5/8/20 please give an opinion on switching from Levemir to Prozinc

tonimarmalade

Member Since 2015
5/8/20 Need an opinion on Prozinc as a possible insulin for Marmy
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  1. tonimarmalade
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2015
    Marmy’s urine test came back with low key tones and no evidence of any kidney or other problems whatsoever. Along with recent battery of other tests and bloodwork, her vet suggested that maybe the Levimer is carrying over for too many hours so that when I give her a shot every 12 hours she may still have insulin left over from earlier shot and thus c the low numbers. I am adjusting , esp. when I see that her +2 is already lower than her Preshots number. what I feed her so that she has a medium carb mixed in with her primal nuggets which are low carb to try to keep her from diving down into the 20s and 30s (as Marjesuggested). She is dropping down right now and I am trying this. Strategy. I will post on SS a bit later. My vet also suggested we watch another week or two with the food adjustment and perhaps try the insulin change and then perhaps an ultrasound,etc. I read a bit about Prozinc on line but found the information a bit murky. Thank you so much for your thoughts.

    Marmy's Numbers
 
No opinions, but you might want to check out the Prozinc ISG forum, for more information on Prozinc, such as the dosing protocols.
 
I hope you find out more about Prozinc before making the decision to switch. I've not used Prozinc but my understanding is that it's not as slow acting or gentle as Levemir. Have you tried a Libre device that is attached to kitty to monitor constantly? I saw those drops and wonder if having more food available would help steer her away from those events...(I didn't read your notes about feeding though)...

I hope you find the answers and can make an informed decision! Best of luck to you :)
 
I don't really see a problem on Marmy's SS. You had one cycle where Marmy's numbers were low and she earned a reduction. Beyond that, she was largely in the 200s until yesterday's (5/8) AM cycle. You want those blue numbers. The more time your kitty is in normal range numbers, the less effect diabetes has on all of the other organs, especially her kidneys.

The value of long-acting, depot types of insulin is that they are long-acting and there IS overlap between the cycles. If you were to compare Lantus or Lev to a shorter acting insulin like Humulin N, there would be an initial period when numbers dropped fast and hard and then zoomed back up with several hours prior to shot time when there was no duration since the effective period of the insulin is about 8 hrs.

Prozinc is longer acting than N. It does not give you the overlap nor is it a depot insulin. Prozinc is one of the insulins recommended by the American Animal Hospital Assn so it is a good option. The biggest question I have is what are your goals? I'm assuming you're looking to keep Marmy tightly regulated since she's a long term diabetic. If that's the case, you want numbers in the normal range (50 -120). There will likely be times with any insulin than numbers may drop into low ranges and times where numbers are high. What are you hoping to see?
 
In deference to Bron, I think the folks using Prozinc tend to post on Health vs in the Prozinc forum. I do think it's hard, that being the case, to sort out who the experienced Prozinc users are.
 
I’ve been helping on the PZ ISG and there are less people to help there. Deb has been doing most of it.

Do I think it’s a good fit for Marmy? As was said earlier, it depends on your goals but it also depends on what you’ve got going on yourself.

Because PZ is not a depot insulin like Levemir, there’s more flexibility to dosing. Yes.....consistency is best in dosing and shooting but if you had to shoot a reduced dose one cycle, you’ve no depot to worry about (although there is a little bit of action from one cycle to the next with PZ but it’s not depot action). It is not as gentle an insulin as Levemir and there as a lot of PZ users over the years who have moved to Lantus or Levemir.

To be really honest with you, I don’t think the insulin is the issue with Marmy. I do not mean this to be critical but just honest and that is that you aren’t using the insulin correctly. There are way too many really low numbers on her SS which concerns me. I’m glad you are testing earlier now. But, for example on 5/3, by +2, she was already headed down so that’s your signal to feed to control the drop and definitely test before two more hours have passed.

While some of Marmy’s lows might be attributable to carryover and overlap, I’m seeing clear clues that she’s clearing a bounce and dropping fast especially when she then onsets. That is definitely the case on 4/23 and 5/3. Are you studying her SS to see when she starts to clear a bounce so you are ready for it and can manage the curve with food? For cats that clear bounces like Marmy, I’ve found the best way to deal with them is to test early and often and feed higher LC food or even MC, if needed, to slow the numbers down so they never get to those low green numbers. Usually, if you do this for a few cycles and flatten them out, they stop the dive/bounce cycle but as long as she dives like that, she’s going to bounce, and then she’s going to dive.

Gracie would occasionally do this with me and when I saw a bounce clearing, I’d even test at +1 and start feeding to keep the numbers from plummeting because she could also dive.

As an aside, on her SS, it’s impossible to tell when you list multiple numbers in a cell, such as 4/23 +4 a.m. cycle, if you spread those tests out or if you retested three times back-to-back. If you got a 46 at +4, fed and then retested 15 minutes later, for example, and then fed and retested another 15 mins later, it should read 46; 36 @ +4.25; 39 @ +4.5. When they are all just listed, we have no idea how the food or carbs are affecting her numbers or if you just kept retesting one after another to see if the meter is readIgM correctly.

I hope this is helpful as a learning tool. Again, it’s not my intent to criticize what you have been doing but let you know how you can address it. If you don’t understand her cycles and her onset, nadir, duration and are able to pick up when she’s going to clear a bounce, then managing her better is going to be a challenge.
 
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Thank you all so much. I think I have forgotten a great deal and will have to find time to review or even learn. No excuses but most days I don’t have a minute. I am going to print out your responses and research what I don’t understand. Thank you again and a blessed Mother’s Day to one an all. You are all definitely godmothers, foster mothers or pet mothers in one way or another. So Marmy wishes you a happy Mother’s Day also and we both thank you again.
 
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