5/24 Aurora AMPS 131 +9 119 PMPS 114 +2 86, +3 78 | Feline Diabetes Message Board - FDMB

5/24 Aurora AMPS 131 +9 119 PMPS 114 +2 86, +3 78

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Nicole Z

Nicole Z

Member since 2017
Yesterday
morning! I posted last night that we skipped her PM shot based on her low number but I didn't see any replies. I guess we're really struggling as far as what is a good low number where you should skip the shot? She seems to really drop and at PMPS she was 79, I figured no way should we shoot so I made the call to skip. I did give the micro shot this morning since she was a little higher at 131.

Another crazy day for me, won't be on the board after this post.
Hope to see Aurora's buddies in the lagoon today!
 
Aurora is looking good! And skipped shots are barely noticeable!
Are you feeding a +9? +9 meals or snacks sometimes help to lower the PS numbers. Do you have an auto feeder that you could set up overnight to give her a +9 snack?
 
Judy and Boomer said:
Aurora is looking good! And skipped shots are barely noticeable!
Are you feeding a +9? +9 meals or snacks sometimes help to lower the PS numbers. Do you have an auto feeder that you could set up overnight to give her a +9 snack?
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I leave food out at night and typically in the morning, there is still some left on the plate. Would an auto feeder make any difference if there is already food available all night? Hubby and I are still really struggling to know at which low number do we not give a shot at all? Like last night, she was really low already and I figured giving the .25 would just cause problems and constant checking all night long so we skipped.
 
If she's green and you can monitor, why aren't you shooting those PM shots? The ideal cycle on TR is all green and the motto is shoot low to stay low. If you shoot green, often you get a very flat cycle. Just to give you a little more motivation, the spreadsheet of a cat ready for an OTJ trial is all green. Giving that little bit more insulin support may be all she needs. To answer what is the no shoot number, we don't shoot below 50.

Aurora may or may not be ready for that +8-9 snack yet. That's something we suggest for kitties that are on very small doses with a sputtering pancreas. I would first try to shoot twice a day, and see if that brings down the AMPS.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
If she's green and you can monitor, why aren't you shooting those PM shots? The ideal cycle on TR is all green and the motto is shoot low to stay low. If you shoot green, often you get a very flat cycle. Just to give you a little more motivation, the spreadsheet of a cat ready for an OTJ trial is all green. Giving that little bit more insulin support may be all she needs. To answer what is the no shoot number, we don't shoot below 50.

Aurora may or may not be ready for that +8-9 snack yet. That's something we suggest for kitties that are on very small doses with a sputtering pancreas. I would first try to shoot twice a day, and see if that brings down the AMPS.
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I guess we're not shooting at night because I don't want to see her go below 50 and have to end up having a pajama party I work full time I can't be up till midnight constantly checking. I can try tonight I guess and hope it doesn't cause an all nighter
 
Also, what am I supposed to do if I get something between 70-95 in the morning when we have to go to work for the day? Nobody home to check on her until we are home from work.
 
I have an idea, but I need the pros to weigh on this idea. If you are nervous about shooting 0.25u BID, would it work if you try 0.1u BID and see if it keeps Aurora safe and surfing while you are at work?
 
Mandy & Rex said:
I have an idea, but I need the pros to weigh on this idea. If you are nervous about shooting 0.25u BID, would it work if you try 0.1u BID and see if it keeps Aurora safe and surfing while you are at work?
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Oh Gosh Mandy, I already feel like it's impossible getting the .25 dose....
 
I was just reading another post that @Jill & Alex (GA) provided feedback saying: "No, it's not counterproductive. The quicker you can get kitty into greens the faster his body will get used to them and he'll end up spending more time in what we call "healing numbers" (numbers in the 50 - 120 range). The whole idea behind practicing tight regulation is to bring kitty's BG numbers down as quickly as safely possible. Even if the OTJ status is never achieved, kitty is residing in normal numbers... less chance of damage to other organs and generally, just a healthier place to be."
So my question is with Aurora, as long as any of her numbers are under 120 - this is a good thing - she's in a safe number. I think our hesitation is that say when she was a 71 last night, if we were to shoot Aurora typically seems to have a pretty good drop at +3, she's shown us many times after shooting that she can have a 40 point drop - I'm just scared if I give the micro dose .25 that it will take her down to a 40 and then we're in all out panic mode trying to carb her up. If 71 is "technically" a really good number and she's in the lagoon, why not just leave her alone and skip the shot completely? I'm just still very unclear why it's good to continue to give a micro dose of insulin when she's in the lagoon already at PMPS - I just feel if she goes lower, and I have to steer with food, what was the point of shooting if I'm just giving food to get her back up to the number she was originally at before I even shot? I'm really just trying to learn - not trying to buck the system - I just can't get this right in my mind....
 
Nicole Z said:
Also, what am I supposed to do if I get something between 70-95 in the morning when we have to go to work for the day? Nobody home to check on her until we are home from work.
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Right now you leave her for the day with a full shot and starting at 130. How do you keep her safe those days? Do you have an autofeeder? As I said, they tend to drop less if you start lower. I loved giving Neko insulin in the 80's, that was her sweet spot. Often she'd move no more than 10 points the entire cycle. I dunno, if my cat dropped quickly at +3, I'd rather give insulin at night when I can monitor and possibly skip during the day. The weekend is coming up, you'll be able to gather more data on what happens when you shoot the full dose into lower numbers. That data will help you decide what to do during the week to keep her safe.

Keeping kitties on insulin as long as safely possible gives the healing pancreas support that seems to correspond with strong remissions. Once Aurora goes off insulin, we want her to stay there.
 
Nicole Z said:
I was just reading another post that @Jill & Alex (GA) provided feedback saying: "No, it's not counterproductive. The quicker you can get kitty into greens the faster his body will get used to them and he'll end up spending more time in what we call "healing numbers" (numbers in the 50 - 120 range). The whole idea behind practicing tight regulation is to bring kitty's BG numbers down as quickly as safely possible. Even if the OTJ status is never achieved, kitty is residing in normal numbers... less chance of damage to other organs and generally, just a healthier place to be."
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http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/threads/whats-up-with-these-highs-and-lows.178298/#post-1968579
Unfortunately, this quote has been taken out of context.
I have to ask, what is your goal... OTJ or for Aurora to remain on a tiny dose of insulin?
Nicole Z said:
I think our hesitation is that say when she was a 71 last night, if we were to shoot Aurora typically seems to have a pretty good drop at +3, she's shown us many times after shooting that she can have a 40 point drop - I'm just scared if I give the micro dose .25 that it will take her down to a 40 and then we're in all out panic mode trying to carb her up.
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Something that we probably don't say often enough: Guiding a cat into OTJ status involves a lot of hard work. It's not easy on the caregivers, BUT it's so worth it! :D
Nicole Z said:
If 71 is "technically" a really good number and she's in the lagoon, why not just leave her alone and skip the shot completely? I'm just still very unclear why it's good to continue to give a micro dose of insulin when she's in the lagoon already at PMPS - I just feel if she goes lower, and I have to steer with food, what was the point of shooting if I'm just giving food to get her back up to the number she was originally at before I even shot?
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The whole point is to give her support for as long as possible to give her the best possible shot at a long and strong remission. It works. We know it works because we've seen what happens when caregivers jump the gun... kitty is back here in a few weeks or months. We love having you, but we sure don't want you to have to come back! Aurora is soooooooooooo close. Those blue numbers need to come down though. You pretty much want to see all green cycles prior to going OTJ.
Nicole Z said:
Also, what am I supposed to do if I get something between 70-95 in the morning when we have to go to work for the day? Nobody home to check on her until we are home from work.
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No one available for monitoring? Safety comes first. Skip the shot or reduce the dose if you have a timed feeder.
Wendy&Neko said:
As I said, they tend to drop less if you start lower. I loved giving Neko insulin in the 80's, that was her sweet spot.
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Absolutely! 50s was Alex's sweet spot. Take a look at Alex's 2009 spreadsheet for a quick look at what it means and what happens when shooting low to stay low.
Wendy&Neko said:
Keeping kitties on insulin as long as safely possible gives the healing pancreas support that seems to correspond with strong remissions. Once Aurora goes off insulin, we want her to stay there.
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Amen. :)





 
Aurora is really close, Nicole. Yes, PJ parties are part of it but with the little bit of insulin she is getting now, you won't have to go through too many of the PJ parties. Remember the other day I said :

Bobbie And Bubba said:
Ok Aurora , let's step up the numbers to mostly green numbers so you can this party going!
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Well, that is what I meant. Let's get her done! LOL
 
Thank you all for the replies. I'm really not trying to be difficult but we do work full time jobs. I'm not home during the day to check numbers. I leave out plenty of food for them before I leave for the day so I really feel confident that nobody is going hungry while we're at work. The girls have free run of the house and it's not possible to start segregating Aurora separately in another room with an auto feeder - they both need to come and go as they please so I'm not sold that an auto feeder will be of any help since more times than not I come home and there is still some food on the plate so there is something out if needed. I just don't get the concept of if she has a low number at pre shot already, why give insulin that is going to drive the number into a situation where we are freaking out giving HC food just to get her back up to say 70 where we started? I'm up early and have to be sharp for work I can't do pajama parties often during the week if at all - I don't know where the happy medium is here - I feel like Aurora is in a good situation, her numbers have drastically improved and I'll keep up with what we're doing but like I said, if I do shoot low and she repeatedly drops lower than a 50, it's going to be hard for me to continue and be stressed out in panic mode trying to get her up to a better safer number before going to bed. This certainly isn't easy....
 
Until you try it, you don't know that Aurora will drop below 50 when you give insulin at a lower number. Lantus is much better at keeping numbers low.
 
I was thinking of the 0.10 dose myself yesterday when looking at her spreadsheet. Do you have a 3 day weekend coming up? How about trying to take advantage of that? If you could shoot Friday night through Monday and see what she does with the cycles, that would help you to feel better come Monday night when you have to sleep again for work. I know what it's like needing sleep.
 
I
Dyana said:
I was thinking of the 0.10 dose myself yesterday when looking at her spreadsheet. Do you have a 3 day weekend coming up? How about trying to take advantage of that? If you could shoot Friday night through Monday and see what she does with the cycles, that would help you to feel better come Monday night when you have to sleep again for work. I know what it's like needing sleep.
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I like the idea of 0.10 dose and maybe you will be able to shoot two doses in a 24 hour period which is desirable.
 
01unit-1.jpg

Here's a picture of the 0.1 unit. Do you think you can manage that?
 
Mandy & Rex said:
View attachment 28548
Here's a picture of the 0.1 unit. Do you think you can manage that?
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Here's the thing, I am using a 30 unit short needle syringe. I can totally see the 1 unit line and the 1/2 unit line. I really am struggling already at the .25 mark and even then I feel like I'm guessing. I can't say with any assurance even trying with a calipers if I could swing a 0.1 measurement.
@Dyana yes, we have a long weekend coming up. I will be home Friday working remote and home Saturday ,sunday and Monday. I'm happy to do more testing during the day. I just want to be sure that Aurora is okay when we end up going back to work.
 
Nicole Z said:
@Dyana yes, we have a long weekend coming up. I will be home Friday working remote and home Saturday ,sunday and Monday. I'm happy to do more testing during the day. I just want to be sure that Aurora is okay when we end up going back to work.
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Good, that's 4 days you can test and see where she goes when you give the insulin while in green numbers. Remember, if you get a PS that is under 50 or what you are comfortable shooting, Don't Feed and stall and retest in about 30 minutes. I think you'll do fine. You've come so far.
 
Dyana said:
Good, that's 4 days you can test and see where she goes when you give the insulin while in green numbers. Remember, if you get a PS that is under 50 or what you are comfortable shooting, Don't Feed and stall and retest in about 30 minutes. I think you'll do fine. You've come so far.
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I'll do my best
 
Maybe take a big drink of water before bed. Then if you have to get up in the middle of the night, a quick test.
 
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