5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 Dose reduction tonight? Eaten so little

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Maria & Suzie

Maria & Suzie

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Just to round off yesterday's thread

Yes, handy with a DH willing to help out a bit ! Also, when he is around, he is the syringe filler & shot giver. I don't know what he does differently from me, but I take like a good 5 minutes of fiddling to get the right dose in on the stripe and keep staring and counting and sort of just gets it right in 10 seconds, and he's better than I am at shot-giving. I gave her a shot once where she yelped and then got a little lump (I still feel guilty), when he does it, she looks all relaxed... It's okay though, I do all of the thinking & worrying, so it's fabulous to have a "shot-giver" in the house.

Food-wise, I am not sure yet how much is normal for her to eat. I've been letting her free-feed to gain weight, but now that her weight is normalizing, or at least out of the scarily low zone, I feel more confident about getting stricter with the wet food. She weighs about 3.5kg, 7.7lbs - how many cans of FF should she be eating? Those 2 small cans yesterday looked awfully small to me (but then, I am more used to really big tomcats wolfing down their food). She never eats more than 1/2 of a FF in one sitting.

Now that the worst is over in terms of weight eating, I need to focus a bit on her CRF. I read conflicting things about "as little protein as possible" and "protein is fine as long as it is high quality", but the one thing that seems to be agreed on everywhere is low in phosphorous, so I am now seeking out foods low in phosphorous (have found some and ordered them) to find something she likes + can eat without teeth. She's also very fish-oriented, but that's something we'll work on now that she's eating properly again.

So it was AMPS 219 this morning, odds are we'll see some nice blues today, and it looks smooth enough that I can leave her to it today and show my face in the office for a change (must keep boss happy too ! ;-) )

Oh,and I found some dried tuna snacks called "Thrive". She loves them and only gets them after she has been tested or had her shot, so we are getting into a little routine with that too now.... slowly finding our way to something that works for us all....

Maria & Suzie
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219

Nice AMPS, you just might see some blue (maybe even green) today.

As far as amount to feed....I have to go out soon, when I come back I can find the link to a calorie calculator. The general guideline is about 70kcal per Kg of ideal body weight (for a moderatly active adult cat) less active seniors or very active young cats and nursing/pregnant mothers need more or less calories. About 2-3 cans of Gormet Gold is about right (85g each) the amount of calories in the 85 gram cans is about the same as in the 100g dishes (the dishes being of less quality protein) the Almo Nature for example is only 70g per can but very high calorie/quality protein, as is feeding homemade raw so they need less (in terms of weight) than a lower quality food.

Spooky weighs a little over 4 Kg and maintains his weight nicely eating about 250g of medium quality (Lidl, Aldi) 100g dishes of food (about 2 and half tins per day) Socks who is actually slightly chubby eats about the same (his ideal weight should be about 5 Kg, and is usually about 6 Kg) I have yet to get him to lose much he is eating the same amount as Spooky (so the amount a 4 Kg cat needs) and he is still to heavy :roll: They do get treats occasionally, usually a few small peices of lunch meat, or raw meat when I'm cooking or cutting something. They are crazy about Käse Rollis, little parmasan cheese pills that stink to high heaven! Sometimes they get the forbidden (high carb) Katzensticks or 3-4 peices of dry food which I fling across the floor and make them run for it bcatrun_gif
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219

So if she's eating 2 cans of FF/gourmet and a handful of dry, that's probably about right. She eats max 1/2 a can at a time though, sometimes 1/4, so it just seems like she's eaten little, but when I add it up over 24 hours it's seems about ok then. I'd happily provide her with home-made food, but it doesn't interest her ladyship. The good thing with the Gourmet/FF cans being so small is that the smell does not go away so easily (she loses interest if something has been open for too long)

At 15, nothing can make her move fast, in fact, at any age, nothing ever made her move fast. Only in the evening when she decides it's "crazy time" and gallops across the living room (once only) and attacks her scratching post. that's her big move of the day, but we're happy to just see that even!

Yesterday she was stretched out at some point as if something inside hurt, maybe she was digesting. I do need to get back into the CRF though.

Funny that, that your Socks eats what Spooky does and doesn't lose weight, just goes to show how metabolisms do work at different speeds. I can just visualize them jogging across the room for those snacks though !
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54

So, Suzie surprised me today by going from 219 to 54. So much for getting anything done today.

I contribute much of the drop to that she has not eaten much today, maybe about 1/4 can of FF, and even then, without much enthusiasm.

I just now encouraged her to eat a little more FF, she had a bit of a lick, but not super-enthusiastic. I'll test again in a bit.
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54 drop to 49

Just tested her again, down to 49, gave her a spoon of gravy as she's not interested in any other food. Will test again in about 20 mins.
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54

You're doing great. Remember to change your subject line in the first post to reflect Suzie's current numbers. It's a way to make sure that you've got eyes on your condo, especially if you need help or support (or offers of virtual chocolate).
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54, 49

Yes, I try to change the subject line, it worked the first time after 2 efforts, and then it didn't work when I tried to add the 49. What am I doing wrong? I can see it worked inside the post, but not on the main title in the Forum.

It's hard to be "handy with the PC" when I'm trying to stare at my cat (who is leisurely snoozing).

Need that "virtual chocolate"!!! I didn't need for her to do this today, because now not only am I concerned about the sudden low number, but that she has eaten so little today.

Time to test her again. Will post again soon. thank you so much for appearing, it's very reassuring.
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54, 49, 46

Now down to 46. More gravy. She seems fine.

still trying to change the subject line, and not being very successful at it....
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54

I THINK (oh oh!) to change the title you need to go to the first post you started the condo with and click edit. Then you can change the title (add numbers to it) then click submit. After that open the condo again and relpy to type a new message.

Congrats on earning a decrease (I think...) just keep her eating little bites and test once she comes back up a little and seems stabil you can let her rest. Usually they get hungry when they are low and ask to eat.
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54, 49, 46 dropping!

There, I think I managed to do it, the subject change.

She was at 46 just now, with no teeth there is no risk of her eating the meatballs (she's never liked them anyway), she licks the gravy nicely inbetween, I've been giving her about a spoonful's worth of gravy at a time.

The highest carb wet catfoodI could find in the shops was Felix with meatballs & gravy, where the total carb content is 5.5%, so am hoping the gravy bit is higher carb than that, I think so, since that's the bit with all the forbidden stuff in it.

She seems sleepy rather than hungry, but does lick when I park her by the bowl.

What's the next step food-wise if she is still dropping after the next test ?
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54, 49, 46 dropping!

Next step would be using karo syrup or honey rubbed on her gums, or fed to her in food to raise her bg levels--This is a quick fix, but does the job short term..try to find a hc wet food where you are, that is at least 10% -13 % carb with which to bring her up--This is great as you got a dose decrease!!
Great Job today & good catch!
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54, 49, 46 dropping!

Now up to 53. Gave her a little more gravy. She's really not very interested in food today in general (and she's not full), so I am worried about if/when the gravy wears off.

Should I try with some of the FF she usuallly eats ? (even though it's LC, I'm thinking she needs something that stays in the system for a bit?)

She is still on some dry food, as we are transitioning, should I try with a bit of that so she has something that acts for a little longer?

I mean, I'm glad to see the 53, but the other day she went from 40 to 56 back to 42, so I of course want to see it keep going up.

How high does it have to be before I can stop being nervous?
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54, 49, 46 dropping!

The numbers can bobble around. It's why we encourage you to get 2 consecutive tests where the numbers are surfing or rising before you stop testing. You can put gravy on top of the FF or other LC food. You're correct that the HC will wear off more quickly than the LC. If you can avoid the dry, I'd avoid it.

It looks like Suzie earned another dose reduction this morning.
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54, 49, 46 dropping!

According to my chart Felix in sauce has 27,87 carbs, The Felix Pate has 5,26

The calculation:

100% - Rohprotein% - Rohfett% - Rohasche% - Rohfaser% - Wasser% = NfE%

100%- 6,5% - 2,5% - 0,5% - 82%=5%

100% - 82% Wasser = 18% Trockensubstanz (TS) = 0,18

5% NfE / 0,18 = 27,77777% NfE in der TS

For Example Lidl Opticat Pate:

100% - 10% - 4% - 2% - 0,3% - 82%= 1,7%

100% - 82% Wasser= 18% (TS)=0,18

1,7% NfE/0,18= 9,44 NfE in the dry matter.


To calculate calories each component has a differnt calorie value (depending on digestability typically the modified Atwater-Factor is used:
Protein: 3,5 kcal/g, Fat: 8,5 kcal/g, NfE (carbohydrates): 3,5 kcal/g

The Energy in kcal / 100 g Food is calculated as follows:

(%Protein * 3,5 kcal/g) + (%Fat * 8,5 kcal/g) + (%NfE * 3,5 kcal/g)

So for The above Lidl Opticat

(10% * 3,5 kcal/g) + (4% * 8,5 kcal/g) + (9,44% * 3,5 kcal/g)= 102 Kcal per 100 grams food

Average adult cat needs 70 kcal per kilogram ideal weight (4kg cat) needs 4kg * 70 kcal= 280kcal per day so about 270 grams of this food.
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54, 49, 46 dropping!

If the meatballs and gravy are 5.5% carb, that's LC food.

I've never put syrup on Gabby's gums. That's a strategy typically reserved for a symptomatic hypoglycemic episode or a cat who's number are very low (think in the 30s or lower) and refusing food. If you can't find a higher carb food, add a few drops of honey or similar type of syrup (we use Karo here -- it's a corn syrup) on top of Suzie's regular food.
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54,49,46,53,48

Well, glad to hear the Felix with gravy is higher in carbs than I thought! So I grabbed the right food after all. It didn't do the trick though, she's now back down to 48. So now I took a bit of honey (much less than last time) and put in her mouth, because putting it on her food turned her off completely (just easier, no teeth to bite me with anyway).

She is very insulted at the whole process and is now hiding under the kitchen sofa in the hopes I won't be able to reach her for anymore ear-pricking (this will involve me having to worm under the kitchen table and reach for her, and she knows it!)

Now waiting with baited breath to see it go up & stay up.

This time, DH is home to "enjoy" the experience with us, he is working from home and has taken the lemon-shaped kitchen timer with him down and pops up again when it rings to help with the next test. Doesn't hurt for him to see that it's not just a "test once, walk away" thing! Useful "guy comment" of the day : "you mean she doesn't like the taste of honey?"

Man, this one really came out of nowhere and totally blindsided me. I didn't get out of the house as early as I had hoped, or I wouldn't have been home for it!

Maybe some day she will let me out of the house long enough ;-) to scour the shops for really high carb food, it must be the really cheap stuff, because so far I haven't found anything higher than the Felix with gravy I used today...
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54, 49, 46 dropping!

Ragnar's kidney function went from inadequate to normal on a combination of low-phosphorus foods and Azodyl. I chose the foods by comparing the lists on the CRF website with those on Janet and Binky's page. (I had to use the old CRF chart - not enough foods listed in the new one.) Some foods were shown as much lower in phosphorus on one chart than another, so I picked ONLY those that were low on both charts. They were, in ascending order of phos.:

Friskies Beef and Liver Special diet
Friskies Beef and Chicken (or was that liver and chicken? - there's only one) Special diet.
Friskies regular Chicken and Liver pate
Friskies Salmon Dinner pate (slightly higher phos. than the others, but a treat)

I later added:
Friskies Special diet "with salmon" (VERY low phos.)
Friskies regular Mixed Grill

On this and 3 Azodyl a day (in pill pockets or in food), his BUN and creatinine went from significantly above normal (I forget the exact numbers, it was last year) to the normal range. His phos. also declined from 5.9 (up to 7.5 is normal, but 5.9 is undesirably high for a cat with impaired renal function) to 4.0 over a period of months.

This may also work for you!

Blessings!

Shirley and Mr. Hides At Shot Time

PS: When Ragnar's BG went down to 45, it didn't hurt him, and it meant he was making his own insulin again! He didn't need it again for more than a year. Could that be what's happening with you?

PPS: I wish I had a DH to give the shots, or even to move the heavy furniture so I could get to Ragnar at shot time. He's taken to hiding where I can't get him even by worming, which has lead to some long intervals between shots, and shots in the wee hours as I gradually work back toward normal, an hour at a time. Normal is 9 AM/PM but we haven't gotten back there yet because he's always hidden again. :sad:
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54, 49, 46, 53, 48

Just a thought...

I like to test at +2. I find it gives me some idea of what's going to happen with Gabby's cycle. At +2, you should have about the same number as at PS. If it's lower, there's a good chance you'll have an exciting cycle.

A drop to 48 isn't bad. Like I said earlier, the numbers will wobble a little given that it's early in the cycle. Adding some gravy to LC would have been fine rather than forcing honey. On the other hand, whatever works!
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54, 49, 46, 53, 48, 78

She's had a general lack of interest in food today, she had very little for breakfast, so that may have contributed to the sudden plunge... Yesterday she did SO well on mostly wet and almost no dry, so maybe her body is getting used to the change?

Well, the bit of honey has led to a 78.

She's back under the kitchen sofa, clearly fed up with the whole business. Fortunately she has not made a made a mad dash for a craftier hiding place (I won't let her read what Ragnar does, she may get some crafty ideas!)

We have an appointment with the vet tomorrow for a check-up anyway, am going to ask for a blood work-up, so we can see the latest on the CRF (Shirley, thanks so much for your tips, it gives me some ideas what to prod the vet over). Sometimes CRF can cause acid stomach, nausea which affects the appetite. Suzie should have gained enough weight by now to be strong enough for some blood-letting.... (kidding, I mean the several vials they take of course... last time I looked the vet had no leaches handy....)

I'll test her soon again (DH will only perform injections and assist in blood-tests, and then walk off again, any dragging of cat from under sofa or fretting over numbers is my sole job.... well, you guys help me fret over numbers). Fingers crossed it's going up, because I doubt she will eat or lick anything more (and, really, honestly, today I didn't make the mistake of stuffing her).

I'm getting so stressed out over this because I really have to work as well, my boss is asking questions about my whereabouts and not seeing much of me in the office lately....

Hoping the next one she gives me is good, it's already 6pm here, the day is lost.... (and it's sunny & beautiful too!)
 
Re: 5/20 Suzie AMPS 219 +4 54, 49, 46, 53, 48, 78

and now she gave me a 73.... slightly lower than the previous 78, but she's hovering in roughly the same place at least...

So we are looking at a dosage reduction tonight, yes? From 3.5 to 3.25 ?
 
The +10 test was 92

She's eaten about 1/4 today of what she ate yesterday.

She went under 50 earlier today, she's getting a reduction to 3.25 IU (if she is still not eating well, would that be ok or too high?)
 
As a cat gets better regulated their appetite decreases. When first diagnosed, the glucose that should be going to feed the cells isn't getting where it's supposed to go. Instead, it's floating around in the blood. Once numbers start coming down, more glucose is getting into the cells and providing for Suzie's nutritional needs more effectively. I've seen Gabby's appetite drop initially and she's wanting less food some days more recently. As long as Suzie is getting a sufficient number of calories for her weight and activity level, I wouldn't worry.

Suzie earned a dose reduction to 3.25u. If she bounces very high (over 300), you can shoot the old dose through the rebound. Otherwise, shoot the new dose.
 
Thank you SO much for that explanation. I was thinking it might be something like that.

I've had so many horrible days of sitting next to what was a "bag of bones" instead of a cat, watching her slowly starve, force-feeding her, before we had a diagnosis and could start treating her and then I've seen her to start to eat again, groom again, and be Suzie again, so when she was subdued today and not eating much, and it took a while (well, it felt like it to me) to get the numbers up again, I felt so down.

You've helped to give me a better night's sleep.

DH is SO on "night watch" to test her after I go to bed tonight. Must dig up some movies to encourage him to stay awake extra-late tonight! ;-)

We are going to the vet tomorrow late afternoon for a check-up, she hasn't seen Suzie for a while, she'll be surprised at the overall weight gain and fur quality improvement. I'm going to ask for a blood test to see how the CRF is doing.

3.25 IU it is then!

Thanks again !
 
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