5/23 Eegie AMPS=430;+3.5=343;+8.5=303;PMPS=300

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sgans and Eegie - GA

Sgans and Eegie - GA

Member Since 2015
So, no shot last night (he was at 135 pm pre-shot) - high numbers today. But he's more energetic - so of course, I think it was a partial fur shot (I swear - SOME got in) because he moved unexpectedly during the shot and I think it went through. I SUCK!!!
He's more active today - by far, he pooped and it was better than liquid, he peed, but he still won't eat. He got his appetite stim - I made bone broth (which I'm going to syringe in a bit), I made salmon broth and boiled some salmon (usually steamed). Maybe THAT'll get him to eat! Otherwise, I need to syringe some Viyo and bone broth. DANG!!!!
Link to yesterday
 
Well, he's not completely uninterested in eating. I tried all of the above - nothing - had to syringe a few times. Then tried a saucer of 2% milk (he does okay with milk) and he drank a little over a tablespoon's worth. But then, I tried enticing him to his food with bacon. He never says no to bacon... until now. Wouldn't touch it. Gave me his angry purr to tell me "Leave me alone, Mommy!"

WANT him to eat, dangit!!!
 
@julie & punkin (ga) - After yesterday's shots AND Pepcid, I have to imagine it's not upset stomach. We checked and the enema from a couple of days ago seems to have cleared his bowels AND his colon, so nothing there stopping him. His energy was better earlier in the day, but he's lying around now. more incontinent too. His BUN was high (as it's been for a while), but creatinine was in normal range - but the doc thinks that's maybe 'cause he didn't eat, and had no proteins for the creatinine to build up. His kidneys have been weak for some time - but we're already including that in his treatments - doing what would be done for that.

But the fact that he drank MILK! If he didn't want anything, that would be one thing.... if he drinks milk, that's a different thing!

I'm still syringing him every few hours - just enough to keep him pissed off at me, it seems...

UGH!!!!

So, anybody know a good recipe with milk? :confused:
 
I've never given a cat milk, so not me.

You've probably seen the post, but i'll mention it just in case you haven't - in the New to the Group sticky, near the bottom in the section of single topic links, there is a post on stimulating a kitty's appetite. It's got lots of good tips in it.
 
I wonder if he is having a negative reaction to the Convenia. I have no first hand experience, but in doing a quick search I do see it can cause inappetance and all the other not-so-wonderful GI side effects any AB can cause. I've been through the inappetance with Trix (pancreatitis in her case), so I know how brutally stressful it is :bighug::bighug::bighug:. I wonder if he is nauseated and if ondansetron in addition to the cerenia would help...just something to possibly ask the vet about. I'm sorry you have to syringe feed (been there, done that too!), but definitely better safe than sorry...you don't want to toss hepatic lipidosis into the mix, too.

Sending prayers that he decides to eat on his own very, very soon! AND...you do not suck! You are doing an awesome job with a complicated kitty!!
 
adding lots of appy vines....
wow... turning down bacon... mine usually will go for that too....

the one that I've watched for many years...is fried chicken.... obviously peel off the fried part.... but most kitties love that meat.
that's all I've got to add to the list....


sending more and more appy vines.... just keeping a couple for mine....o_O
 
@julie & punkin (ga) - I saw that link yesterday (about the covenia) AFTER getting the shot! I wish I'd known beforehand, but @Amy&TrixieCat the reason for the shot was the blood test - because I'd brought him in for utter inappetance, so the shot's not causing it, although it may be exacerbating it. I'd brought him in because after my being out for several hours, he hadn't budged, hadn't peed, hadn't pooped, nothing - so after blood tests, we did the cerenia and covenia.
@julie & punkin (ga) I have that Where... link bookmarked now - thank you! I'd never seen it before!
@rhiannon and shadow I'd be REALLY scared, but with all that, he still doesn't decline milk!!! There's got to be a will to eat, I just need to figure out WHAT he'll eat, I guess....
BTW - he hates being syringed, but when I'm syringing the turkey bone broth, he seems to like that - won't drink it on his own, but seems to enjoy those syringes! Go figure...
 
Have you ever tried A/D? It's high carb, but it's important that you get food into him or you'll end up fighting fatty liver too

It's also creamy enough to use in syringe feedings
 
He hated AD, @Chris & China I've been syringing baby food, along with kefir (he NEEDS probiotics with the freakin' Covenia, so there's protein in that too. Today, he also got a full days worth of viyo recuperation and probably over 1/4 cup of the turkey bone broth. I suppose I can try the AD, but he didn't do well on it early on in hos ibd (we tried a few Px diets).

If he won't eat on his own tomorrow, I'm going to put his raw in the baby folder, and try to get that to go down. Hate the damned gristle though.

I'll never let him go without eating. With the IBD, it seems hepatic lipidosis was the first thing I was warned about. Thank you, for the idea though.

Also, I was rubbing his belly, and despite the doc saying the colon is empty, it still seems swollen. Did some massage, and restarted docusate sodium so maybe it softens up.

Doc's out till Tuesday, so I guess I'm the vet for a few days.

Also, upping the amitryptaline, which helped his appetite, in the past.

Hoping for a better tomorrow. Thank you.
 
BTW, @Amy&TrixieCat - vet's out until Tuesday. Can you tell me about ondansetron? I'll look it up, but the explanations are so often too simple or too chemist-y.
OH! I did look it up and it was pretty clear...

Can I ask why you'd use both the cerenia and ondansetron? Or do you use it as a stronger version of Pepcid (which is why we went with cerenia).

The covenia.... at least I'm not seeming to see the worst of the possible effects in him yet - after reading, it scared me - but it's in him and no way to get it out.....
 
Sgans said:
BTW, @Amy&TrixieCat - vet's out until Tuesday. Can you tell me about ondansetron? I'll look it up, but the explanations are so often too simple or too chemist-y.
OH! I did look it up and it was pretty clear...

Can I ask why you'd use both the cerenia and ondansetron? Or do you use it as a stronger version of Pepcid (which is why we went with cerenia).

The covenia.... at least I'm not seeming to see the worst of the possible effects in him yet - after reading, it scared me - but it's in him and no way to get it out.....
Click to expand...


ECID (every cat is different)...but ondansetron is geared more towards actual nausea, cerenia is geared more towards actual vomiting as well as nausea (but more towards the vomiting), and pepcid is geared towards stomach acid, which can help, but if a cat is truly nauseated pepcid isn't the right med. But, as I said, ECID...for Trix, ondansetron didn't seem to do much, but the cerenia works well. She (supposedly) has advanced CKD so she gets cerenia every 36 hours, as well as pepcid twice a day and this works very well for her - it took some trial and error to reach this conclusion. There are other folks here who give both cerenia and ondansetron because that is what works for their kitty. Since Eegie seems to be in an "extreme" situation with how he's feeling, it could be worth investigating if using a combination of these meds would help him feel and eat better.

I do hope he's better this evening...it sounded like he was feeling more like himself this morning!
 
@Amy&TrixieCat , thank you for the explanation. Pepcid was definitely the right move he did have acid. But I had no idea this other thing was there for nausea. Of course I can't talk to the doc till Tuesday but I'm going to ask him about it. It is definitely an extreme situation. Although, he is keeping his food down (KNOCK WOOD) when I give it to him!
 
@rhiannon and shadow , the kidneys turned out to not be masses, but just small stones, benign opacities in the X-rays, per the oncologist. Eegie's lung tumor was confirmed late February. X-ray. Per the oncologist, it's primary lung cancer. He was given a prognosis of 4-6 months without chemo, and 8-12 with chemo (then, they expect the tumor will likely start to grow again. We're not putting him through that, 5 months of stressful treatment for a few months of the tumor not growing.

My goal is to keep him as well and happy as possible, until the cancer takes him. If that's at all possible.
 
Oh! I'm so sorry @rhiannon and shadow ! It's terrible, isn't it?

For us, the X-Ray had been for his intestines for his IBD. in January, it was a small airy opacity, that radiology said "could be" neoplastic. In February, it took on edges, so I went to see an oncologist. She said she could do the ultrasound, but if we were doing that, she'd suggest putting that money into the first round of chemo. They can't biopsy in that area, so even an ultrasound wouldn't be certain what "type" of cencer it was. We watched a month later, and it had grown a little over 25%, which is their threshold as to whether they consider it stable or growing.

Eegie's an old boy with all sorts of other issues. Oncologist wanted us to get the diabetes under control before we even started treatment (I love this woman, she is so clearly about Eegie's welfare over making money, although she's still very expensive, she wants to see it spent only when it's really a benefit).

Her plan, if successful and went the full course would cost $7K, and require Eegie visit the vet a lot, for a long time. She said she could come up with a treatment for less money, if I told her how much we could work with.

But, if we can get him past this apparent Covenia inappetance and lethargy, if we can get the fluids cleared, if we can make him feel contented again, I just can't put him through the stress. I want the time I have with him to see him content. He knows how insanely I love him. He loves me just as much, although he's tired of all the bothering I do to him so many times a day.

I'm mentally ready to let him go, when I have to (never, emotionally, but mentally). I just keep hoping I can make that time later. I want my 4-6 months! If I can get more, I'll gratefully take it.

How are you treating Shadow with her cancer? What's your story and position. I want to look at that profile and video, I just have to wait until tonight, got tons going on today, and have to find ways to get Eegie to eat (he ate 1/4 oz on his own this morning after his morning starting meds. I do BG and insulin in 1/2 hour.
 
So, @rhiannon and shadow - I got an early look at the profile and video - nice work on the video, btw - I so enjoyed it. I teach Photoshop, Premiere and After Effects, did you use those to make it?
Shadow is beautiful. Looks SO much like my first kitty - Daphne - white chin rest of face black, same length hair - lots of similarities. She was such a princess! Lost her years ago to kidney (acute and fast) when she was about 13 1/2.

You DO have some of the same issues - and the same age (ish) as Eegie. With him, we're just not sure... either 15-18 or 19. These babies are such fighters!

I'd love to know more - what are you doing regularly? How'd you FINALLY get OTJ (I'm sorry you're back on)?

All we can do is love them, right?
 
Shadow went otj the first time after 100 days of juice. She rarely earned reductions the low way, within the first weeks, she started surfing
and we worked our way down the dosing scale every 7 days. She went otj with slightly higher numbers... a few blues....
and that's when she was x-rayed and we found she had arthritis all over ( she used to jump down from a 10 ft partition so she's caused it in her front legs) and her rear left hip has lots of modeling surrounding the removal of her ball from her femur when she was 5 months old- accident
with my dd.
When I started her on adequan her numbers lowered, and we also started bupenorphine, but just a tiny dose of 0.1 mL as she gets dysphoric
with much pain medication.

She's always had appy issues... very picky... won't eat the same thing twice in a row... and got tired of fortiflora.
I got an u/s mainly for a baseline and we discovered thickened pylorus, visible lymph nodes near spleen, and thickened intestine.

she's not carb sensitive so in trying to get her to eat, moved up from 8-9% carbs to some 12-14%....
I also went to an internist and got a second u/s and the results were the same.
We started pulsing budesonide which seemed to help some.

I think the higher carb gravies were aggravating her as she got severe diarrhea at the end of April.
metrodiazole, ondansetron, cyproheptadine, budesonide, clay, some paste stuff, and her adequan and bupe.
it took 2 weeks before the diarrhea stopped and it was so bad she got hemorrhoids. She even quit using the litter box because it would stick to her.
She cries when she poos ... and I don't know if that's her anus hurts or intestines.

I tried a novel diet ( kangaroo is the only thing she hadn't sampled) and she did that pretty well for 2 weeks and then refused it.
I continue to try raw but she doesn't want it and I don't really like withholding everything else until she eats it and she might eat more
with the appetite stimulant, but those always get her wanting food constantly. She keeps asking for more food even though she
just ate. And that's just a crumb of the stimulant.

she's currently on prednisolone every other day.... tapering down...
and gengraf ( modified cyclosporin)
but eating mostly canned foods, and poo is getting softer again.... not liquid but very messy.
I tried slippery elm bark , didn't notice any change but I can start it again.... and I gave her pearls for probiotic.
She eats fortiflora some of the time again.

She has FORL and will need teeth removed again eventually.
I don't want to put her thru the surgery for biopsies, especially if this is a losing battle, and she has a growing lump on her right
front shoulder( right behind it) that is a lipoma currently but likely it is a infiltrative lipoma ( she had one removed before)
and it's attached on the outside of her ribcage. We x-rayed that to see if it had anything inside the ribcage and it didn't.... as of yet.

She's had a basal cell mass removed from her tail a year or more ago. And the inflitrative lipoma was back before her initial dx.

I hate to have this oe removed if our time is almost up as she would be having to recover from that with all these other issues...
likely need dental within the next year.... and she's always in a bit of pain from her hip.
She has bone fragments now floating around the hip, the incision on the bone is all jagged ( and it was a clean cut when the surgery was done)
I won't keep her around with a low qol just because I can't let go.
I'm not ready mentally or emotionally.
I've been thru an awful 2 years, my dd turned 18 ... dec 28 2013. ( she was a high school senior)
I spent that Christmas packing up my dm and dgm, left dd at home, dd was engaged and we were planning a summer wedding.
I emptied a house , my dm finally had agreed to move to a nursing home after years with my dgm taking care of her.
dm had copd /lupus/obese and dgm was 89. The state was circling her to put her in nursing home.
dm was covering up the dementia of my dgm.
So moved them out to my town, dm in nursing home, dgm in my home.
dm died 11 days later from her copd on jan 1 2014.
dd moved out without telling us on jan 13 and accused us of abuse and thought we were narcissistic parents.... ( the websites for this are atrocious)
would only talk to us in the presence of a counselor who she warned that we might try to take her by force.
she overreacted to a lot of stuff, she and her fiance overreact ... and behaved like children.
She was 18... nothing we could do. apparently she couldn't complete sever the connection but it's been a year of hell trying to
re-establish our relationship which is still more distant than I want.
Turns out she had her teenage rebellion at the same time, she had never had it....and she declared her independence with several
explanation points.
with all that, my dgm had a stroke feb 3, her right side... she wound up in rehab so I had to drive back and forth for a month daily to visit her.
She improved for about 6 months with therapy but then she stopped doing the work and declined.
I had to put her in a nursing home permanently at the beginning of this year. So she's miserable.
So life has sucked this past year and a half, ain't over yet, and Shadow is a big unknown.
see dd once a month, she married a month after she moved out.... she calls once a week most of the time...
ds still lives with us at 23 but he's probably about to move out.
i have to visit dgm as often as I can.... as we wait for her to go too.


sorry you asked??? o_O
 
WOW! Have I got it EASY!!!!! You're one tough woman, @rhiannon and shadow ! Family is a blessing and a curse - sounds like you've born the brunt of everything going on! sometimes, at 18, they're still not out of that teenage time (I call it the time they're aliens), and apparently your dd just has to continue to grow up. But, taking care of your mom and grandmom - AND, the daughter, and the son AND THE CAT!!! And, I'll bet you probably couldn't have gotten through any of it without the love of Shadow... I know it's my babies - and especially Eegie who gets me through the emotional times.
With all the "D" abbreviations, do you have a dh to help? I must say that my bf has been a giant help (my bf... we've been together 26 years... but what else do you call him?)

So, Mom has dementia, but Grandma had a stroke?! And your daughter - well... she's old enough to take responsibility for being a **** (sorry to call your kid a ****, but that behavior warrants it - I call my family that same thing when they deserve it).

Eegie had tons of dental issues from the moment we met. He only has his front teeth (no fangs) and one molar - -which needs work, but it's the least of his issues). Eegie's also gotten tired of the fortiflora, but it's done him well - now, I'm doing his probiotics with a combo of Kefir, mixed with fortiflora, mixed with PB8 (another capsule with a few other probiotics in it). He won't eat it, so I syringe it. I also mix in some mild fiber, hoping to get some body without the constipating bulk!

SEB I ONLY use when he's got constipation - it does no good for Eegie on diarrhea at all... and he pukes up pumpkin - so it's hard to get the fiber into him. I use Heather's Tummy Fiber powder - it's gentle acai powder. Seems to help some. Right now, I'm hoping to see improvement, because he's been on raw for a while and done quite well. We make the raw in our Ninja (with Alnutrin supplement), so it's like fine ground, and goes into the wide syringe we get with the D-Lysine, so I'm making him have some real food the past couple of days. Hope it gets his energy up.

Sounds like you have a SURPLUS of energy! How do you DO it?

I'm so sorry Shadow has so many areas of problems. Eegie has some arthritis in his elbows. He hasn't complained about it, although now with all his other issues, he doesn't jump (although he can get down from a chair or bed and doesn't seem to cry out from it), so I've never given him pain meds. I take a lot myself, but not to him... yet.

Shadow's hip sounds miserable! That kind of pain is so hard to deal with.

But, I get what you're saying - you don't want to keep her suffering, but you don't want to let go. I'm in the same boat - I've vowed that he'll be allowed to go when he says so, or if his qol is miserable. Thing is, right now, I can't tell if he's really miserable, or if it's the result of that damned covenia shot - in which case, I will not put my Eegie down just because he got a med that makes him lethargic and inappetant!

I am very glad to see that you and your daughter are working on your relationship. I lost my mom at a very young age, and know so much of what she doesn't - she hasn't yet realized how important you are... but if you keep working at it, she'll get it, and when she does "grow up", she'll know better than to let go!

AARP magazine talks a lot about 20-somethings moving back with their parents, and extended families - and the care of all. Sounds like you can write those articles!

Hug your Mom and Grandma as much as you can - but hold Shadow for strength. She's got that unconditional love thing going on for you - and that's irreplaceable. Hug her for me, too....
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top