutions are not conclusive for results. So we treat the systems until another system shuts down. I can't imagine heart and kidney issues on top of this. She already seems miserabe most days. She does have happy moments. But mostly seems lost or confused/depressed. And always wanting that food. The couple of days she went into the lower 200s she didn't come get me at 2 hours, it was at least 3 hours before she begged. So that was promising. Then she got constipated.
 
Phoebes said:
I like saltycat. Lol but that's taken
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Salty Sister or Salty Sass:cat: although the second one sounds like a spice girl to me for some reason:smuggrin:

The treatments are all pretty pricey, breaks my heart too with Jack. We do the best we can for them and that helps me at the end of the day know I did all I could. You didn't abandon her in her time of need, you buckled down and did your homework and made the sacrifices you needed to make. That is commendable.

The MSU tests would let you know if she had acro or IAA.. or both. The gameplan is pretty much the same for both: enough insulin to keep them in good numbers. With acro, the dose tends to swing slowly as the tumor puts out more or less growth hormone. The IAA can make the dose change much faster, and when it does break, they can race down the dosing ladder quickly. This only comes into play once you've found a good dose. It took a few months of constant increases before Jack found that first good dose... which has changed quite a few times since then.

Phoebes said:
Maybe looking for answers without the questions.
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Sometimes just rambling gets you some good leads. It can be hard to know what questions to even ask sometimes.

Phoebes said:
If she is acro, we still would be raising the dose?
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Yes, getting her in good numbers should help her feel better AND reduces pressure on other organs like the kidneys that are working hard enough as is with the FD.

She just recently started Adequan right? Hopefully that will help her out, joint pain is common in acro kitties and Jack perked up noticeably after about a month on cosequin joint supplement.

:bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
Angela, I don't have any answers for you, I know next to nothing about acro or IAA, but just wanted to send you some (((hugs))) and support. You're not a failure, you are a wonderful Mamabean to Phoebes. And sometimes the heart is smarter than the brain. ;) :bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
 
:bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug::bighug:
Wes is right, at this dose with no movement, Phoebe has a high dose condition or two. The symptoms you descibe would lead me to think acromegaly, that and the fact that one in four diabetic cats has it. She may or may not have a side helping of IAA. Knowing whether IAA is present helps us determine how aggressive to be in dosing and how conservative when the reductions happen.

The majority of people with acrocats do not get treatment. Not only are they pricey, for most you have to travel distance. That's not an option all can do. Most target getting kitty into good blood sugar numbers and treating symptoms where they can. The IM vet at Colorado Sate University that saw Neko, told me that getting her to spend as much time below renal threshold was the best thing I could do for her. So yes, keep increasing. In addition to Jack, Adrian's Chino, and Sharon's Colin are active members currently following that approach.

In spite of treatment, Neko also saw signs of acromegaly, mostly soft tissue growth, not so much the physical obvious changes. Treatment slowed things down and she lived with acromegaly at least 5.5 years. Only at the end were there obvious signs. She had severe arthritis, and kidney and heart issues. The thickened bowels could also have been caused by it, or maybe it was lymphoma - who knows, her heart wouldn't let us test for sure. But most important, she was seeing good quality of life until close to the end. She even did a road trip with us a month before she earned her wings.

You have to regularly evaluate how Phoebe is doing, is she still doing some things she loved. And whether there are things you can do to help her symptoms. A couple of the bigger things I did was acupuncture for her arthritis, though ECID on what works best, and buprenorphine BID. She really perked up and got more interactive and playful when I started that. Some cats respond to gabapentin. Some folks start regular B12 if that is low. Getting her blood sugar under better control may also help. Let me think about some options there and discuss with a few other people and get back to you.
 
Phoebes said:
If she is acro, we still would be raising the dose?
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I've been chatting with Julie about dosing, and we think that you should try fast tracking with Phoebe. That would mean increasing every 4 cycles by 1 unit, until you see blue. Note to any lurkers, this is a suggestion for Phoebe only.
 
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