5/8 Ducia AMPS 91, +1 121, +3 191, +11 267; PMPS 202, + 2 192, +4 242, +11 341

[Tanya and Ducia]

Hello everybody, and Happy Monday!

I wasn't posting for a few days so the the quick summary is: May 2nd, late in the Am cycle Ducia was lowering even with food so I reduced the dose to 0.5u - rather it was Fat half unit.With exception for one high green all we saw in 5 days were Yellows and high Blues. So the dose went up to the skinny 0.75u.

We were having some chilly days lately - with a rain storm over the weekend night and Ducia was sleeping all of that time, made us think she was unwell and reminded of her days when she was having DKA. We decided to go up to full 0.75u this AM, and guess what - today AMPS was 91 so you will be seen me poking and posting.

I have a question for those whose kitties are late nadir cats or who do dip late in the cycle: How do you feed them?Just like any other cat?

How do you feed a cat who used to drop at onset and then dips at about +8? Ducia is on Lantus btw.What is the best food spread throughout the cycle if fed in small portions?

I feed the drop forward in the AM so most of her food is eaten earlier than +5. Daily ratio to maintain her weight is 12 - 13 tsp LC. I must give 3 tsp around +8.5 - +9 - lifelong habit of hers.

Do you have any suggestions? Or should I just keep as it is?

Wishing all safe , happy and healthy day!

 

[Tricia Cinco(GA) & Harvey]

Hi Tanya.

I see Ducia is keeping you on your toes!

I have no input for you on feeding, as my cats did not nadir late. I suggest you add a question to your subject line to attract those that can help - "Feeding a late nadir cat?" or something like that.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Hi Tanya.

I see Ducia is keeping you on your toes!

I have no input for you on feeding, as my cats did not nadir late. I suggest you add a question to your subject line to attract those that can help - "Feeding a late nadir cat?" or something like that.

Thank you Tricia! Just a few days away and already forgotten the basics...

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

@Bobbie And Bubba has experience with that. Bubba had nadirs at shot times, I believe.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Bubba had nadirs at shot times, I believe.

Wow! I cannot even imagine what it's like.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

I made huge mistake this morning - fed not only higher carbs at AMPS but also larger amount too - she asked for extra and remembering the drops in the past early in the AM I gave her that extra teaspoon.
What a mistake that was...
three hours later the BG is 191. Basically like Yellow. Sorry , Ducia.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Hey Tanya! Yes, Bubba nadired late, really late. His pre shot numbers were his nadirs so it was really easy to shoot lower numbers because I was shooting a number that was only going to come up. Make sense? So it does give some wiggle room.

Just for extra information, when Bubba lost remission the 2nd time, when he went back on insulin, his nadir changed to mid cycle. So, my point is that these cats can change their nadirs on us at any given time.

I just saw your post above, it's all a learning curve so not to worry. If she continues with the later nadir, the lower pre shots could be the start of her rising. So, I would just give LC food unless the +2 tells you different.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

His pre shot numbers were his nadirs so it was really easy to shoot lower numbers because I was shooting a number that was only going to come up. Make sense?

It does. It also alleviates some low pre-shot anxiety which is very nice .

If she continues with the later nadir, the lower pre shots could be the start of her rising

Ducia bounces a lot and that, I thought, prevents me from pointing out her nadir.
It seems that on more than several occasions in the AM cycles she lowered at the +8. Do you agree?
Can I take it as her nadir? Even i temporary.
The PM cycles = bouncing; or maybe it's another cat I am testing in the PMs , no useful data there.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

I just wanted to add, those +11 test are great ones to get as you can see that Ducia was still going lower this AMBS from last night's cycle which was her lowest. And from there she went upwards.

It seems that on more than several occasions in the AM cycles she lowered at the +8. Do you agree?

Yes, I do think she is nadiring later in the AM around +8 and even sometimes in the PM she is nadiring at +8 .

Since she is a bouncing kitty, after you see a green and then she zooms upwards, give the bounce at least 6 cycles before increasing. And that said, when she hasn't given you a green in 6 cycles, increase.

AMBG not AMBS ( LOL )

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

I just took the +4 test - 4 hours after the meal and it is 211.

It cannot possible be influenced by the large brekkie this morning, even 6% carbs.

Is it the beginning of a bounce? At the onset?

I hate bouncing but I rather have that then any other health issues. Ducia acts/behaves normally, all in order except that she slept for most of the weekend. I attributed that sleepiness to bad weather and not to illness...

I noticed that she was grooming her private parts more frequently then I normally observe. I hope everything all right in that department...

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

I think it's a bounce after the green start. No worries, she'll come back down.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

I just took the +4 test - 4 hours after the meal and it is 211.

It cannot possible be influenced by the large brekkie this morning, even 6% carbs.

Is it the beginning of a bounce? At the onset?

I hate bouncing but I rather have that then any other health issues. Ducia acts/behaves normally, all in order except that she slept for most of the weekend. I attributed that sleepiness to bad weather and not to illness...

I noticed that she was grooming her private parts more frequently then I normally observe. I hope everything all right in that department...

If the excessive grooming at the back end continues , take a peek and see if everything looks okay at the rectum. Some cats get anal gland abscesses.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

If the excessive grooming at the back end continues , take a peek and see if everything looks okay at the rectum. Some cats get anal gland abscesses.

OK.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Good morning,

History: +11 267, PMPS 202, +2 192, +4 242.

I thought everything was pointing out to an active cycle and here were are at +4 BG 242.

Is it a bounce? From what then if the previous cycle was flat Yellows?

I don't understand ...

but going to get some sleep.

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

It's looking like she is still wobbling around some. She'll come back down ago. Take advantage of it and gets some sleep.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Hi,
the PMPS +11 is just in - BG 341

I know I should hold the dose and to see how that's working for a bit but that Pink - very, very alarming.

More often than not she bounces to the Pinks after hitting low green or Lime greens - it is not the case now. There was single, high dark green and her reaction is seems to be overreaction.

Going to Dr. Google to find something I can obsess and worry about- what else can Ducia have to have those numbers?...

"It is a most extraordinary thing, but I never read a patent medicine advertisement without being impelled to the conclusion that I am suffering from the particular disease therein dealt with in its most virulent form." Jerome K. Jerome

 

[Bobbie And Bubba]

Going to Dr. Google to find something I can obsess and worry about

I was able to stop doing that once Bubba got FD

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

Unless you get more pinks tonight, I'm going to go ahead and call that 341 a product of meter variance . Really, though, the 20% variance can really sneak up on you at those high numbers.

Not sure what's going on with the numbers overall-- it does seem like she's suddenly decided she needs a bit more insulin, but the (current) 0.75U dose has only had a few cycles to settle in, so I'm not sure of that. Just a week or two ago, 0.75 was reliably bringing her into great numbers. How is she feeling/behaving otherwise? No indications of anything bothering her? I'm afraid I lost track (I've been reading your condos, but my memory is terrible!) whatever happened with that gum irritation you were worried about? Were you able to get that looked at/treated or does it still look inflamed? Something like that can push numbers up a bit, for sure.

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Not sure what's going on with the numbers overall-- it does seem like she's suddenly decided she needs a bit more insulin, but the (current) 0.75U dose has only had a few cycles to settle in, so I'm not sure of that.

She had slight weight gain since - could that explain the need for a higher dose? She is at her optimal weight, (knock-knock on wood) & holds it well on the current food ratio but she is heavier than she was when the 0.75 sent her Lime low.

How is she feeling/behaving otherwise? No indications of anything bothering her?

hatever happened with that gum irritation you were worried about?

The gum redish-ness is still there, but not worsened since. She recently made me to give her 2-5 dry kibbles of the Tiki Carnivore 0% dry after each injection in the AMs - as a reward for putting up with the insulin injection that I do alone, without the DH present/holding her. She chews it with enthusiasm, to say the least. If her gums were truly irritable she would not be able to stand the pain, would she? There is no abnormal smell from her mount, given that she is about 50 in human's equivalent and is not really a tooth - brusher?

I also observed somewhat more frequent (not excessive, no) private part's grooming - neither is in the excess category nor the way too alarming. But because there were Pinks in the SS I could not help thinking "what if it is UTI" ?!? She consumed more water than the average cat, and, accordingly, pees more frequent - average 3 times in 24h, rarely - 4, if it too hot outside. Is is too much for a cat? The amounts of her pee are "normal" per Dr. Lisa blog assessment of the clumping patties left in the litter box.

Overall behavior is healthy - except when the weather isn't perfect - cloudy as it was for the past 2-3 day, she is too sleepy. It is not usual for us to have clouds, it's always sunny here .Although, when the sun comes up to our balcony in the afternoons - there she goes sunbathing, bird watching, fights me if I come to close to her elevated spot in the sun, the upper land landing of her Condo - becomes a kitty in her strength again, feisty.

The vet visit isn't financially feasible at present, again, but , frankly, the "our" vet is an idiot, he sells Hills dry and believes that the half unit marked syringes are the devil's devices. Unless it is totally necessary to rule out the reasons for Ducia having the higher BGs, I would really like to avoid seeing him again. I know today what will he say then, in the future. Blah-Blah-Blah, useless.

Would that be possible for you to assess the SS from time to time on that 0.75U dose and to let me know what would you have suspected was going on besides the bouncing she is so fond of?

As much as I would hate to increase the dose I will do it but only if necessary , truly necessary, not for the sake of being "cautions" with the post-DKA kitty or in sake of the protocol sacredness. Many on the Board are subscribed to "increase, increase, increase" even if it means feeding an ice cream to the obliged carnivore and make him/her overweight in process, just increase.

The 0.75U sent her to the Lime Greens before, - fact. I am not convinced that the Insulin toxicity exists.

I know you will at least try to truly understand my reasoning before giving an answer.

What is the "Golden Mean" path here?

It might be her bouncing. Then wait it over.

It might be an infection present, I cannot rule it out; I will go to the vet only if there is STRONG suspicion of an infection.

P.S.Btw., under the home microscope, not professional, MD grade of course, but much higher/better that what you would find in a well funded High School Lab, Ducia's blood sample has normal amount WBC, not that any medical / dosing decisions will be based upon it. So does her urine, normal.

Sorry to post in barrage of words.

 

[Mandy & Rex (GA)]

Are the dry treats new, meaning did you add that since the lime greens?

 

[Tanya and Ducia]

Are the dry treats new, meaning did you add that since the lime greens?

They very new and were added in the last couple of days - 2 or 4 pieces of dry food kibbles ( 2 or 4 pieces of dry food) in the 24 hours - I doubt that they can have any effect on the dramatic Pink-ishness in the SS, however I cannot rule it out. Will/ Want to drop at any time.
Should I cancel it for her and stop rewarding her with them? No problemo.
The whole Tiki Carnivore dry bag ($20 value) was a promo gift in my local store that just started to sell this brand - the only reason I got it, would never pay a dime for another dry food. Ducia doesn't eat dry, nor will she unless it is End of the Day scenario like 2012 movie.

 

[Nan & Amber (GA)]

Hmmm.... I don't know anything about that dry food, but maybe it's not as 0% as they think it is???

It really doesn't sound like Ducia has any major health issues right now-- I think you can relax a little bit on that. Eventually those gums will have to be examined, but as long as it isn't getting worse...

I'll definitely keep looking at Ducia's spreadsheet! I try to look in as often as I can (though my commenting tends to be spotty these days-- busy time for me). As I said before, she's only just been on this (current) 0.75U dose for a little while, so I won't push for an increase right now. Let's see what she does with this, and if she "asks" for more insulin, well, then you can do the increase. As for why she might need more insulin-- honestly, sometimes there isn't a real reason. Insulin needs change, sometimes. Some cats go up and down the dosing ladder several times before finally becoming regulated or going into remission. Once you've checked into all the obvious causes (which you have!), and there's nothing obvious, don't drive yourself crazy searching for a cause, just go with it! She's leading in this FD dance, you just have to go where she leads....

 

[Kris & Teasel]

Tanya, you're doing a great job with her!