5/20, Susie, 79 at +10

PerfumedCatMom said:
I have Weruva MC and HC foods in pouches that I give to Ruby when she is low, and they are low calorie in comparison to pates and I give her the gravy with some small pieces of meat in it (the leftovers I feed to Olive who happily obliges :cat:). Each time I fed her but a small spoonful, like the kind of spoon you'd use to stir tea. I use Weruva BFF OMG Devour Me for her MC food (12%) and Cats in the Kitchen Mack Jack and Sam for her HC (19%). They don't fill her up, keep her hungry, and she loves the taste. If I want to keep her surfing with LC, I used to give her pates but now I just give her a bit of her raw food. You can do this without getting Susie chubby!
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Thanks, Katherine. I'm pretty sure Susie will never eat anything that is raw. I was never able to interest her in raw steak, tuna, chicken, turkey etc but I might look in to the Weruva. I have seen it mentioned many times.
 
SashaV said:
Of course. I've tried vacuum cleaning to stress her BG up... let me just say, it didn't work. Or well, the floor got clean, but Mauer only went up 2 points :D
I might also have a tendency to overdo the HC. I used a whole can last night, and Temptations.... and a little ice cream. None of them worked and shot her back up, she just kept surfing. :rolleyes::oops:

The book.. the idea is fine, but you'll probably never see it in a vets office. Unless written by a veterinarian..
Some even tell newly diagnosed owners to NOT listen to the crazy big internet.
And the problem is with books, they can't get updated. So if a company changes their recipe, people might still use the food in good faith. So for anything important I'd never recommend books.. I see it all the time with rabbits "but the book says..." yeah, but that book is from 1985, welcome to the future!
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Good point, Sasha. But there could be a reference at the end of the book for more updated information. "Go online to FDMB." This would solve the outdated information and I think that, for the most part, the standard treatment would remain the same until the researchers come up with new and improved methods. Again, at the end of the book, reference the FDMB website for updates. I really believe in this book if only to stop our vets from spreading misleading information.
 
Summer and Susie said:
Thanks, Katherine. I'm pretty sure Susie will never eat anything that is raw. I was never able to interest her in raw steak, tuna, chicken, turkey etc but I might look in to the Weruva. I have seen it mentioned many times.
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I highly recommend Weruva for feeding the curve. Plus the names of their foods crack me up. :p

I never ever thought Ruby would be into raw food either. In the past I tried giving her pieces of chicken but she never recognized meat as food, only kibble and fish flavored wet food (what I fed her for many years). Somehow though, when her IBD diagnosis loomed, I tried EZ Complete to balance the meat on the recommendation of a lot of people here and it's like kitty crack. :cat: She loves the taste of it. Maybe it's the ground up freeze dried chicken liver in it or the powdered green lipped mussels, but whatever it is it has a strong smell not unlike kibble to my human nose. Now if I am cooking chicken breast or thighs, I'll put a little piece on a plate as a treat and she gobbles it up because she recognizes it as food now. I've transitioned both cats to it. It's cheaper for me than commercial food (I spend about $80 a month on both cats because I buy novel proteins like venison and bison but you can get by on much less), I really enjoy cooking, and it's better for their health in the long run. That's my humble opinion. :)
 
90 at PMPS. Fed 1/2 can of FF l/c at PMPS. Another reduction. Hoping that she will continue to come up tonight slowly. I don't want to be up all night. Tomorrow is another day. Hopefully, with a fourth reduction in 10 days, we will finally start to settle out.

Do all of these reductions mean her pancreas might be kicking in to produce its own insulin? I can only hope.
 
Good job handling things. Today was a bounce clearing cycle and on a bounce clearing cycle the cat can zoom down faster than normal and have a later nadir. I hope Susie surfs safely tonight. I'd definitely get a +1 or a +2 and if the number is the same or lower you can expect she'll probably go down tonight and you should feed HC food if you want to get some sleep.
 
carfurby said:
Good job handling things. Today was a bounce clearing cycle and on a bounce clearing cycle the cat can zoom down faster than normal and have a later nadir. I hope Susie surfs safely tonight. I'd definitely get a +1 or a +2 and if the number is the same or lower you can expect she'll probably go down tonight and you should feed HC food if you want to get some sleep.
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Thanks, Carla. I'm getting ready to get another test at +1 but I think the +2 will be indicative of the pattern I can expect tonight. I will certainly feed HC if she is still low. I do not want to be up all night.
 
carfurby said:
Good job handling things. Today was a bounce clearing cycle and on a bounce clearing cycle the cat can zoom down faster than normal and have a later nadir. I hope Susie surfs safely tonight. I'd definitely get a +1 or a +2 and if the number is the same or lower you can expect she'll probably go down tonight and you should feed HC food if you want to get some sleep.
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Carla, I just got a 104 at +1 which isn't much higher than the 90 I had at PMPS. What should I do? Should I feed her about a TBLS of medium carb? I really am not too worried if she goes up tonight - in fact that would be a relief. What would you do?
 
SashaV said:
I read somewhere that TR has safeguards built in, SLGS doesn't.
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There most certainly are safeguards built into SLGS, one of which is taking immediate reductions when a kitty falls under 90. Changing the reduction threshold should not be undertaken lightly by a caregiver, since there are inherently risks in doing so. That is one of the reasons why I try and offer some guidance when I see the topic of making adjustments to SLGS, particularly when a caregiver perhaps has not gathered enough data on how the insulin is working or how carb sensitive the cat is. If a caregiver can't answer these questions, IMHO, they shouldn't be personalizing SLGS:

-How much of a food bump does kitty usually get after their main meal?
-How easy is it to bring your kitty up when the numbers are lower? What carbs does it take, how carb sensitive is he?
- do you feel you have a good idea of when your kitty onsets, nadirs and how much duration they get on a certain dose?
- what is the reason for needing to modify the general guideline?

But, this post I think sums it up much better, it's worth reading, or perhaps re-reading Protocols: Myths Debunked
 
Summer and Susie said:
Carla, I just got a 104 at +1 which isn't much higher than the 90 I had at PMPS. What should I do? Should I feed her about a TBLS of medium carb? I really am not too worried if she goes up tonight - in fact that would be a relief. What would you do?
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Hey Susie's doing great! Finally getting some movement.

You want some sleep? How many hours before you go to bed? I'd hesitate to bust out HC because you want her to spend more time in these numbers. MC not a bad idea but realistically only buys you maybe an extra hour or so.

Edit: in my opinion she's too unpredictable right now. I'd be testing every 1.5-2 hrs regardless of the numbers and food given. She may bounce again, but she's been clearing them very fast and dropping hard. You may want to consider a schedule shift if it'll make it easier on you?
 
Christie & Maverick said:
There most certainly are safeguards built into SLGS, one of which is taking immediate reductions when a kitty falls under 90. Changing the reduction threshold should not be undertaken lightly by a caregiver, since there are inherently risks in doing so. That is one of the reasons why I try and offer some guidance when I see the topic of making adjustments to SLGS, particularly when a caregiver perhaps has not gathered enough data on how the insulin is working or how carb sensitive the cat is. If a caregiver can't answer these questions, IMHO, they shouldn't be personalizing SLGS:

-How much of a food bump does kitty usually get after their main meal?
-How easy is it to bring your kitty up when the numbers are lower? What carbs does it take, how carb sensitive is he?
- do you feel you have a good idea of when your kitty onsets, nadirs and how much duration they get on a certain dose?
- what is the reason for needing to modify the general guideline?

But, this post I think sums it up much better, it's worth reading, or perhaps re-reading Protocols: Myths Debunked
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Thanks, Christie. All of the above questions are somewhat unknown even though I have been on this site for five months. I have never had this problem before. She has always been fairly high with the BG and all of a sudden I am having to reduce her dose numerous times in the past 10 days. No, it is not easy to raise her numbers with food and that is what scares me the most. I honestly do not know if she is carb sensitive. What does that really mean? She seems to do better with higher carbs but don't most cats? I modified the general SLGS guideline because I wanted to see her in lower numbers. I reduced her reduction point to 70 and under. I thought it was the right thing to do to get her lower. I am just stunned that she has suddenly been so uncontrolable with low numbers. She was 78 tonight at +2. Lower than her PMPS. I am all the way down to 2 units from a 3.75 not too long ago. I think I might go back to the standard "reductions at 90" protocol because I can't handle not being able to raise her numbers with food. By the way, you are not familiar with me but I have said, from day 1, that I was not aiming for remission with Susie. I don't want to play the "hypo game". I will be happy with her at upper green of blues the rest of her life.
 
FrostD said:
Hey Susie's doing great! Finally getting some movement.

You want some sleep? How many hours before you go to bed? I'd hesitate to bust out HC because you want her to spend more time in these numbers. MC not a bad idea but realistically only buys you maybe an extra hour or so.

Edit: in my opinion she's too unpredictable right now. I'd be testing every 1.5-2 hrs regardless of the numbers and food given. She may bounce again, but she's been clearing them very fast and dropping hard. You may want to consider a schedule shift if it'll make it easier on you?
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I am normally in bed right now (8:25 pm or +2.5) I usually am in bed by 7:30 at night but not since Susie decided to play "Russian Roulette" with her BG. I am going to have to look long and hard at what is going on with her tomorrow. I think I loaded her up with h/c food tonight but, as you said, she is very unpredictable. Will schedule another test around +5.
 
I had wanted to make sure to correct the misconception posted that there are no safeguards with SLGS. That can be misleading to folks who may be new, don't post, and are not familiar with our dosing methods.

I think you're doing fine, although lately it seems Susie is testing you. I have come by your condos in the past and posted, so I do have some familiarity, although more recently I just read. There are a lot of things to weigh, sometimes you can find yourself torn between wanting to see better numbers, and having to figure out what you are comfortable with in order to get there. It can be a challenge. You have also been torn between following TR and SLGS, in part because of your concerns with having Susie go lower than you'd like.

One of the reasons to personalize SLGS reduction points is when a kitty has repeatedly failed reductions, which Susie hasn't really done yet. If you haven't tested a reduction point of 90 to see if it works, how do you know it doesn't? Perhaps something worth considering.

Hope she stays flat the rest of the cycle tonight.
 
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PerfumedCatMom said:
I highly recommend Weruva for feeding the curve. Plus the names of their foods crack me up. :p

I never ever thought Ruby would be into raw food either. In the past I tried giving her pieces of chicken but she never recognized meat as food, only kibble and fish flavored wet food (what I fed her for many years). Somehow though, when her IBD diagnosis loomed, I tried EZ Complete to balance the meat on the recommendation of a lot of people here and it's like kitty crack. :cat: She loves the taste of it. Maybe it's the ground up freeze dried chicken liver in it or the powdered green lipped mussels, but whatever it is it has a strong smell not unlike kibble to my human nose. Now if I am cooking chicken breast or thighs, I'll put a little piece on a plate as a treat and she gobbles it up because she recognizes it as food now. I've transitioned both cats to it. It's cheaper for me than commercial food (I spend about $80 a month on both cats because I buy novel proteins like venison and bison but you can get by on much less), I really enjoy cooking, and it's better for their health in the long run. That's my humble opinion. :)
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Katherine, are you lightly cooking their food then and then mixing with the EZ Complete?
 
Summer and Susie said:
I suggested the book to be a great idea to have on bookshelves and in book shops. Not everyone wants to sit and read stickys on the website. They want a printed copy to refer to. Something to pull off the shelf when they have a question or concern. A copy to have on a vets bookshelf that he can quickly reference if a client has a question. Something solid to hold in your hands when you need help. Some people just love to read books and not spend all their time on a computer looking for information. It was just an idea, Sue, and one that I think could change the way people manage feline diabetes if they had access to it. By the way, I don't think a lot of people even know about the FDMB site but if they are looking for a book to help them out this would be the one.
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Hooray for books that you hold in your hand! I just can't cozy up with a computer and read! My kids hate electronic books, too. They want a real book that they can hold and read or peruse (or study! They hate electronic text books.)
 
Keep in mind you still have the depot to contend with... hopefully the two 2U doses drain it a bit. Also hopefully she doesn't bounce...I suspect once she evens out a bit she may actually stay in the range you're looking for. It's the hard bounce breaks that drop her lower than you like.

I'm anticipating another bounce from her with today's drop. She clears them fast, so if she's high in the AM I think you can expect her to break it during the day/early evening. You can try experimenting with feeding bounce breaking curves, but she's breaking them so fast and spending more time in good numbers that hopefully this doesn't last too much longer and she gets used to it.
 
Christie & Maverick said:
this post I think sums it up much better, it's worth reading, or perhaps re-reading Protocols: Myths Debunked
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Christie, thanks so much for reposting that thread. I read it when I first joined the board and I got some of it but a lot went over my head. Now that I've spent some time here and have wrapped my brain around TR and SLGS, I understand a lot more. It's a really interesting discussion, especially with regards to SLGS and concerns of a lot of caregivers about low numbers. Thanks again!
 
Libby and Lucy said:
let's not forget that 50 is a low number for cats receiving insulin! The reason 50 is seen as a safe nadir for cats following the Tight Regulation Protocol is because we know the dose is a safe one for that cat. We know that because of the way the dose is worked up to. SLGS does not have the same safeguards built in, so 50 may not be a safe number for cats using SLGS.
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This was what I read.. and I did say I couldn't remember exactly what I read. But thanks for the correction @Christie & Maverick :bighug:
 
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