5/30 Cobb AMPS 190(no R) +4 209 +7 165 PMPS 146

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Suzanne & Cobb(GA)

Suzanne & Cobb(GA)

Member Since 2013
Woot!!

Yesterday

That blue looks so nice on you Cobb!!

So I wake up this morning. Cobb is the first thing I do when I get up. I look around, because he's usually waiting to eat. And I don't see him anywhere! I call him and immediately hear purring. I think to myself, there's no way he's under the bed. We have a low profile bed and no way for him to get under it, unless he goes join from the headboard. So I start to the back of the bed to check things out, and I hear this small, pitiful "meow" from behind me. I turn around and notice a laundry basket is upside down. It wasn't like that when I went to sleep. There he is...trapped under the basket. :lol: :roll: :lol: So funny! I asked Matt if he had seen him when he left for work at 2:30a and he said no. So who knows how long the little guy had been under the basket. And...since he didn't eat at 2:30a, that means it had been almost 9-10 hours since he last ate. I'm guessing that contributed to his lower BG this morning? We saw the same effect when we took him to my parents house in April, remember? I'm going to have to figure out the food thing. That's why I was trying zero carb food later in the cycle, but that didn't seem to have the same effect...thoughts?? He's a PITA if he doesn't eat overnight. I know many of you lock the cats out of the bedroom at night. I would have to confine him to the laundry room.

Question: if I did that, and his morning BG's were lower, do you think that would result in a wave of lower BGs overall? Because if they didn't climb due to food, perhaps the antibodies wouldn't have the opportunity to swoop in and take advantage of those higher numbers? Am I thinking about that wrong?

Happy Friday all!

~Suzanne
 
WOOT - No R and completely under renal threshold. :cool: :cool: :cool:

Poor Cobb under the laundry basket. :lol: What is it made of? Neko used to love to go for a ride in my wicker basket and I'm pretty sure she could turn it over.

Antibodies respond to the invasion of injected insulin. The amount of food Cobb eats shouldn't have any impact on that. However, if he starts lower and you don't shoot R, there is less insulin for the antibodies to chew on, although I've read that they prefer the longer acting insulins for dinner. Then there is the whole delay factor with IAA. The antibodies can hold onto insulin and then let go of it to go after some new insulin, but then the insulin they let go of can do it's work. The whole seemingly random nature of IAA just makes my head spin.

I give Neko some mostly zero carb food late in the cycle because otherwise she'd be a complete PITA around +9. I justified it partly because she is an acro cat, which can mean a working pancreas. The food could stimulate the pancreas and in fact lower numbers. Often on Lantus Neko's PMPS would be lower than her +9. Hard to tell if it was just her having a late nadir though. This is a trick that can only be used on an acrocat.
 
Wowser Cobb! What a super day!

I suspect I'm the only meanie that locks my kitties away at night. and if my husband weren't Mr. Meanie, they would definitely be in the bedroom with me, even if they walked on my head at night. :lol: i just love having a kitty snuggle up at night. *sigh*

I don't know the answer to your question. We know that food in the second half of the cycle can drive up numbers as the insulin wanes. Punkin didn't eat overnight (after +3) and he was fine, but he was at the other end of the house or i'm sure we couldn't have slept through him either.

Too funny on the laundry basket! poor cobb! but it makes a good story! ;-) :-D I have a picture of each of my kids - somewhere - having a tantrum wrapped around my legs. I'd grab the camera first and then turn back into the mommy who would console them. :lol:
 
I know Neko has acro and IAA. I was under the impression that IAA means the pancreas isn't working properly because of the diabetes. Am I wrong on that? Cobb didn't eat as much today. I think 1/4 can less than usual. Actually, a 1/2 can less than usual. If he's acro, I wonder if the tumor is waning a bit...not as hungry, and better numbers??

:sigh: The laundry basket is plastic. I vaguely remember hearing something last night but didn't think it was that. I talked to Matt about locking Cobb in the laundry ro at night, but he didn't think that was fair to Cobb. :roll: I tried to convince him he'd get more uninterrupted sleep. I figured that would be a selling point, oh well.

We are very happy with today's cycle, but bracing for whatever is next. Just gotta take it one cycle at a time.
 
no, that's not what iaa is. The pancreas isn't working for whatever reason, same as all the other diabetic cats. The insulin that we inject is perceived as a foreigner, so the body develops antibodies against it. Those antibodies bind up the insulin so the 2 particles are floating about in the bloodstream together. the antibodies + insulin particles prevent the insulin from getting the glucose into the cells.

that's the iaa risk - at some point the antibodies will release the insulin and if that happens there can be a flush of insulin getting freed and allowing the glucose to get into the cells. Antibodies do die, and that process is likely going on already. Sometimes holding and sometimes releasing. Perhaps you're seeing a die-off of antibodies today and that's why he doesn't seem to need as much insulin.

i think i'm saying that right.
 
You are right Julie. Here's from the definition on the Acro/IAA forum:
When insulin is injected into a diabetic cat, the body views it as a foreign substance and the immune system sets out to destroy the "invader" insulin, just as it would destroy cold and flu viruses. When this happens to injected insulin - most of it never reaches the bloodstream thus being unable to control blood glucose. Insulin doses may be increased but the immune system only goes into higher gear and continues to effectively destroy any additional injected insulin. Over time this becomes officially known as insulin resistance.
Click to expand...
 
somehow i had the idea that the insulin + antibodies were actually in the bloodstream, bound together.

i also was told that most cats getting insulin have some antibodies. Punkin had 7%, with 20% or less considered normal.
 
Yeah, I phrased my question wrong. What I meant was that acro cats aren't necessarily diabetic, but IAA cats are, hence why the pancreas isn't working properly whereas an acro cat's pancreas may be working.

Nevermind...you're telling me what I'm thinking. I'm just not writing it correctly. :roll:
 
yes, acro cats are diabetic. just like every other diabetic cat has a cause for their diabetes, acro cats do too. their diabetes is caused by the benign tumor on their pituitary gland. the possible difference is that at least at first, a cat with acro has a working pancreas. the tumor's hormones block the insulin from being able to get into the cells.

i asked Dr. Lunn that question - she said that yes, they are absolutely diabetic. they require insulin. But . . .if the beta cells survive they can continue to produce some insulin. that's why some acro cats can go off of insulin - if their tumor production wanes, the hormones disappear and the cat's own insulin does the job.

the thing is that in Dr. Rand's studies, cats that have their blood sugar over 548 (i think that's the # - it's 550ish) for 3 days solid have their pancreatic beta cell production of insulin drop to almost nothing. One theory as to the rise in diabetic cats is that the constant high carb diet is just wearing out their beta cells. Darn, i just reread that yesterday but am not sure where i saw it. It might be in that new PDF on the TR sticky. I can go looking if you want me to try to find it. Just say so.

Anyway, the point is that if any cat, acro or otherwise, has high enough BGs for long enough, the beta cells become scarred and won't restart their insulin production. i suspect that's why some cats (punkin?) who've had SRT don't go OTJ. Even if the tumor is completely killed, they might or might not be able to resume production.

other diabetic cats can also have sputtering pancreas beta cells too - that's how any diabetic cat can go OTJ. I've never bought into the theory that acro cats are so different from any other diabetic cat.
 
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