5/3 Hershey Q about increasing

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Doug N Libby

Doug N Libby

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So, I made his 12:15am PMPS into 5/3 AMPS because it just made more sense to me - just to explain why his TID only had two cycles yesterday. :smile:

AMPS (270) +8 - Shot .5u at 12:15am

TID Questions:

- What if we're going to be gone most of the cycle (like right after shooting)? Do we reduce? Shoot BID? We have a couple of cycles coming up like that.
- And - for those cycles - what would be the most important tests to try to get? Or, do we just test right before walking out the door?

Bringing Joseph home Tuesday or Wednesday, won't know until he knows his exam schedule. So, still not sure when I'll be gone those days. I can't see trying to take him with us since it'd mean spending most of the day in the carrier. Of course, that presents a problem with feeding since they eat different foods...I've read about different contraptions so only one cat can fit through the opening, etc. But, Oreo is the pudge one, so Hershey could fit through any opening Oreo could.


+2.5 (216) - Uber tired, didn't think I could make it :30. Will test again at +6. See you then!
+6 (271) - Now that really makes me wonder about the +2.5

Doug will be testing/feeding/shooting at 8:15am, so I was bringing up to speed on TID. I'm thinking when the PS is lower, we need to lower the dose, like the sliding scale? So, like we had changed the scale to shooting .4u into 200-249, then we wouldn't shoot .5u now...that is...when we ever get a PS that low...Is my thinking correct?

MDPS (374) past +8.25 - Shot .5u at 8:40am
+4 (268)
+6 Vomit - pea soup hairball
+6.5 (323)

PMPS (376) +7.75 - Shot .5u at 4:25pm
+3 (282)
+6 (318)
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey AMPS (270) +2.5(216) +6(271)

I would think with the response that Hershey has shown to have to insulin on some cycles, that you would NOT want to shoot a dose on a tid cycle that was deemed too high on bid cycle. Due to the possibility of insulin overlap on tid, then the dose could actually be "increased" on the tid schedule. I would shoot conservatively on the tid schedule initially, gather the data and then adjust the dose accordingly. Just like with bid, once you shoot enough tid you will "learn" what dose is safe into different preshots.

Go slow and be safe and gather the data! I shoot somewhat of a sliding scale, I just don't have it "written down"--but, I adjust Kitty's dose between 2.8 and 3.2 according to her preshots.

Hang In There! So far it looks promising to me!
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey AMPS (270) +2.5(216) +6(271)

You seem to be settling in nicely to this new adventure, Libby. I think conservative data gathering is the way to go.

While you are gone, could you put them in different rooms - Hershey with a automatic feeder? Or have someone come over just at dinner time?
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey MSPS (374) Off schedule? Then what?

Doug was awake at shot time, so I went back to sleep. I woke up at 8:30am, so Doug gave the shot at 8:40. Now we're :25 off. What kind of leeway do we have with shot time? I was figuring not much since they're only 8 hrs apart. I can't believe we're off already... :YMSIGH:

MDPS (374) Past +8.25 - Shot .5u at 8:40am

Sue - I doubt I could find anybody to come over at mealtime, but I can try. I could shut Oreo up in the bathroom while we're gone, but that's a long time in a small room. He'd be lonely and I know he'd cry pretty much the whole time. :cry: I thought about just leaving Oreo less than a full meal in his automatic feeder (so maybe he could finish it before Hershey shoves him out of the way) and hope for the best. Oreo eats Friskies Pate, which are low carb, just much higher carb than Hershey is fed. Maybe just go with the lowest carb of the pates...

Shooting conservatively is what I was thinking, too, Kim. That's what I had said to Doug.
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey MSPS (374) Off schedule? Then what?

Okay - found out the wayyy less than ideal plan for moving Joseph home. We need to leave about 2 hours before shot time and will be gone through the next shot time. arrgghh - WHY can't the university understand that things revolve around MY KITTY???!!

If I could (once I hear your thoughts of leeway time of shots) (after Sunday) start extending his shot times (because that sounds safer to me than pushing them closer together) to get him to be ready to shoot, say 4 hours before we leave...that way we could test at least at +2...or 3 hrs before we leave we could test at +3...may be gone as long as 15 hours, unless the RA takes pity and squeezes us in sooner...See??? wayyy less than ideal...

KIM - Did you see my TID questions on the initial post?

I hope y'all are having a wonderful day!! Everything is turning white here...Doug is sanding :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey MSPS (374) Off schedule? Then what?

No experience with TID so can't answer the dose questions, but love the idea of feeding them both low carb. Might be the start of an easier food arrangement in your house if Oreo gets low carb and decides it is good?
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey MSPS (374) Off schedule? Then what?

Sue - I've had Oreo on Friskies Pate for a while now. Actually started him on Wellness, but he stopped eating it. Silly thing - ate the SAME FLAVOR of dry for 5 years! Then, when we started increasing the wet and decreasing the dry (just to finish it up) he started refusing the dry until he got the wet (Wellness). Shortly after we went to all Wellness, he stopped eating it! Tried different varieties, different temperatures (Hershey wants his straight from the fridge!), elevating the bowl (or not), spooning feeding, dropping a treat in to entice him...every day we try things until we hit on the right one for that meal. Then, nothing worked. Changed to Friskies Pate and (except for a few meals) he woofs it down! Hope this continues...there were many on the list I could make myself buy that we could also afford to buy!
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey MSPS (374) Off schedule? Then what?

First, let me answer the question about being off 25 mins and then I will go and reread the other post and see if I can help!

The 25 mins really isn't a Big Deal. Just to be safe-- shot your midshot at 7 hrs and 50 min and then your pm shot at 7 hrs and 45 mins-- then you should be back on schedule-- just be sure the number is rising. When I first started bid dosing and tid dosing, I stuck very strict to the schedule. But, after months of both, I realized that if the number is rising and high enough to shoot-- as long as you are within 15 mins of shot time you are okay and it will not get you off schedule. That is one of the beauties of Prozinc-- it is very flexible!
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey MSPS (374) Off schedule? Then what?

TID Questions:

- What if we're going to be gone most of the cycle (like right after shooting)? Do we reduce? Shoot BID? We have a couple of cycles coming up like that.
- And - for those cycles - what would be the most important tests to try to get? Or, do we just test right before walking out the door?


I think this will ultimately be based on what you are comfortable with. Originally when I started tid, I tested A LOT! I would leave work and go home and test during the cycle, just to be sure there was no data that I was missing. As time went on, I tested only at +4 and now-- or prior to Kitty's illness, I only test during the cycle when I would start getting wonky preshots. For a long period, Kitty was very predictable on tid-- preshots in the mid 200s and nadirs around 150. As long as she continually got these results--- I only tested at preshot. BUT, if I got extremely higher preshots or lower preshots-- I would test a cycle to determine what was happening. It is so easy to see a 500 preshot and with no midcycle tests want to increase, but I found with Kitty that many of the 500 preshots were due to dropping low and bouncing. But, now I shoot walk out the door and come home and repeat it in 8 hours with no midcycle tests. BUT, I admit, if I was early into tid dosing and was not comfortable leaving without testing, due to lack of data-- then I would reduce the dose. Reducing is always a safe option. Sometimes, I think we all get too consumed with the numbers and one particular cycle. While we all want our cats in the best numbers possible, one cycle running a little higher than normal is not going to create a problem. BUT, one cycle running too low can be VERY bad! I would reduce and be sure you can leave home comfortably and I would deal with the higher numbers on the next cycle.

I always think the Most important tests on tid are the early ones (+2 to +4)--due to the possibility of overlap. You want to ensure that the cat is not dropping too fast.
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey MSPS (374) Off schedule? Then what?

Haha.... The university understanding their schedule revolving around Hershey.
Actually if these FD cats would just act right whenever we have something important to go to or attend, life would be so much easier.
Why can't they just trust us & stop pulling tricks out if their hats. Silly cats Trixs are for kids.
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey MSPS (374) +4(268)

+4 (268)

paha, Jenn, let me know when you can convince Baxter to cooperate with your schedule and I'll have him call Hershey to 'splain it to him!
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey MSPS (374) +4(268)

It looks like you are off to a good start. I can't believe the university is unwilling to be flexible to Hershey's schedule, who do they think they are? :lol:
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey MSPS (374) +4(268) +6.5(323)

I know, Robin! :roll:

+6 Vomit - pea soup hairball - Not sure how much this played into +6.5 BG
+6.5 (323)
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey MSPS (374) +4(268) +6.5(323)

The numbers are running a little high, stick with the dose and continue to test. But, if the numbers continue this high, you might need to increase. The data will tell us.
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey MSPS (374) +4(268) +6.5(323)

Looked a little high to me, too. Was hoping we were pretty close, but considering he was up to roughly 2u/day and we cut him back to 1.5, guess I shouldn't be surprised. :15 until PMPS and we'll see what lovelies it brings us...
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey PMPS(376)

PMPS (376) +7.75 - Shot .5u at 4:25pm

Hershey is NOT playing by the rules! Kind of like playing a board game with a 4-year old and they change the rules to suit them...

Usually hold his dose ~10 cycles/5 days. Since TID is 3 cycles/day, does that mean hold for 3 days? 4 days? or 5 days? before deciding he doesn't like the dose? We had those 2 yellow PS's; I had hoped the start to a trend, but maybe not...
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey PMPS(376)

I would not wait long to increase the dose. It appears you are getting no overlap and thus there shouldn't be any danger in increasing by .1 and seeing what happens. You are testing and well prepared for low numbers. I would not increase by any larger than a .1 increment.
 
Re: 5/3 Hershey PMPS(376) +3(282)

+3 (282)

So, increase by .1u at 12:15am? or maybe wait until 8:15am when I'll be up the whole cycle...
 
At 8:15am, when we increase, do we do it across the board or more of a sliding scale notion? Seems the .5 into the yellow PS's (the 257 and 270) seemed like it wasn't quite enough. The .5u into the (374, 376 and 392) seemed nowhere close.

Was thinking maybe something like
250-299 .5u and 300-349 .7u...and seeing what happens...or is that way off base??

The BID sliding scale had been 250-299 .6u and 300-349 .8u, until 4/29 when the upper range was increased to .9u.
 

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Just under an hour until MDPS...wondering about how to increase...with the way his PS's have been, he'll probably need the highest dose, so .6u. Then, again, his +7 was (250) - the lowest I caught in the cycle...
 
I know I probably am no help with this, but I will give you my thoughts! I do agree that the .5 dose looks too low into all preshots and it apppears there is no overlap on this dose. Once you increase the dose, and hopefully get lower numbers, the preshots should come down. What you need to be careful of is, if you increase from .5 to .7 -- that dose could be a .6 unit increase during a 24 hour period if you have 3 preshots above 300. So, you would be going from 1.5 daily dose (based on the .5 x 3 times a day) to possibly 2.1 daily dose (.7 X 3 times a day)-- 25 percent increase daily. If you go to .6 instead, then you will be going from 1.5 to 1.8 daily. When I look at your SS, I do not see a 24 hours period that more than 2 units was given. My thoughts are, I would not want to jump immediately to a daily dose higher than you were giving on bid--- since overlap can be an issue. I think I would go to .6 and give that a day or so before stepping up to .7. All of that being said.... the .6 dose probably is too low! But, I would rather go slow.

Let me share this....and everyone might now see my logic in these thoughts! When Kitty started tid I decreased her dose, to be safe, just like you have done. But, I had a hard time understanding why I needed to significantly reduce a dose--- when the reason I was going to 8 hour cycles was because the insulin was not lasting 12 hours. So, if the insulin was gone in 8 hours, thus making me shoot early--- why did I need to reduce a dose? The reason I was shooting early, was because my data showed and proved that at +9 thru +12 on bid there was no insulin left for Kitty.......SO, why did I need to reduce! (Am I making sense?!) I just state this to say........if Hershey is going to tid because the insulin is gone at 8 hours...then his dose could very well be very close to what it was on BID. BUT, I would not go there quickly......I would step the dose up slowly! If and when you get back close to your bid dose/scale--- then you probably will get into overlap and your momentum will start and THEN you will start to see a need to reduce your dose and you might end up back at these lower doses we are trying now, because your preshots will come down and be more reflective of the +8 numbers you were getting on BID-- when that happens you will need to reduce the dose.......We just need to SAFELY get there! (I hope this makes sense!) So, .5 or .6 might be the "correct" tid dose....eventually!

BUT, for now--- GO Slow!
 
I don't think I should be allowed on the computer at night
sleeping-at-work.gif
because I'm pretty sure I meant to type .5 for 250-299 and .6 for 300-349. Honestly, I proofread it and everything...

Sounds like that's what you're thinking, too. And, yes, I'm all for not increasing too quickly.

Thanks, again, Kim - we'll see what 8:15 brings :smile:
 
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