5/21 Ella +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67+3.5=67+5=103

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tpr

tpr

Member Since 2012
yesterday:http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=71387

Good mornig LL,

The action we thought we were going to see last night didn't pan out how we were hoping but she did get a bit lower in the pinks.
On a more positive note, I'm happy to report that she had a normal looking poop this morning..yay!!!
It's another glorious day over here and we're hoping for a slow and steady drop so that we can get out and enjoy it:)

Happy Monday to everyone that is off to work and Happy Victoria Day to all my fellow Canadians:)
 
Re: 5/21 Ella amps 400

Yay for poop :-D I know what relief that is (being a cat owner :oops: ) :lol:
 
Re: 5/21 Ella amps 400+2=380

Yes! Yay for the poop! With less "weight" to carry, I am sure Ella can slowly get down to a nice blue!
Happy Victoria Day to you too Tamara!
 
Re: 5/21 Ella amps 400+2=380+5=338+8=284

Yay we're in the yellow with +8=284!!!!

We put together a large pen in the back yard and Ella spent an hour lounging around and eating some grass. She managed to bring up a a nice sized hair ball thanks to some greens:) I'm glad to see some sunny yellows:)
 
Re: 5/21 Ella amps 400+2=380+5=338+8=284

Hi Tamara and great news with a normal looking poop! Ella is happy and showing you with her numbers coming down. How neat with the outdoor pen for Ella and her eating her greens! Happy Victoria Day to you. I'm not Canadian but wanted to wish you a nice day. I hope you can get out and enjoy the day pending Ella.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella amps 400+2=380+5=338+8=284

Nice to see Ella coming down a bit. Maybe she is getting over the NDW. A good day in the sunshine should also help improve things. My Neko likes to chomp on the yard grass. For some reason she won't touch the oat grass in the house. Hopefully Ella will feel much better with that natural roughage in her.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella amps 400+2=380+5=338+8=284

amps 173..dosing advice please..I have a feeling 1.5 may be a bit tad high seeing as we've dropped 100 in the last three hours advice?

edited to add: I think dosing her in the new location has made a difference. Perhaps she wasn't absorbing the insulin well in the scruff. I'm worried to dose her the 1.50 as she never got that high of a dose prior to the transition to wet food.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (dosing advice )

obviously i know she hasn't earned a reduction but i have a funny feeling about this.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (dosing advice )

Ok too late because I broke the rules in two ways. Firstly I gave a BSC of 1.25 and while waiting for someone to respond I stalled 20 minutes. I know she is FAR from earning her reduction and she will probably bounce from being in the blues but I can't come home for lunch tomorrow and I have an important meeting so I don't want to be up all night for testing...although I will be up for periodic checks. OK...you can throw cyber eggs at me now! :oops:
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS )

Ella - you continue to be successful in stumping your mamabean, and many others. Who would have thought to see what would normally be a great PMPS? I guess she got over her bounce or NDW or whatever it was. Good luck in getting sleep tonight!
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS )

I don't know what it is Wendy. We've been slowly increasing her dose so possibly her shed has just finally filled up or perhaps shooting her in the chest is helping her to absorb the insulin better. 173 is a perfectly fine number to shoot and she had decent drops throughout the day until the last three hours. She was probably low due to the fact that she was starving but I feel with her history of drops that she needed a reduction. I'm not too sure what I should shoot her if she bounces...so I'm open to advice:)
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS )

Where or where is my wet noodle?????? :YMSIGH: :YMSIGH: :YMSIGH: ;-) ;-)

In all seriousness, I would never speak against the caregiver doing what they felt was safe for the kitty. That's the bottom line..safety.

BUT....just so you remember, here's the thing about shooting a BCS or stalling...because of the cumulative nature of lantus where one shot builds on another, the shed from your current dose "can" (doesn't mean that it does every time in every cat) influence up to six subsequent cycles; meaning that it is likely she will do tonight what she would have done if you had shot the full dose on time. Tomorrow? Depends on how full her shed is or if she goes low tonight and bounces.

I'd be sure and get a +1 and a +2....we don't know how fast she might be dropping.

School should be out soon and so you will be able to be more consistent with her dosing.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS )

The shed may have leveled off at this dose. However, having given a BCS dose, your cycle count starts over. You need to re-stablize the the shed again.

So here's a different scenario. If you had shot the full dose and if Ella dropped into the blues or greens, chances are she'd bounce tomorrow. Of course, you might need to be up testing tonight. Just to complicate life further, for many cats, the effect of a change of dose isn't seen until a cycle or two after you expect it. Often, you'll see a cat earn a dose reduction, the bean reduces the dose and the following cycle numbers drop again. This is due to the shed not yet having time to adjust to the lowered dose. In other words, do not assume that Ella won't surprise you tonight.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS )

Sienne and Gabby said:
The shed may have leveled off at this dose. However, having given a BCS dose, your cycle count starts over. You need to re-stablize the the shed again. .
Click to expand...

Hi Sienne,

Thanks for your response. So just to clarify does my cycle start over at 1.25 or 1.5? Could I not hold her at 1.25 for the next few days and see if she earns an increase?
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS )

Well I needed your wet noodle about an hour ago :lol: I will get a +1 and 2.


Marjorie and Gracie said:
Where or where is my wet noodle?????? :YMSIGH: :YMSIGH: :YMSIGH: ;-) ;-)

In all seriousness, I would never speak against the caregiver doing what they felt was safe for the kitty. That's the bottom line..safety.

BUT....just so you remember, here's the thing about shooting a BCS or stalling...because of the cumulative nature of lantus where one shot builds on another, the shed from your current dose "can" (doesn't mean that it does every time in every cat) influence up to six subsequent cycles; meaning that it is likely she will do tonight what she would have done if you had shot the full dose on time. Tomorrow? Depends on how full her shed is or if she goes low tonight and bounces.

I'd be sure and get a +1 and a +2....we don't know how fast she might be dropping.

School should be out soon and so you will be able to be more consistent with her dosing.
Click to expand...
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS )

So just to clarify does my cycle start s over at 1.25 or 1.5?
Click to expand...
1.5u

Could I not hold her at 1.25 for the next few days and see if she earns an increase
Click to expand...
Depends on how high you want her to go. She hasn't earned a reduction. The point is to earn reductions...not increases :-D

She is just starting to settle in and finally make progress on a dose.

Well...if I had been here....I would have definitely gotten that wet noodle out!!!

Instead...you may get the Gracie stinkeye again. :-D
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS )

NO STINK EYES!!!!

I know she didn't earn the reduction but I was scared she would earn it when I wasn't home tomorrow...and that would be bad!!!!
How about if she is in the blues in the morning...and I can't come home to check on her...BCS?
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS )

+1= 113...yup she's dropping. Really Ella??? I was home for three days and you have to pull dramatics now?
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113

So just to be proactive here...if Ella does earn her dose reduction, and I shot a BCS of 1.25 what would be her reduction?
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113

If you look at March 23rd on Ruby's spreadsheet...she had been kind of constipated for a couple of days and she had some major, um, movement in the litter box overnight. It was a big turning point for us. She still had a couple of days of pink mornings, but I see that as the day the door open for us and she didn't look back!

Maybe this will be your tipping-poop!
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113

I think the 1.25u would be her reduction. When you shoot a BCS dose, it's meant to be a temporary reduction. Usually, the dose is lowered for one cycle because you have a low pre-shot and can't be there to monitor or some other safety-related issue.

I was going to suggest getting a +2 but our posts crossed and you did that. I would give Ella some LC to see if you can get her surfing and test in 30 min.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85

Perhaps her high numbers were due to constipation but she only experienced that for about 5 days and was in the pinks for three weeks!
+2=85 Should i give her some mc to slow her down? It's 12%
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 (mc to slow her d

Ok saw your post Sienne. She's eating some lc now. Would it be crazy to think that this action is due to shooting in a different spot?
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85

Tamara

I think if it was the injection site, you may have seen an earlier onset. She's been pretty flat and it looks like the dose has settled in....it could also have to do with her pooping.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74

Happy Victoria day Tamara and Ella!
Take cover, it's loud :lol:

could be an interesting night for Ella :mrgreen:
I am sure she feels a lot better after her business today, lol.

have a good nite!
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74

+3=67 should I slow her down with mc? The lc has not done much for her.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67

How much LC has she been getting? After each test, she should get at least two good tsps. Lather, rinse, repeat.

If you have been doing that, then yes, give her some MC...it's early in the cycle.

Slow down Ella.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67

I haven't been giving her lc every time I test. I gave her some when she was at 85. I thought I was supposed to give her lc at every test when she was below 50 but I guess since she's early in the cycle I should do it with every test. I guess I can stop testing every half an hour when she is on the rise?!
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67

When you see a cat dropping like this and this early, I think you need to feed two good tsps LC after every test until you get them surfing in the 50s or 60s. Yes...keep testing every 30 until you get her up a bit.

I have to test and shoot Gracie. Sienne will be along in a minute to help.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67

Hi Tamara,
What a big change for Ella!! It must have been the hairball/poop issue. I believe that the usual procedure is that after you get two rising numbers you can cut back on the frequency of testing.
I hope you will have a good night. Thanks for visiting us today,

Ella & Rusty
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67

She's actually surfing. If you subtract 20% from the 85, you are pretty close to that 67 and there's only 10% difference between the +2.5 and +3 BG numbers.

Take a look at the handling low numbers post. You will start spreading out the time between tests as you see numbers rising. You look to have 2 tests with rising numbers.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67

Unless she bounces we are in for a long night because her suspected nadir is between +8-9
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67

So she just finished eating but the last test was 30 minutes ago. I was late with feeding her. Do I test every 30 min regardless of when she finishes her food or 30 min after she finishes her food?
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67

Every 30 min. Basically, you want to give a teaspoon or two of LC (or HC depending on where the #s are) every 30 min. when you test. What the test data tells you is whether you need to give more food.
Low numbers post said:
  • Depending on how carbohydrate sensitive your cat is, feed approximately a teaspoon or less of food with high carb (HC) gravy or HC food only. (If you have a cat with GI issues, using syrup plus LC food is an alternative.)
  • Test again in 15 – 20 min. Depending on the numbers, give more HC food.
  • Repeat the above steps every 15 – 20 min. until your cat tests in the 50 mg/dL (2.8 mmol/L) or above range for 2 consecutive tests. Continue to feed in small amounts to keep numbers in a safe range.
  • Test in 30 - 40 min. and repeat the test and feed process until there are 2 consecutive tests where numbers are stable or rising.
  • Test in an hour and follow the same steps.
Click to expand...
The above was written when steering numbers below 50. However, it still applies when managing any cycle. Of course, you can hold off on food and see if Ella drops below 50.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67+3.5=

If I keep her surfing we won't know whether she earns a reduction. Wouldn't that be good to know for safety reasons? At the same time, I know helping her surf is good for her liver so I feel like I'm in a catch 22.

Looking forward to tomorrow, if she doesn't bounce, would it be wise to shoot her and if so, at what dose?
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67+3.5=

Since she's surfing, don't feed her and test in 30 mins and see where she is. My concern was not with the numbers between +2 and +3 but the drop from 173 to 113 when she should have had a spike and the difference between your PMPS and +2. Knowing Ella keeps it going until late in the cycle, I wanted you to slow her down a bit since she is only at +3.

As you have seen with her, when she's ready to earn a reduction, she earns it. If you can feed her LC and she pops up, she isn't ready for a reduction. If you feed her and she continues to drop, feed/drop, feed/drop then that is a sign she is probably ready for a reduction....if you have to work hard to keep her above 50 and she would drop below 50 without you doing that, it's a sign a reduction is called for. It's too early in the cycle to know if that is the case here since she is now surfing in response to the food.

I'll get back to you on the dose tomorrow ok? Let's see how she does for a bit yet tonight. I'm up for as long as you need help.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67+3.5=

Sienne and Gabby said:
I think the 1.25u would be her reduction. When you shoot a BCS dose, it's meant to be a temporary reduction. Usually, the dose is lowered for one cycle because you have a low pre-shot and can't be there to monitor or some other safety-related issue.
Click to expand...
You need to decide what dose you're shooting and shoot consistently. If this is a BCS dose, then it's a one time reduction. To be honest, we use 150 as the "no shoot" number for people who are new to Lantus. At this point, you don't qualify for "newbie" status. I'd encourage you to gradually start shooting lower numbers at your full dose.

It looks to me like you are thinking about dose in terms of the pre-shot number. With Lantus, it's the nadir that dictates dose increases and reductions. The pre-shot test tells you if it's safe to shoot. With a 173, it would have been OK to shoot your regular 1.5u dose. You have to do what you're comfortable with and what makes sense for you and your cat. However, you also need to consider the longer range impact of changing the dose. It keeps messing with the shed and given how hard you've been working to get Ella out of the pinks and reds, you need to take a deep breath and get used to seeing other colors on Ella's SS.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67+3.5=

Marje, I just fed her lc before I read your post. I was a bit confused as I thought I was to test and feed until we saw some rising numbers. So I guess I'll stop feeding and see what happens.

Thanks for your post Sienne. I understand that I am encouraged to shoot low and that we don't determine dosing on pre -shot number. When I made my decision to give her a BCS tonight it was based on the fact that she had dropped 100 points before her p.s. Knowing that she nadir's late, I figured she would keep dropping which is what prompted the reduction. If I was home during the day I would have no problem shooting low numbers and have done so in the past. What is important to remember is that Ella is an unreliable eater and may not sort herself out if I shoot low and leave the house. I have been helping Ella surf this out for the past 4.5 hours. If I wasn't here to do that, she might have been in danger. This is my main concern.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67+3.5=

Marje, I'm going to test her in 20min.
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67+3.5=

Ok..standing by :-D

She was surfing in the high 60s and you got the drop stopped. I was afraid if she ate too much and you needed her to eat later in the cycle, she wouldn't .
 
Re: 5/21 Ella pmps 173 (BCS ) +1=113 +2=85 +2.5=74+3=67+3.5=

on the rise +5 103. I'm going to sleep for one hour and re-test. sound good?
if she's bouncing, please advise me what to shoot:)
 
hmmmm..my alarm didn't go off...shoot! it's ok cause we are on the rise. +6.5=169. I'm off to bed for the evening as she's clearly in a bounce. i'm tempted to shoot her 1.25 and earn the increase...bad tamara..bad...unless you can convince me otherwise:)
 
Good...glad she's up.

You hold the syringe. But just be prepared that her numbers might go back up and stay up. No one typically wants to take their cat down so they can "earn" an increase back up. But it's your decision.

Good night. Hope you sleep well.
 
Hey Marje,

I was in a daze last night so i didn't get a chance to thank you for watching over me ..so thanks a billion!

ps: still toen as to what to do
 
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