5/6/15 Oz still Bouncing

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Ian & Oz

Ian & Oz

Member Since 2014
Hello,
Since the last time I checked in, my wife Erin has been using a caliper to measure out Oz's doses. We realized that the dose he was at, that was aggressively keeping him a little too low was actually 3.6u instead of the 2.75 that was showing on the syringe. We then reduced him to 3u & stayed there for about 9 days. We then raised his dose up to 3.125u, the idea is to try & move him up in smaller increments since he bounces so easily when we move him in half units. We kept him on the 3.125u dose for about 18 days, he had some green numbers on that dose & since he bounces we tried to keep him there for awhile. Recently we moved him up again to 3.25u since he wasn't staying very low consistently. I'm needing input on why Oz seems to just keep bouncing, everything makes him bounce. The dose change makes him bounce, the first low number makes him bounce, the next low number makes him bounce etc. I can't find a pattern to why he does this. Oz has asthma & also FHV which is the feline herpes virus that quite a few cats have. I don't know if a flare up of the virus can affect his numbers or not.
 
The good news is that it's been a while since he's seen pink. Getting over bounces is a process that can take time. Cats bounce until they stop bouncing. And some don't - 3.5 years later and Neko still bounces. I just celebrate if she doesn't go pink.

I notice some big drops on Oz's spreadsheet, for example on 4/22 he went from an AMPS of 190 to below 50 a little over three hours later. Fast drops, around over 50 points an hour, can also cause drops. What sort of feeding schedule is Oz on? I wonder if another snack around +2 might help slow down the fast drops. You wouldn't give extra food, just reserve a little of his breakfast until later.

If he's feeling stuffed up from the asthma or FHV, that might also impact the numbers. It is pollen season. Do you give him anything to help with the asthma?
 
Hi Wendy, Thank you for responding. I feed Oz & our other two cats at shot time, 9:30 a.m. then again around 2:00 p.m & then at 6:30 p.m, the 2 & 6:30 times can fluctuate depending on if he's really wanting food or not. The fast drops seem to come with a dose change, but I can't be sure that's what causes it. He gets flovent, which is a human asthma inhaler attached to a breathing mask similar to one for a baby. He gets this twice a day, everyday. Do his numbers seem ok, in spite of all the bouncing? Other than tight regulation, what is the limit (highest number) that we want to keep them under for their health?
 
From someone who's cat was named the diving diva, Oz's numbers don't look bad at all. (Gabby was known to start the day in the 400s, drop to the 40s, and zoom back up to the 400s so Oz's SS looks pretty good for a bouncy kitty!)

One way to address some of the drops is to front load Oz's food. In other words, rather than providing meals late in the cycle, spread the food out before his nadir. That way, food is there to offset the drop in numbers.

Some cats to seem to have a response to an increase in dose despite most cats not showing much of a response until the depot stabilizes. This is one of those "every cat is different" situations. What I would say is to try your strategy of increasing in smaller amounts and see if it helps. The consideration may be whether Oz develops glucose toxicity. The term sounds worse than it is. Basically, it means that his body adjusts to being in higher numbers than you would like. Those numbers become Oz's new "normal." As a result, it's harder to get the numbers to come down. I don't know if this will happen but it's something to be attentive to.

As for what's the highest that you want your cat to be, ideally you want numbers under renal threshold. Unfortunately, there's not a "fixed" number for this although it's often suggested that you want to try to keep numbers under 220. The only way to really determine where your cat's renal threshold is would be to get urine glucose tests. (You can get Ketodiastix which test for both ketones and urinary glucose.) At the point where you no longer see glucose in the urine, is when you're below renal threshold.

Ian & Oz said:
...the idea is to try & move him up in smaller increments since he bounces so easily when we move him in half units.
Click to expand...
Did you mean you were increasing his dose by 0.5u? Your SS looks like you were increasing by 0.25u.

 
Hi Sienne, thank you for responding.
Yes, we're increasing/decreasing by .25 to try & help with the bouncing & also to try & find the best dose for his system. I'll see what I can do in regards to his feeding.
 
The bouncing isn't necessarily a bad thing. Seems like a lot of cats bounce until they spend more time in green numbers. I think you're basically doing fine - the only thing I can think to add to the good advice you've already gotten is that some cats respond well to having the dose increased slightly while keeping the nadirs up over 50. There is a post on "Feeding the Curve" that describes how to do that. Look in the second half of the "Where Can I Find?" post for that link.
 
Thank you Julie, I'll check that out. It just seems that Oz won't stop bouncing, the slightest things send him back up again, over & over.
 
Skooter used to LOVE to bounce....it drove me nuts.....I just wish there was a rhyme or reason to it so we could figure it out.....
 
He looked best at the 3.6u dose...which is marked at 2.75u on his SS since you didn't know it was actually 3.6u. He got into the high 40s a couple of times but if you were doing three times between 40-50 on three separate days or once below 40, for reductions, he hadn't "earned" one although sometimes the cycle is really demanding and you're working to keep numbers up...that could signal a reduction is needed.

If he were mine, because you test a lot and have a lot of data and experience, I'd probably increase a bit ...add some fat to fine tune the dose and bring in more green and maybe less bouncing. He might still bounce but perhaps you'll see less. If you feed a LC food that is more in the 6-10% range, you might be able to give him a little more insulin without him going lower than you like.

Basically, there is nothing wrong with what you're doing now. If you are happy with his nadirs and he's clearing the bounce quickly, you can leave the dose and give him more time. But if you would like to see the overall curve come down a bit, try a little more insulin.
 
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Thank you Marje, I'm watching this new dose & if he doesn't move much I'll bump him up. I'm hoping he has a sweet spot, but that may be wishful thinking. Thank you very much for your help with the SS too!
 
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