5/26 Harley 71 +6.5, 120 +7

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Harley and Pattie

Harley and Pattie

Member Since 2010
OK, patience does pay off...Harley hit blue last night and has stayed that way until this AM. Hopefully he will continue with this ride...or even turn green.

Have a good day

Pattie

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Re: 5/26 Harley AMPS 197

Hi guys, yeah, every now and then patience does pay off .. such sweet looking numbers for harley, hope they last all day for you! have a great day guys!
 
Re: 5/26 Harley AMPS 197

Hi Patty!

Im making a pot full of patience later! will save u some! Lol!
Awesome start to the day for Harley!
 
Re: 5/26 Harley AMPS 197

Beautiful start to the day, Pattie! :-D It's tough to be patient when you keep seeing high numbers. I curious to see where he will head from that AMPS, will you be able to get any spot checks today?
 
Re: 5/26 Harley AMPS 197

Very nice AMPS today for Harley...hope he sees some green!!! I have several set of patience pants should you need them in the future....I am happy to loan to all who need them. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Re: 5/26 Harley +5/340, +10/315 - frustrated

So, here is my frustration....

With a lower dose (and 5u is a lower dose for Harley and IAA), he does not maintain the low numbers like he has with the higher dose. It seems like he bounces all over the place and I want to achieve steady (or near steady numbers). Today, the going from 197 to the 340 should not be happening and I don't think the 340 is a bounce.

I hope the experts will weigh in on this because (as you know) patience is not a strong point of mine and my first impulse is to raise his insulin level, especially with the potential of the antibodies building up.

Pattie
 
Re: 5/26 Harley +5/340, +10/315 - frustrated

pattie, i'm sorry I'm on the run and won't be back for a few hours, but saw your question...

you can't really count the last 3 days following the symptomatic hypo as far as knowing what this dose can do because they were "bounce days". we had to wait for those counterregulatory hormones to clear. however, he has now cleared the bounce and he's come down into the blues. normally, i might suggest holding the dose for a few more cycles, but because harley is an IAA kitty i'd increase by 0.25u tonight. i wouldn't increase any more than that.

fwiw, just my thoughts...



edited to add: if harley significantly slides into a lower pmps number, i would hold the dose for now.
 
Re: 5/26 Harley +5/340, +10/315 - frustrated

Good Luck, Pattie. Frustration (pulling hair out) and Patience, are all part of the sugar dance. You ARE doing a great job!
 
Re: 5/26 Harley PMPS 342

Harley ended the day in the pink. I did go up to 5.25 tonight...hopefully there will be a drop in bg...but not too far.

Have a good evening.

Pattie
 
Re: 5/26 Harley PMPS 342, +4/30

Well, Harley is presently at 30. Gave some HC and will test in 15.

Here is a puzzle. What dose is between 5+.25 and 5.0? I gave the 5.25 tonight and WOW. I know there is some wonkiness but this is really something.

Pattie
 
Re: 5/26 Harley PMPS 342, +4/30

wow! good catch! see you in 15 minutes...

about the dose: i think harley is letting us know we didn't give him enough time on the 5u dose. :roll:
 
Re: 5/26 Harley +4.5/30, 4.75/39

better. see you in another 15.
after we get his numbers up higher we need to talk about the dose...
 
Re: 5/26 Harley +4.5/30, 4.75/39

about the dose...

this drop isn't from the the increased dose tonight. what we're seeing is from the 5u dose (remember the shed).
what this tells me is we underestimated how far over dose harley is. i see three possible solutions.

for your consideration:

  • consider tonight a reduction earning cycle based on the 5u dose. reduce to 4.75u. again, monitor carefully in case he remains over dose at 4.75 units.
  • drop the dose to 4u bid. this could give you a little cushion. you could work the dose up if necessary. although, it's *possible* he may continue to earning reductions from this dose.
  • drop the dose to 5u and monitor carefully to catch the drop. it'll happen... just as it did tonight. when it does, take the reduction.



remember, no matter which way you want to go with this... harley will bounce from these low numbers tonight. it can take as long as 72 hours for the bounce to clear. the "bounce days" cannot be used to evaluate the dose. however, you'll have to remain vigilant about testing for ketones since harley is ketone prone. you can also use R to help cover the bounce.

what do you think?
 
Re: 5/26 Harley 41 +5, 39, +5.15

pattie, he's earned a reduction. he has nothing to prove. you can put a little karo in his hc to bump him up a little more.
 
Re: 5/26 Harley 41 +5, 39, +5.15

about the dose...I would be more comfortable in going back to the 5u and riding out the bounce. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the fact that this is from the 5u from this AM so going back to the 5u and moving forward is better to me.

At this point, I would never go to the 4u. Harley has been so prone to ketones in the past that I see reducing the dose a full unit would spell trouble for him.

5u is fine with me.

My worry is (and always has been) is that being in the 300's for a long time could become troublesome for the kidneys. That may be why I want the numbers below that.

Pattie
 
Re: 5/26 Harley 41 +5, 39, +5.15

Karo it is. I will give it now. I know he has nothing to prove and I am trying to get him numbers up.

pattie
 
Re: 5/26 Harley 41 +5, 39, +5.15

i do understand wanting to stay under renal threshold. alex has kidney issues, too.

lantus and lev are depot insulins. this means it takes at least 3 days to see the full effect of the dose. the action is cumulative. that's how we know one shot of an increased dose is not going to produce what you're seeing tonight. tonight's action is the 5u dose talking. the 5.25u dose has yet to build to it's full potential.

something else to throw in here...
too much insulin can result in high numbers just as not enough insulin can. too much insulin can set the kitty up in a never ending pattern... drop low, bounce high, drop low, bounce high, and so on. kind of like what we can see on harley's spreadsheet. it was happening every 2 - 3 days.
 
Re: 5/26 Harley 41 +5, 39, +5.15

I know what you are talking about Jill. The vet said the same thing about the highs and lows when Harley was on 10u. She dropped him to 5u and he developed ketones (during his first year).

I am very comfortable with going back to the 5u beginning tomorrow AM and riding out the bounce.
 
Re: 5/26 Harley 41 +5, 39, +5.15

it's your decision. i just wanted to lay out your options as i see them.
once the bounce clears, watch for the drop.

i have to test and feed, but libby is here to keep you company.
 
Re: 5/26 Harley 41 +5, 39 +5.15, 75 +5.75

Me too - throwing more hugs and vines, getting out of the way, and saying I am so glad Jill is here! :YMHUG:
 
Re: 5/26 Harley 41 +5, 39 +5.15, 75 +5.75

((((Pattie)))) you're in a tough spot. Harley is in a very different place dose-wise than he was a year ago. I fully agree with Jill that tonight's numbers are coming off the 5 unit dose more than the 5.25. Dropping to 30 this early in the cycle is a big clue that Harley still might be over dose, even at 5 units.

There was another cat not long ago that was higher dose but had not been tested for acro or IAA. When that cat started flying down the dosing ladder, I remember Jojo telling me to suggest trying a big reduction (she suggested moving to half of the previous dose). She said if the cat was acro or IAA he might be ok with that big a reduction and might even keep earning reductions from there. He did. A "regular" diabetic cat would probably lose all their momentum from such a big reduction, but for an IAA that might be what was needed. If the antibodies were what was making him need a big dose, and the antibodies are now gone, then he might not need a dose anywhere near his previous dose. Does that make sense at all?

You have to balance ketones too, which makes it harder. The good thing is that R can help you get through the periods of higher numbers.
 
Re: 5/26 Harley 41 +5, 39 +5.15, 75 +5.75

there's a nice rise! let's see if he can stay up there.
ok, harley, time to surf the 70s so mamabean can go to bed.
 
Re: 5/26 Harley 41 +5, 39 +5.15, 75 +5.75

Just been watching....good job Pattie. Just offering support....thinking of you.
 
Re: 5/26 Harley 41 +5, 39 +5.15, 75 +5.75

Libby and Lucy said:
((((Pattie)))) A "regular" diabetic cat would probably lose all their momentum from such a big reduction, but for an IAA that might be what was needed. If the antibodies were what was making him need a big dose, and the antibodies are now gone, then he might not need a dose anywhere near his previous dose. Does that make sense at all?

You have to balance ketones too, which makes it harder. The good thing is that R can help you get through the periods of higher numbers.
Click to expand...

The antibody thing makes sense and I have actually thought about that as Harley's dose has been reduced. In the past, I have used the R to get rid of the ketones so, I really should not be worried (easier said than done).
Still, going to 4u is not for me right now. I would be comfortable with the 4.75 beginning tomorrow.

You all will just need to keep telling me about patience.

Pattie
 
Re: 5/26 Harley 71 +6.5

sounds good. I hope he'll stay at a reasonable number and also won't bounce too high. I think 4.75 is a good move, even if he is high in the morning.

It's hard to wrap your mind around what antibodies can do. I may have mentioned that I have an autoimmune disease (totally different disease, but still caused by antibodies). My antibodies were high but once I started meds they went under control quickly. I had to drop my dose of medication from 20mg to 15mg to 5mg and now 2.5mg in a fairly short time - once the antibodies started to abate, all of a sudden the medication I previously needed was way too much for me. I think it is sort of the same thing that could be happening here.
 
It is bedtime. He is now 120 and I know in 2 hours will be higher. Will stick with the 4.75u starting tomorrow.

Thanks Jill & Libby.

Pattie
 
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