5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 PMBG 175 (Super-long...sorry!)

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Amy&TrixieCat

Member Since 2011
Yesterday

Thank you, everyone, for your replies and support yesterday. Trix has become a never-ending mystery these days! Today has been pretty much the same: she's snuggly and social, but I have to do the plate holding for her.

To answer a couple questions and comments off the top from last night's condo:

The addition of kibble is two-fold: to get her interested in eating her wet food again, as well as to get some extra calories in her. I'm putting the kibbles on top of her wet food, and she does "dig in" to the wet food to get the kibbles. I'm not using a lot of kibbles for this...maybe 5 or so at a time. I really don't want to use too much kibble, but at this point, she needs the boost, so we'll do what we have to do.

With the Fancy Feast as a big part of her current diet...I couldn't agree more, Tina. It is far from ideal with regards to its phosphorous levels. However, it is currently one of the very few things she will currently willingly eat that is also LC. Before the pancreatitis, she was eating low phosphorous/LC foods, but now she has an understandable aversion to those foods. And, even before the p-titis, she hated a lot of the low phos/LC options...if I even attempted to put EVO in front of her when she was at her healthiest, she would walk away without even taking a lick. At this point, I am using a binder most of the time, so I hope that is helping with keeping the phosphorous down for her. And I'm not using binder ALL the time, because sometimes she does seem to reject food with the binder in it.

And, FWIW Tina, you did give me some comfort by saying that your kitty's ulcers would heal. Even if the healing isn't permanent, healing is healing and that is hope.

Between the kibble and the Fancy Feast, her food situation is far from ideal, but as we all know...a cat HAS to eat. I told the vet yesterday I feel very trapped about her food situation. This is where sometimes having too much information at our fingertips is a bad thing: I can't tell you how much it stresses me out that I can't convince her to eat what she should eat to remain healthiest. It's practically paralyzing me.

At this point, I am really trying to keep her off insulin, not because I mind shooting, but because I'm really scared about trying to steer numbers with a cat whose appy is wonky and iffy. I have been very fortunate that her pancreas seems to be working well enough right now to keep her numbers down without insulin. So, I really don't want to go down the road of low phos foods that might be higher carb just yet. Hopefully the kibble won't mess that up too much, but if it does, we may have to use a small amount and until her appy is happier, we won't be able to be as rigid with TR. FD by itself was easy to manage...throw in the CKD, high BP, and pancreatitis or potential ulcer/GI bleeding, and my head is about to explode. I know many of you have juggled multiple issues for years...my hat's off to each and every one of you.

And of course now I'm wondering if this hasn't been pancreatitis all along....maybe it has been an ulcer. One of those things we may never know for sure, but hopefully the BW will provide some answers.

BTW, my vet mentioned yesterday that she is not a fan of the Weruva fuds, like the Paw Lickin' Chicken that Trix was so fond of (and which she now has an aversion to thanks to the p-titis). She said it is the too low caloried (I knew that) and she doesn't feel it is a complete diet. They've had cats come in who have lost weight and gotten sick from it. Soooooo....now I have to wonder about THAT choice, since this was one of the things she was eating when she got sick. Ugh!

I think Trix can't believe her little nose when she smells a few kibbles on her plate! I do have to shop around for some better kibbles for her...right now, all I have are the civvies' kibble, and none of them can digest the high protein/LC stuff...just another crazy corner of my life.

I am curious to see what the BW shows. Trix's case is so strange. Her appy is weird and I have to follow her around to get her to eat a fair amount, but at the same time, she LOOKS good...she really doesn't have a the look of a cat that doesn't feel well (or have insanely high kidney values), if you know what I mean. She's snuggly and social and not all balled up or meatloafing or hiding. Her eyes are bright and her ears are perky. That is one of the things that is really confusing the vet, who literally said yesterday that she is having a hard time figuring out the path to follow because Trix's behaviors don't match her numbers. She doesn't want to over- or under-medicate her. It's all so weird and surreal.

I also want to clarify my comments about the possibility of GI bleeding and/or an ulcer, as I don't think I explained it well last night.The vet wasn't disregarding the possibility/probability of a GI bleed/ulcer or brushing it off as being a minor thing. I think I made it sound like she thought it was no biggie and that is totally not the case. She knows it's something that needs to be addressed, but wants to get the full picture from the BW before deciding the course of action, and I think she was trying to ease MY mind a bit because although something like this is serious no matter what, it seems like it's something we've caught very early since Trix's gums look pink and she, for the most part, is feeling quite spunky and feisty. One of the reasons she thinks we should probably switch to Zantac is because of the possibility/probability of an ulcer, but she needs to research that it won't interact with her BP meds, and she wants to see the BW results to see if we need to consider switching from LRS to a different SubQ fluid (I hope not...I just bought a full case of LRS and with the shortage, they are not super cheap these days!). I hope that makes more sense.

My vet is just insanely awesome. I don't know how she manages to spend SO much extra time with me, both in the office and on the phone. She genuinely cares about Trixie and is working so hard to make all the best decisions for her.

BTW, I think there was another possible Trixie poop in the box...it was uncovered and in the corner where she usually aims. If it was hers, it was dark brown and not black, and it was well shaped. But I have no way of knowing for sure, since I didn't witness it. It probably could have been from Frankie, too, but I'm pretty sure Frankie usually buries. But, from what I've observed, Trix is the only one who consisently doesn't bury her poop.

This has turned into a crazy juggling act. Before her check up on March 1, all seemed well with Trix. Ever since then, all hell has broken loose. It's hard to say if it would have happened anyway, but I wonder how much of it was provoked with all this poking and prodding and meds and vetty stress....it is just so crazy.

We'll see. I'm 99% sure my vet doesn't work today, which means I'll get the BW results tomorrow....

Gonna try to squeeze a quick pre-work workout in (although my snugglebug just jumped on my lap :-D ). It will be a stressful day for me since I'm working the store by myself and won't be able to come home and check on Trix...

Thank you again, my wonderful LL family!

Amy
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 (Super-long...sorry!!)

Oh Amy. You are dealing with so much right now. I understand the kibble issue. When Tarragon had pancreatitis, we had to add hard treats to his wet food to get him to eat the regular food for the same two reasons. I know FF is not the best for CKD kitties but if it is what she will eat, so be it. We had to resort to cans of tuna at times as well.

I would hold off on the insulin, especially since she is not eating well. Big hugs for you.
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 (Super-long...sorry!!)

Hi Amy and Trixie,

Don't worry about writing a long post as it provides a lot of great information about Trixie and her vet visit. You really lucked out with your vet - what a caring, thorough vet :-D . Between the two of you, I know that Trixie is in superb hands.

If it's any consolation, I also have to spend most of my waking moments coaxing Pixie to eat, although I don't think his weight situation is as dire as Trixie's. Fortunately, I am able to easily do this because I'm a stay at home caregiver but I'm sure this must be very challenging for you. I'm sending you lots of hugs and both healing and appy vines for Trixie.

I look forward to reading about Trixie's BW results in the next few days. Have a great day at the store, Amy!

Anne
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 (Super-long...sorry!!)

Hi Amy ~O) ~O) ~O)

I agree with Melissa - you are juggling a lot right now, a lot of unknowns, alot of possibilities, a lot of for sures. I also agree with her comments on the choice of fuds. It was exactly the same with Mannie. I often fed foods that I knew were not ideal, but they were what he would eat. He too was a stage 4 CKD kitty, with severe anemia, long with everything else he had. Often I fed things that were high carb, higher than desired phos, just because he had to eat, so I had to prioritize. You can always add a binder if the phosphorous becomes an issue. oops - just saw you are doing that. We just never made it that far. I too would hold off on the insulin. I had to cut back on the amount of insulin I gave Mannie, because food was such an issue! I know these numbers aren't what you hope to see, but they still are good numbers. The fact that her pancreas is working is such a good thing.

Hugs to you. DH and to Trixie too. She seems happy, and that is so important. I hope you get back some good BW results.

Have a great day today. I hope all goes well.
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 (Super-long...sorry!!)

DH went home at lunchtime to check on her since I couldn't. She ate a little for him, but her appy is definitely a bit more off today than I care for...something is flaring. I wish I gave her cerenia before I left this morning, but "technically" she wasn't due until this evening.

Still, she was snuggly and outgoing this morning, and she is nowhere near where she was when all of this started, so she's not TOO far off....but you know how hypersensitive we LL beans are.....

4 more hours till I can leave.......
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 (Super-long...sorry!!)

:YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG: It's always such a balancing act! You are doing so much for Trixie and I think your vets appreciates you for that fact. Too often they see beans that can't be bothered to do anything extra. She likes working with someone like you! I'm not up to dat on the fuds Trixie has rejected. Have you tried Wild Calling chicken? It has even more calories/ounce than Wellness and is good for Phos too.

Hang in there, you do what you must do for her. If that means kibble, she gets kibble!
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 (Super-long...sorry!!)

I did try Wild Callings! chicken...she had mixed reviews about it - but then again, she has mixed reviews about everything these days, so maybe I'll bring that back tonight and be more persistent with it. I also tried Hound and Gatos chicken the other night...same thing, mixed review. That one is particularly stinky, and with her tummy being sensitive right now, I'm not sure if that's a good thing or it it's so stinky that the smell might actually upset her stomach.

I'm sure you're right, Ann. I know, for example, my vet has taken in 5 diabetics that the owners were just going to euhtanize because they didn't want to deal. She got them into remission and found them GOOD homes. It's crazy what people will do when their pets become "too much trouble".....so very sad.

3 hours....I cannot wait to get home......
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 (Super-long...sorry!!)

Sending Trix many healing/eating vines today.

Your vet IS awesome and very thorough and she's been checking her gums (I'm so glad they are pink!) I'm assuming she's also looked for ulcers in the mouth? Just trying to think of anything CKD related that could also cause her to not want to eat. And if there is any possibility that there are GI ulcers related to CKD, there is also a possibility of mouth ulcers. They might present even as little white spots with a red ring around it.

Please never apologize for a long post. It's just a sign of what an amazing mom you are!!!! Paws crossed for awesome lab results.
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 (Super-long...sorry!!)

Yup, she gave Trix's mouth a thorough once-over yesterday and fortunately no sign of oral ulcers (I get those...I know how brutally painful they are). She does think think this is most likely CKD-related. The frustrating thing is just two days ago, she was back to her old ways of trying to steal kibbles out of Petey's bowl! She's still feeling pretty feisty, but her appy has definitely declined in the last day or so. Hopefully this is just a glitch that we will get back under control very quickly, especially now that we have a little more info.

Depending on how Trix is feeling, I'm debating upping her pepcid to 5mg again tonight, just temporarily until we're over this hurdle. Tonight is also a cerenia night....
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 (Super-long...sorry!!)

Amy, sending loads of appy vines and prayers for Trixie and you. Sounds like you have an awesome Vet working with you. Paws crossed for the pepcid and cerenia to help Trix along. Hugs from me and Katie and Mags (GA).
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 (Super-long...sorry!!)

This condo needed to be long since you are dealing with the possibility of different things. ALso, others learn a lot how to deal with these situations. Many people here have cats who are older or are dealing with multiple issues.

Sending prayers for Trixie and wisdom for you and her vet. You are a wonderful caregiver.

I have added Weruva pawlickin chicken and funk in the trunk to Lovey's diet since she could use to lose some weight and I have been cutting back on fancy feast classic.
It is low calorie. The vet thought that nutrients were missing?
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 (Super-long...sorry!!)

Weruva is really low calorie. Max isn't crazy about it but I have tried mixing it with the ff classics as it is lower phosphorus. I was given a few cans of Wild Calling by a friend whose cat was on it. She felt quality control was not good and has stopped using it since she sent it to me. Her cat is on one of the novel proteins and they were often out of it. Max seems to like the Triple Delight but it contains lamb, chicken, and salmon and I don't want him to have salmon daily. I've only given him a small amount. When I finish that can or throw it out if it takes too long I will give Max the Cabin Fever which is chicken. It is not low phosphorus though. I think it is a higher quality protein than ff but who really knows what's in the food?

If you suspect an ulcer, you could try carafate. I personally hate giving it as it is chalky. I've read the pills aren't as good.

I'm hoping for a good appetite tonight and good labs.
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 PMBG 175 (Super-long...sor

I tried the Wild Callings Cabin Fever tonight...it was not a big hit, but I'm not sure if it's the fuds her her belly. She may need her meds to kick in. 5mg pepcid, 4mg cerenia, bp meds, and fluids are on board.

She snuggled with DH as soon as he got home, and she did hunt for stray kibbles in the family room before dinner, so while she's not 100%, she's not too far off, either...it's just this darn appy!

In fact, she just jumped on my lap and is headbutting and licking my arm, despite the fact that in the last hour I have poked her ear, shoved a gelcap down her throat, and just minutes ago jabbed her with the fluids harpoon. What a sweet girl cat_pet_icon .

I didn't have a very long discussion with my vetty about the Weruva, but she did just say she felt it wasn't a complete diet for kitties, and she's seen a number of kitties get sick while eating it. And, of course, Trix now falls into that category. So, I guess for some reason she thinks it really isn't nutritionally complete - maybe just because it IS so low in calories that most cats can't eat enough of it???

The food thing just makes my head spin more than anything else....

She did mention we may be adding carafate to the regimen...and she also mentioned that "most cats find it offensive." Yay...that sounds like fun. At least she doesn't sugar coat things. My poor girl.

Also...I mentioned earlier that we may be switching from Pepcid to Zantac. Actually, I was wrong...it's Prilosec that we might be switching to. Vetty thinks it may be a better option for Trix because it works on the cellular level of turning off the acid pumps, rather than getting rid of the acid once it forms like Pepcid dose. But, as I mentioned earlier, she wants to make sure it won't interact with her BP meds, which is possible since it does work on the cellular level.
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 PMBG 175 (Super-long...sor

Hi Amy,

Concerning the Carafate/sulcrafate, Jomo HATED it as well. It was my experience that giving the liquid worked better to heal the ulcers than the pills. I think part of the reason why is because Jomo DID have mouth ulcers, and probably had some in her esophagus as well. We can't see if Trixie has them down her throat but that would be a pain that would keep her from wanting to eat too.

My vet told me that the Carafate soothes and coats the ulcers, giving the stomach and lining of stomach, throat, and mouth, time to heal. That way when the acids start to go to work to break down the food in the stomach, the ulcers are protected from from becoming larger and actually start healing. The reason they often get the ulcers in the throat and mouth too is because when they vomit there is often bile in the vomit. Over time, even just a little bit of this coming up every few days, a few times a day, is going to eat a hole in the lining of throat and mouth.

It's very important to give the Pepcid and Carafate in the correct order and at the right time.
I can't remember now if it's give the Carafate first, wait the prescribed amount of time, and then give the Pepcid, what the prescribed amount of time, and then feed.

The cats don't like the Carafate and they will sometimes vomit it up within 15 minutes.. here's what I found with Jomo: The prescribed amount of time to wait BEFORE giving the Pepcid was too long. So, I looked at the clock and noted the time that I gave her the Carafate. Then, when she barfed it up, because she always did at first when she had the ulcer, I then knew how many minutes I had before I should feed her..

Here's an example: I give Jomo the Carafate at 6pm. She barfs some of it up at 6:20pm. (She never threw all of it up). I then offer her food after she has barfed, and if she won't eat it on her own I will syringe/force feed her at least 3 tbs of food. I would then immediately after I fed her give her the Pepcid in a pill pocket. If Jomo wouldn't eat it on her own, I would make sure that I got it down her throat and then syringed a tiny bit of food/water afterwards to make sure it was not stuck in her throat.

It is perfectly acceptable to give the Pepcid AFTER Trixie eats.

On the second day, I now know that Jomo's stomach is empty and needing food 20 minutes after I give her the Carafate. So, on the second day, I make sure to offer her food at 15 minutes AFTER the Carafate, and if she won't eat it on her own, I force feed her a little bit.

I think it took maybe three days to get Jomo used to eating about 15 minutes after the Carafate. They say don't feed for a long longer than that after taking the Carafate, but if your cat is barfing some of it up you definitely want to stop that.

The other thing is that Carafate can be constipating. I never had to use any laxatives with Jomo. She was ALWAYS regular with normal shaped poops, it was just sometimes that were jet black and I then knew that her stomach was bleeding, again. Anyway, from day one that I rescued her and knew that she had chronic P-titis I would always give her 1/8 to 1/4 tsp of squash instead of pumpkin in her food. Jomo HATED the pumpkin. She wouldn't eat the food if there was canned pumpkin in it. I swear, it was every single time that I tried it in her food. :lol: I'd always have to throw that food away and put the baby food squash into it.

I hope that this helps some if you are going to try the Carafate. You do need to give her the Carafate for at least 4 weeks at every single meal for there to be healing. It takes time for ulcers to heal.
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 PMBG 175 (Super-long...sor

I just wanted to add more prayers and appy vines for you and Trixie. You're a wonderful mombean and are doing your best for Trixie. :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 PMBG 175 (Super-long...sor

Amy, you are going through such a tough time with Trixie. When Simon isn't eating well, I also give him some kibble mixed in with his food and he will eat it up. It is SO important to keep her eating, no matter what it is. She needs to get over this hump and if eating kibble is going to do it, I say add some to her meals. You do not want her getting hepatic lipidosis (may be wrong spelling). Last year, I had to assist feed Simon for a few days when he had a pancreatitis issue and he finally started eating much better after a few days. He never stopped eating, only decreased the amount, but it was not enough. I tried all the low carb food, but nothing worked as well as the dry kibble mixed into the food along with the assist feeding. Sometimes, we just need to relax the rules a little bit, and do what is best for the kitties (probably not a tight LL thing, but when a kitty has CKD, it is a little different scenario). Anyway, you are doing a terrific job and your vet sounds really good. My vet also suggested the Prilosec for my Cleo and it did a good job with her stomach issues. Your head is probably spinning right now with all the information everyone is giving, including my own! You know Trixie best, so do what you think is best for her. ((((Amy))))
 
Re: 5/29 Trixie AMBG 149 "+3" 116 PMBG 175 (Super-long...sor

Hi Amy:

I'm not going to offer any advice, I just want to give some moral support. You are doing such a wonderful job and Trixie is so lucky to have you as her mamabean. I know how hard it is when there's something not right and you can't figure out what it is or how to fix it. Hang in there. Between you and that excellent vet you have, you are going to get to the bottom of this, and Trixie will continue to improve.

Sending appy and healing vines and hugs! :YMHUG: :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
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