5/23 Rhinog AMPS 468

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Ruth and Rhinog

Ruth and Rhinog

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Well we start Lantus today and to celebrate Rhinog has thrown me a massive number! :shock:

What's going on there? It looks like a rebound number or is it just the pred? Or could it be something to do with the fact that he vomited sometime during the night?

Anyway, decided to be cautious and have only given 0.25 units.

Ruth
 
Nowt so fickle as kitties :lol:

No bad weather? change in household routine? visitors?
Naughty neighbour leaving the kitty crack outside? (dry)

If you were nervous as well he may have picked up on that.

Can see your reasoning on the .25u. .5u may have been o.k too.
You may see an initial good response, you may not. Good old ECID (Every cat is different). The Lantus will now need to build up in his system.
Get a +2 and you'll have an idea where he is heading.

And if your happier, sticking with the .25u is fine.
Can't believe how warm UK is!! We're only around the 20 mark-London is going to hit 28 today I believe! (Mind you going cold from tomorrow)
Have a lovely Sunday :mrgreen:
 
Don't know where that red came from. Could be rebound (but I don't think so) vomitting certainly can cause stress and effect BG, and predison certainly can be a big factor. Of course it is just one number so it may mean nothing at all. more important is to see where it goes and what patterns develop.

I can understand your wanting to be cautious, given the response (or lack of significant response) to the dose of .4U Caninsulin and the addition of 5 mg prednisone (it is 2.5mg twice a day right?) I think the .5U would have been ok. Since you are going to be getting a few tests in during the next few cycles, I would recommend especially if the numbers are remaining higher that you should try to test the urine for ketones (which can develop quickly in some cats especially with BG high like this morning). Depending on how the numbers go in the next 2-3 days, if you don't see an overall lowering of the BG I would not allow the BG to stay at this level for very long and would move the dose up to .5U sooner rather than risk ketones or other complications, as long as you are testing regularly you should be safe. Rhinog just started Prednisone (is that where it is mentioned on the SS 5/15 the day you began?) If so it looks like the BG was before the prednisone already high (diabetic range) and could have been so for a while before you tested. Did you test occasionally during the year Rhinog was OTJ? I'm thinking the prednisone is going to affect the BG (making it higher than it would be from "just" diabetes alone)and typically cats on steroids require more insulin than they would without. I think the effect of the prednisone is what you seeing now.

Just a thought here.....there are some other cats who for one reason or another need steroids and I recall some discussion about some particular forms of cortisone being less likely to affect BG. You might want to ask your vet about it, or post on the health forum and ask if anyone has any information/experience with such.
 
Re: 5/23 Rhinog AMPS 468 +2 248

I've updated Rhinog's spreadsheet to include the number we took before his dabble with dry food and when he started the pred.

I really do think the pred is his major issue. My neighbour has taken away the dry food, so that's not an issue now.
Last time round he was very predictable and his numbers came down beautifully.

I'll start testing for ketones and look into cortisone.

thanks

Ruth
 
Ah I see, so you started pred about a month ago, and looks like before that the numbers were starting to creep up a little. Now it looks like they are still rising. Steroids are such a bummer (I know I take them myself and have for several years) but they are also a life saver and sometimes are a nessissary evil, so we have to work around them.

Glad your neighbor was accomadating about the dry food :-D

His numbers will come down again with the Lantus, it may take a little bit and we don't need to rush to much. As long as you are keeping an eye on it and checking for ketones a few high numbers won't be detrimental. I don't want you feel I was pushing you to a higher dose, I just wanted you to know that you will probably need to raise the dose and that with all those thing combined (Lantus being less potent, being able to acheive lower numbers with Lantus than you had on Vetsulin, and the effect of the pred) a higher dose (or at least equivilent) to the .4U Caninsulin will likely be required. So no stress about upping the dose right now, just think it's best (normally we wait several days before increasing) but should the numbers remain quite high or if ketones test positive at any time a change will need to be made sooner rather than later. ;-) And it would still be a very low dose, as long as you are testing you'll be safe.

Just another thought I had.....You were using Caninsulin a year ago when Rhinog got OTJ? When you began with the Caninsulin again last week, was that a fresh bottle?(unopened and still within the expiration date?) Caninsulin doesn't last long once the vial has been "violated" :-D it is usable for about 28 days and then it is toast. I used it as well at first and had the 2,5ml bottles which was ok because at 1-2.5U BID a little bottle only lasted 2 weeks or so. If you used a bottle (even unopened) that might be past the exiration date then it could be that the insulin had no effect on the BG (so it wouldn't matter if you gave .4U or 40U) you wouldn't see much results. If the insulin was good, then the .4U was not enough and for all those other reasons was why I had suggested .5U Lantus yesterday.
 
No worries.

He seems to be having a yellow day so far which I'm very pleased with. I agree, I'm sure his dose will need increasing but we'll take it slow for now, especially if he's going to stay yellow! :smile:

The caninsulin was a brand new vial so can't blame that. It's got to be the pred. But it's working well on the tumour. Without it he probably wouldn't be here!

Despite the unusally hot weather here Rhinog is full on life. He's just supplemented his diet with a bird! He's numbers certainly aren't worrying him.

Ruth
 
Like Monique suggested, I wouldn't get overly concerned about one number, especially since it looks like Rhinog has brought the number down quite nicely. (If you get a number that seems out of the ordinary, you might want to re-test immediately. It could be a meter error.)

Personally, I'm glad you started out conservatively. I think it's much easier to raise a dose than to be panicking when you see lower numbers and have to quickly reduce. That said, if you've not already stocked up, please make sure you have some high carb (HC) food in the house. All of us keep a "hypo kit" stocked, the most important item (IMHO) being the HC food that can help to steer numbers.

Also, remember that it will take a few days for Lantus to create a depot, or shed. This means that not all of the Lantus that you're shooting is available for use. You'll most likely see numbers begin to respond to the insulin even more after 3 - 5 days. Lantus requires patience.
 
Start low and go slow is what I was told in the beginning.
Good luck with the Lantus and hope for continued lowering numbers.
 
WElcome to lantus land and hope Rhinog feels well real soon! Sienne always tells me, dont be concerned with One Number--It's true, and lantus is such a great insulin, you maybe quite pleased..Let's see how the day goes, can you monitor Rhinog today? like +3, and +6?
Lantus does take a few cycles to get into cat's system, like 6 cycles would be 3 days.. Paws & fingers crossed for a good day for you both!
 
Welcome to you and Rhinog! Glad you are getting good input from some of the more experienced Beans on the forum. Hope you will see wonderful results ....
(we started out on Vetsulin as well...6 weeks of time down the tube (IMHO)...now on Levemir...hopefully, you will be happy with the action of longer duration Lantus!)
Looking forward to your posts each day and watching Rhinog's progression! So glad you are here!! :-D
 
Ruth,

off the top of my head, Kitekat is a more MC food-think it's 14%
I used another Felix one for 25% but don't know what it is in English-offen schmaus I think was the spelling.

Do you know how to work out the approximate carbs? (I used to love standing in the aisle with my calculator-the looks! :lol: )
 
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