5/6Willy PMPS 310, +3~305, +6~177!!!!

[Stephanie&Willy]

Willy's condo yesterday

I went to be early last night (so exhausted after all the stuff that's been going on) but apparently some food got left out. My DH was up all night working on a program until he went to class early this morning at "+9" when he came back at "+11" Willy was into quite a large amount of people food. Ughhh! I should have stayed up and cleaned!!! :lol: :lol: :sad:

I tested him at AMPS and he was in the 400s. I gave him half a can of Fancy Feast and his shot because he was really quite upset that the others were getting fed and he wasn't.

I got his profile (mostly) done. Yay!

Have a great afternoon/evening everyone!

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 5/6Willy AMPS 421 finished profile, got into the trash

Love the Profile, especially about how Willy joined the family.

So, what did he eat? No more cupcakes or pizza for Willy!!

 

[Stephanie&Willy]

Re: 5/6Willy AMPS 421 finished profile, got into the trash

Thanks Sienne! When my DH gets out of school (next week yay!) I am going to have him help me format it a little better but I finally had some time to get it up.

My DH went on a late night McDonald's run for snacks for his all-night programming marathon and Willy ate half of some sort of beef type snack wrap, including the lettuce and such. Ugh! My DH has the most amazing metabolism, he can demolish anything and won't gain any weight. He's 5'9" and weighs 130lbs. If I ate some of that stuff I quite literally gain 5lbs! :lol: Looking at how it affected Willy's BG I'm glad I don't eat like that anymore :lol: :lol: :lol:

It's honestly not the worst thing Willy has eaten. Since his DX he has gotten and eaten an entire loaf of bread (off the counter) and ALL of the frosting on half of a 9x13 cake. The cake was covered with a snap plastic lid and he knocked it off the counter (my smaller butcher block was sitting on top of it and was still on the counter) which somehow shattered the lid. He only ate the frosting. He knocked an empty-but-dirty crock pot off the counter, breaking only the ceramic insert. I didn't mind that too much because I got my DH to replace it with a pressure cooker (which I reaaaally wanted :lol: ).

Now he will try to get into the trash, fridge, freezer, pantry, etc. He knows how to open *everything* so we have to be really diligent about blocking things. We have tried loud noises, and spraying him with water (not in the face) to try to get him to stay out of things but he honestly doesn't care when it comes to food. His temperament and determination are too sound to be phased by anything.

I added the picture of him getting into the trash to his profile. He's such a large cat that it was truly amazing to watch him do it, though he got scolded right after. He's worse than my dog! We briefly discussed getting scat mats but we are not fans of shocking our pets, the idea was more about his own good. Ultimately, we decided against it based on the principal that being shocked might excite/stress him, causing jumps in his BG and decided to take the path of diligence to be safe.

 

[Amy&TrixieCat]

Re: 5/6Willy AMPS 421, +2~319 got into the trash

Hi Stephanie & Willy - I can't remember if I've visited you before or not, but I wanted to say "welcome!" I love the pictures in Willy's profile...you've got a gorgeous furry family there!

Amy & Trixie

 

[Beth & Atlas]

Re: 5/6Willy AMPS 421, +2~319 got into the trash

Oh my about the garbage....

you may want to consider a 'dog proof' garbage can! I have a client that took a steel can and added a latch to the can and then slips a carabiner through the bottom of the latch, essentially locking it shut.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 5/6Willy AMPS 421, +2~319 got into the trash

Baby proofing the cabinets may work with the little thief!!

 

[Stephanie&Willy]

Re: 5/6Willy AMPS 421, +2~319 got into the trash

Hi Amy&Trixie! Thank you so much! They are a real handful sometimes but we love them.

Blue (I'm sorry I don't know your name )
That trash can is absolutely amazing! The one we have isn't super easy to open and we usually stack some boxes on top but he is a very willful furbutt. 99% of the time with the boxes on top (even if they are completely empty) he won't try anything, its that 1% that can be worrisome.

We are saving up for a steel one at the moment but were still concerned that he would be able to get it open so we've been hesitant to purchase. I LOVE the idea of the latch/caribiner!!! That is brilliant. After seeing that, I may try to Gorilla Glue something onto ours so we can latch it! We will still shop around for a steel one but anything we can do for the time being would be awesome. Thanks for sharing that with me!

 

[Stephanie&Willy]

Re: 5/6Willy AMPS 421, +2~319 got into the trash

Haha Sienne, seriously!! I will have to double check with our apartment manager to see if we can, but last time (it was different management and we wanted to do it for our dog that was a puppy at the time) they told us it would "probably" cost us some of our deposit to "repair" it when we moved out. The new management is even less reasonable but that's stories for a more appropriate place.


I increased Willy's dose this AM from 4.75 to 5.0. The 5.0 wasn't particularly "skinny" but it for sure wasn't on the "fat side". I made sure to measure meticulously and as exact as I could.

I hope that was reasonable/the right thing to do. I really don't think/feel he was going to come back down and I didn't want to wait too long to increase.

I don't think my vet will be too pleased that we are increasing without telling her all about it. But with everything that's been going on I did't have time to call in and wait for them to call me back ahhh! They usually have us come in for a fructosamine test before we make these sorts of decisions, but admittedly, money was tight. I am very very very much dreading talking to her next week because she is not aware we increased so I know I'm in for a lecture. I know I'm being childish, but I will put on my big girl panties and deal with it.

I think even if she was involved, she wouldn't trust my decisions. She had us increase his dose and changed his food to DM at the same time then wanted a curve after 7-9 days (only AMPS +4 and +8). I didn't think it was wise to do both at once, but I went along with it. Willy started throwing up, had the worst diarrhea, wasn't eating, but I didn't know which change was doing it to him. I figured it was most LIKELY DM because he stopped eating it when he got out of the hospital and put him back on Fancy Feast but continued with the increased dose. I got (what I felt was) a lecture about how I should have called in and not changed his food cos he would get used to it (the fiber) but I wasn't comfortable with an increase of any amount (especially since he's on a higher dose already) with him not eating or throwing up after every meal. She said I should have tested him still at the end of the period but I hadn't (I should have tested him, she is right about that). He was very sick, the reading was going to undoubtedly be very inaccurate, and I was worried about stressing him out more (this was before we knew he tolerated pad pricks and doing his ear was an hour long ordeal of trying not to get bitten and shanked by him with him going ballistic the whole time until he had no energy left to fight us anymore).

Anyways, I am an anxiety-avoidant type person and I get easily overwhelmed and this is where I "checked out" the last time because I wasn't coping well with my personal feelings. When I felt better, I landed here. I second guess myself a lot, anyways. I make decisions and I see them through but in the back of my mind I'm always second guessing what I did. I am really stressing out (a lot) over seeing her next week but this time I am trying to push through it so I can do what's best for Willy and voice my opinion about it (which I have not done in the past).

I guess what I'm saying is if anyone has any advice or even criticism about anything to offer me for the increase I did today or with speaking to my vet, I would honestly love to hear it.

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 5/6Willy AMPS 421, +2~319 got into the trash

Good for Willy for hurling the DM. Have you read the label? Here's the first several of the ingredients (up to the vitamins and minerals): Liver, poultry by-products, meat by-products, water sufficient for processing, chicken, salmon, oat fiber, salmon meal, guar gum, potassium chloride, carrageenan, salt. First, cats don't need that much liver. (The pre-mix I was using when I was making raw food had 3.5 oz of liver per 2 lbs of raw chicken. Other than liver, DM is made up of by-products. It's not muscle meat. Fancy Feast is far better quality. If your vet thinks that fiber is appropriate for a feline diabetic, his information on diet is considerably out of date. (See Dr. Lisa's site on feline nutrition for more info.) My vet wanted me to feed either DM or Hill's MD. When I brought back 4 cases of the crud, I explained that I was feeding a low carb, canned diet that was lower in carbs than either prescription food, was a higher quality food, and I would be paying less if I bought a human grade cat food like Wellness. She was satisfied that I understood the principle.

Given that you're home testing, why is your vet asking you to pay for a fructosamine test? All a fructosamine test tells you is the average BG over a 2 - 3 week period. This test would be useful if you weren't home testing. But, you are home testing and you have real time data. A fructosamine test doesn't tell you where the nadir is and that's important data with Lantus. Save your money.

As for the dose, I might have suggested waiting until tonight to raise Willy's dose. If he was bouncing off of the greens on 5/3, this evening would have completed the 72 hours for him to clear the bounce. I think you had room to increase. I wouldn't second guess yourself.

As for your vet, is your vet available at midnight if Willy's numbers are running low? Is your vet conversant with the Tight Regulation Protocol? Can your vet give you a cogent rationale for feeding an obligate carnivore a diet of meat by-products and oat fiber? (Or, is the vet making a ton of $$ on the sale of prescription food?) You know your cat. You are employing the vet for her ostensible expertise. Her job is to give you the information in an unbiased, even handed manner so you can make an informed decision. That doesn't mean you deserve to be lectured or told what to do. You can gently push back and ask for information and explanations and, you can always say, "I need to think about this."

My vet does not ask me to report in regarding Gabby's dose. She has the link to our SS and she can take a peek any time she wants. She lets me handle dosing on my own. I suspect this is pretty much the case for most of the beans here. You will become more confident in managing Willy's FD and your vet should be proud of you for doing so -- not lecture you.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Re: 5/6Willy AMPS 421, +2~319 got into the trash

Stephanie: I meant to respond to you yesterday about the lantus but got swamped. I live in Tucson and I've wanted to order from Canada but have not because of the heat and the jostling in the mail. I know alot of folks don't worry about that but I also know Sienne got some lantus at Costco (I think) and the guy really man handled it and several of her pens were bad.

Also...Sienne is so right about the vet. Willy is your kitty and I haven't met a vet yet that can focus entirely on treating FD. But the people in this forum have been doing it for years and years. How many cats has your vet gotten OTJ...especially cats that weren't just dry food cats and came off quickly once they switched to canned food? And Sienne really said it in a nutshell....will your vet be there in the middle of the night? Chances are there will be someone around here; I know being on the west coast area, there have been times I've been up late enough to help someone and then before you know it, the East Coast gang is on. There's a nice way to be with the vet but she works for you; I took all my stuff and my computer and took my vet to lunch. She was AMAZED at what I showed her and I didn't just show her Gracie's SS...I showed her a bunch of them. Really made her rethink the way she was advising clients to treat FD.

Good luck!!!

 

[Stephanie&Willy]

Re: 5/6Willy AMPS 421, +2~319 got into the trash

Sienne, thank you so much. When he was first given the DM after he was released, I looked and the label and was like “eww.” I would like to think I know a fair amount about my dog’s diet, and I wouldn’t even consider for a second letting him near that food so I knew it wasn’t right for Willy but I did try to give it a fair shot. The thing that bothered me most (and I told her this) was being able to get it easy/reliably. My vet office doesn’t carry it normally, they had ordered a weeks worth for Willy to try. Prescription food just seems like a really bad idea to me-- there is always that one can of food that you open up when you’re stockpile is getting a little bit low and it doesn’t look/smell right. The last thing I need is to be waiting on a shipment and be a day short because I had to chuck something for looking like death in a can.

Willy seems to be doing fine on the new dose, considering the lovely breakfast he so considerately fed to himself this morning. :lol: I don’t think it will be fair to start judging his reaction to the dose until tomorrow but he did come down from the 400s and settle in pink for the whole day. He is beginning to get a lot more consistent (flat) it seems like. I am not sure what that means or if it’s even something important. I am hoping to better understand this information someday. Treating Willy hasn’t been an ordeal like we were told it was going to be and I would DEFINITELY want adopt another FD cat in the future but I know not all will be as “easy” or chill as Willy is so before then I have a lot I want and need to learn.

I appreciate the support about the vet. She is more knowledgeable than many others we have met with, but I think she has an idea of the way to treat this and isn’t comfortable deviating from her plan. I am going to try to approach the situation without any preconceived notions and be polite. I should have talked to her sooner, but man, the stuff I’ve had come up in the last 6 weeks is quite literally unbelievable and Willy was/is doing “fine” (outwardly) so it wasn’t the first thing on my mind.

My vet isn’t available at night, at all. They can be kinda slow to call back but they always do. She’s also the only vet I have seen that actually takes time to speak to you and not just get a tech to do it. That is something I really like, I just wish the talking were less like a lecture. If I wanted a lecture I would call my mom and ask her what her opinion of politics is.

I plan to make a list of concerns, observations, and questions before we go such as letting her know about the neuropathy that we are treating and testing for hypothyroidism. I will also print out and bring his SS with the link (awesome idea btw, I think that would solve a lot of the issues I’m concerned about)!

Do you think it would be rude of me to print out some of the studies and information to bring to our appointment? I would keep it in my bag unless I felt it was necessary to discuss. After venting about this and talking to you, I feel a lot more confident in my ability to handle this situation, we should both want what is best for my kitty.


Marje,

oh my goodness Scottish folds! I absolutely adore that breed. I could die right now after seeing your beautiful family. If I may ask, do you rescue/adopt? If that is an inappropriate question, I apologize. Where pets come from can be a sensitive subject for some-- I don‘t want to offend. I am not ready for any more fur children right now, but I really want a Scottish fold someday. It broke my heart when a beautiful grey guy was up for adoption at the humane society, but I really cannot have any more animals right now without taxing the quality of life for the ones I have. He did find a home though.

Gah! It would be nice to order from Canada, but the heat is a real issue for us. To be honest, I am sort of surprised I thought of it like that. I guess I AM learning! :lol: I will probably continue to go through Walgreens. I don’t have a membership to one of those fancy places and it really is convenient to have a 24hr pharmacy that we can go to without having to wait for them to verify a prescription. They are also reasonably priced (I know they are cheaper than getting it through any vet or the hospital).

OTJ is a very good point. I don’t think I would ask that directly, but I’m sure I know the answer. I like your focus comment- I don’t expect her to focus 100% on Willy, so if they were to expect me to bend over backwards to keep them UTD on my changes, that really wouldn’t be fair (I won’t know if they expected this until I see them next week-- it is quite possible I am overreacting).

I have gotten so much support (and it has all been so positive, it is such a blessing) since I have come here, I never once felt ashamed for asking questions and people are so willing to share their experience and information and even explain it in easier words when needed. I’ve been told “I don’t know” to many questions and given super generic handouts as homework with the most scientific terms they could find advocating things shooting in the scruff! so I am so happy and blessed to have found this place and start fixing what I thought I knew.

I have never thought about a vet (or even a doctor) as “working for me” before. That’s kinda empowering, actually. Not in the way where I would ever be rude/ disrespectful/ condescending or feel “entitled“, but more in the way where I shouldn’t feel anxious voicing my opinions in a mutually respectful sorta way. Thank you for that!

Thank you for the support <3

 

[Sienne and Gabby (GA)]

Re: 5/6Willy AMPS 421, +2~319 got into the trash

The pharmacy person who smacked my Lantus was not at Costco. They are better trained. I buy my Lantus at a hospital pharmacy. Go figure. They have a College of Pharmacy and it was their counter person who thought banging the box against the counter was a really good way to get the Lantus into a bag despite my screaming. Just an FYI -- often you can purchase a single pen at a hospital pharmacy vs. needing to buy a box.

I'm pretty sure you can use the pharmacy at Costco or Sam's Club without being a member.

I didn't mean to slam your vet. I think vets have a totally thankless task. They are expected to know everything about every species and know all illnesses and be able to treat those illnesses both medically and surgically. With humans, we may see a primary care MD but are then referred to other medical specialists who have expertise in a particular field and if surgery is needed, there are a range of specialists there, too. It's not a surprise that most vets can't stay on top of everything in the field. I suspect that most vets are not fully conversant about the long-acting types of insulin since it's not what they were trained on or most familiar with using. Lantus and Lev are different and vets apply what they know about the shorter acting insulin. Likewise, their knee jerk is to ask for fructosamine levels because most people don't home test. Once they think about it, they see that logic isn't the same. Hopefully, it's just a matter of having a conversation with the vet so she can see your point without becoming defensive. I sometimes wonder if the vets take such an 'in your face' approach because it must break their hearts when people will not go the extra mile for their companions and opt to PTS an animal that is treatable.

 

[Stephanie&Willy]

Re: 5/6Willy AMPS 421, +2~319 got into the trash

Hehe Sienne, I know you weren't slamming her! TBH I was trying to think of some positives to even it out because I felt like I was complaining an awful lot. I'm totally that person that when things are going south, I will step back for a moment and think of a few things that are ok, even though the situation as a whole may not be.

One vet we saw at one point flat out said they don't know anything about FD and would rather not see him because a lot of things would be an exception for him, like vaccinations (this is how we found new vet). New vet is young, not much older than I am, so I wonder if she feels like she might be seeking some validation. I know I have been. It could also be her first time working with a cat with like.. real FD.. so there could be a steep learning curve. (here I go with the positives again)

I am looking forward to learning more about FD, I know it will take time and experience. I know Willy isn't even close to being better but he seems much happier than he did even a month ago (maybe because of all the extra lovins he is getting for his BG tests!)

I have a question about flatness vs. up and down when looking at numbers, but it may take me a day or so to think about how to properly compose my thoughts as a question.

 

[Marje and Gracie]

Hi Stephanie...didn't see a condo for you today so thought I'd answer here.

Yes, I work in the Scottish Fold Rescue and we have had several SFs to place in Arizona and CA as well so if you ever get to that point, let me know. Thank you for your comments on our babies...they are beautiful and it is such a lovely breed. Never had purebred cats before them...just tons of rescues but one hot Saturday in Phoenix 165years ago we decided to go to a cat show to stay cool and that's where we met the first breeder we got three cats from. Our Teddi (almost 16), Gus (15), and much beloved and miss GA Max were from that breeder...great, great people with alot of attention to the health of their cats. A CFA cattery of excellence. They quit breeding due to the woman's health problems. Then I saw Miss Gracie on another well known breeder's website. I went to Toronto to get her. Her dad was best CFA cat (national) and best of breed. And then finally Tobey came from a great breeder in Nashville, TN...I got him last summer at 13 weeks. Addicted to Scottish Folds!!!

Sometimes vets are open to education when you bring them all the facts and information. Some vets, it is more about their ego than the cat. If you get "internet or me" attitude, then you know the answer to the vet question. Many of us have been told we are killing our cats by letting them go below 200. Aahh...and what about my civvie who runs in the 40s??

Sorry Sienne...couldn't remember if it was costco or where but thanks for the correction.

 

[Christie & Willie (GA)]

Sienne is right... by law in every state, pharmacies cannot be "members only," so Costco, Sams, BJs, etc. all must allow anyone to use their pharmacy. They will often offer a small discount card for members, but it isn't much. If you are a AAA member, be sure to present your card because it offers a discount as well. My costco store allows me to buy pens individually, which has been great!

We went through a couple vets before we were able to find a winner. Marjorie put it best... if it is the "me or the internet" attitude, the vet may not be a good fit for your needs in addressing Willy's FD. Our first vet was like that, and it became clear quickly that the two vets at the clinic didn't have the most up to date information and believed in keeping cats numbers pretty high. They too constantly pushed their prescription diets, along with pricey additional procedures. I felt I was at a car dealership at times! They basically kicked me out of their practice because I wouldn't give them 100% control over Willie's dosing decisions. Like you, I had another vet that refused to see Willie (unfortunate, because he was 2 blocks form the apartment!). We now have a team of specialty vets.. Willie had a lot of issues a few months back, and we've found a family vet that told me that it was clear that I had a good handle on Willie's diabetes and said to bring him in if he ever needed anything... a checkup for infection, vaccines, routine bloodwork, etc. We haven't been to the vet in over 2 months. I think you just need to go in being as gentle and kind as you can, but also at the same time, as firm. Explain that you have done extensive research on FD, you have selected the treatment protocol that best meets yours and Willy's needs, and that is the protocol that you will be following. Let your vet know that you welcome her feedback and encourage her to actively learn along with you, but make it clear that you are the decision maker, not her. I'm pretty good at being assertive, but what helped me greatly when I had conflict with my vet was to remind myself that Willie couldn't speak for himself, so I had to speak for him... and I had done all the research so that I could be the best possible advocate for him as possible, and that this message board and its protocol was, in my educated opinion, the best opportunity for him to achieve remission.

The last thing you need to be spending money on is expensive low-quality food and unnecessary testing at the vet. I'd also encourage your vet to look at some of the spreadsheets of cats who are following the protocol. If she is open to learning, I think she may be a keeper, and you've helped other diabetic cats who will follow Willy in her practice. If not, well, I'd strongly consider a new vet. We found our vet because I had suspected Willie might have a UTI, so I took him in for some tests. At that time, I went over the protocol, Willie's spreadsheet, etc. with the vet and simply let her know that it was what we WERE doing and that I was looking for a family vet who was comfortable with the protocol and was willing to allow me to make dosing decisions. She thought he was doing great, that I was clearly doing something right, and that she's be happy to be Willie's vet.

Fingers and paws crossed that all goes well. I still remember all to well how much dealing with all of the vet drama sucked. I am confident you will do great and you'll be in a better situation, whether with this vet or a new one, soon!