5/20 - Lana - OTJ day #2 AMBG+2 : 84, PMBG : 94

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Good luck. Typically we go to 0.25 units for either a week in normal number range, or earning a reduction, before going to 0.1 units and then off insulin. Our goal is a strong remission, and experience here has shown that keeping on insulin as long as safely possible helps a kitty stay in remission.

Getting rid of dry food can make a huge difference.
 
@Wendy&Neko, in this case Magali switched to lower carb wet food than what she was giving, and Lana was already just hanging onto her 0.5ui dose. Given Magali is away from home for work we recommended she skip the shot for safety when she changed food... and there we are now.
 
I looked back at previous posts. the last one was May 2nd. I didn't see any dose recommendation since then, much less the one to skip the dose. We do like to see dose recommendations be made on this forum, where all can comment, instead of via private message or other method. With a weekend, perhaps some monitoring could have been done for a couple days at least on 0.25 units.
 
Removing the dry food made a big difference for Lana.

Fwiw, As Wendy commented above I reduced the dose from 0.5,then to 0.25 finally to 0.1, look at April 2016 on georges spreadsheet, waiting till I got 1week in the 50-80 range before reducing, it was hard to be patient but I did it to give the best chance of a strong remission.

Stephanie & Quintus said:
@Wendy&Neko, in this case Magali switched to lower carb wet food than what she was giving, and Lana was already just hanging onto her 0.5ui dose. Given Magali is away from home for work we recommended she skip the shot for safety when she changed food... and there we are now.
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I can see that the reduction was earned on the 0.5u but not sure why the 0.25dose wasn't held for a little longer. There was not a drop below 68 on the 0.25u.

We have seen cats remission not hold for long, once too often when the process is rushed, that extra bit of support for those healing beta cells can make all the difference.
 
I skip 0.25 because I gave to Lana wet food with only 3 % of carbs instead of 17%.

I understand what you are saying but I was not alone, I was on the facebook group of Stephanie.

Sorry, maybe I shouldn't post here...:(
 
It's OK to post here. :bighug: I do wish you well on the OTJ trial. I just want you to know that if the numbers start creeping up (which may or may not happen), you may have to go back on a very tiny dose for a while. I hope not though.

The comment on the FB group advice was not directed to you Magali.
 
I feel like we're going through exactly the same thing as when Quintus went OTJ. It's really discouraging when you reach the decision to take your cat off insulin and you're told you're "doing it wrong" and should have kept him on the juice, or that you're ruining your cat's chances of staying in remission.

As Magali explained, there was a good reason for not shooting on the night after the dose decrease: a major food transition. I think it would have been very unsafe to encourage shooting that 95 (AT2 number, reminder) with such a food change. She's been in perfectly euglycemic numbers ever since.

Why would we give insulin to a cat who is showing normal numbers, and risk stress and hypo, when the cat is managing just fine on its own?

Yes, I know there is this "strong remission" idea. We've had discussions about it before, and I'm still waiting to see evidence that keeping a cat on insulin when it is managing to stay in euglycemic numbers on its own changes anything.

I'd also like to point out that Lana is a very recent diabetic -- less than 2 months since diagnosis, and she has been rushing down the dosing ladder these past three weeks.
 
Magali & Lana said:
I skip 0.25 because I gave to Lana wet food with only 3 % of carbs instead of 17%.

I understand what you are saying but I was not alone, I was on the facebook group of Stephanie.

Sorry, maybe I shouldn't post here...:(
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You should post here we love to hear your success and celebrate with you.:bighug::bighug::bighug:

All we are saying is that in the combined experience of this group, which is many years worth of hundreds of cats, it's been seen to be beneficial to take the reductions more slowly to allow extra healing for the pancreas.



If you were changeing the food, from 17 to 3% doing the change slowly by mixing the food, would have perhaps given you the chance to take it slow with the dose.
 
Gill & George said:
All we are saying is that in the combined experience of this group, which is many years worth of hundreds of cats, it's been seen to be beneficial to take the reductions more slowly to allow extra healing for the pancreas.
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Does it not make a difference if we're dealing with a cat who has been diabetic for months or years, or a cat who has been diabetic for a few weeks?
 
But i'm working all day and i can't be here to check on Lana and be here if a Hypo happens!

I have to make some choices.

Stephanie and Cyndy told me to post here because it was great a great news but reading your comments is really stressful and discouraging. I was so happy of this trial. It was already difficult to deal with Lana's diabete, and I'm so proud of her.

So if I have to keep my trial for me to keep my hope intact, well, ok.
 
Wendy&Neko said:
We do like to see dose recommendations be made on this forum, where all can comment, instead of via private message or other method.
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I can't remember if you were around when we had the initial discussions about this. On the francophone facebook group, we try to get people to post here as much as possible. A few overcome the technical, linguistic, and cultural barriers to do that, but it's a minority. We really appreciate the people who take the trouble to comment on those posts -- you among them -- but I think that English-speakers underestimate how much extra work it is for a non-native speaker to post here. (Imagine participating in the German forum using Google translate...)

The francophone group will always remain the first space they post in. It takes a lot of (daily) encouragement to get people to post here, particularly when the number of responses they get remains small. It's understandable: their English is wonky, they post less often, don't participate in other condos, and are therefore less "part of the crowd".

I am open to any ideas to make it easier for non-native speakers to participate here and benefit even more from the experience on the board.
 
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Magali & Lana said:
But i'm working all day and i can't be here to check on Lana and be here if a Hypo happens!

I have to make some choices.

Stephanie and Cyndy told me to post here because it was great a great news but reading your comments is really stressful and discouraging. I was so happy of this trial. It was already difficult to deal with Lana's diabete, and I'm so proud of her.

So if I have to keep my trial for me to keep my hope intact, well, ok.
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You have every right to be proud of yourself and lana, the choices you have made have got her to this fantastic place. I can understand the fear of hypo when you have to be out all day.

The comments are not meant to be discouraging, I'm sorry you feel that way.:bighug: they are just meant as information, not just to you, but for anyone else reading Lana's post. In your particular position this may be the correct choice, but as a general rule it is seen to be beneficial to take it more slowly, so it is important to make the comment for the benefit of all who read your posts.

Please post we want to share in your success, we want to see Lana be successful in going off the juice.

Congratulations on day 2:D:D
Here are the instructions for the trial just so you know what to look for and what to do if you see numbers creeping up.
Instructions for starting the OTJ trial
Start the trial on the next green pre shot.
If he/she is green at your normal test times, no need to test further until the next "PS" time; just feed small meals and go about your day. If he/she is blue at your normal "PS", feed a small meal and test again after about 3 or 4 hours. If his/her number is lower 3-4 hours after a meal, then the pancreas is working!
Post every day so we can monitor your progress and see if any tweaks are needed. He/she may have a sporadic blue number. Don't panic but post before you decide whether to shoot so we can have a discussion.
After 14 days of no insulin, we have a party!!
Sometimes the trial doesn't work the first time and we have to give a little more support in the form of resuming insulin. It's not the end of the world if that happens; we just give him/her the support needed. Our goal is a strong remission and it's better to take our time to get that than to rush into remission just to have it fail later on.
Good luck with the trial!!!
Once he/she is through the trial successfully, you enter a new phase. Your cat is still diabetic but has now become diet-controlled. Continue feeding low carb food in the manner successful for your kitty. If you decide to change his/her feeding schedule, let your meter be your guide to the best times to feed. Avoid medications with sugar in them and steroid medications unless they are medically essential. Continue testing blood glucose weekly for the first month and then monthly forever. It's a good idea to weigh him/her monthly. Weight should remain stable. If he/she seems "off" or sick, or is showing signs of diabetes (excessive drinking, eating, urinating, weight loss), test his/her blood glucose right away. Keep the teeth and gums clean and healthy; dental issues can bring a cat out of remission. If you see rising blood glucose numbers, it's time for a visit to the vet!




Instructions pour commencer l'essai OTJ
Commencez l'essai sur le prochain tir pré vert.
S'il est vert à vos temps d'essai normaux, il n'est pas nécessaire de continuer à tester avant l'heure «PS» suivante; Il suffit de nourrir les petits repas et de faire votre journée. S'il est bleu à votre «PS» normal, donnez-lui un petit repas et recommencez après environ 3 ou 4 heures. Si son nombre est plus bas 3-4 heures après un repas, alors le pancréas fonctionne!
Postez tous les jours afin que nous puissions surveiller vos progrès et voir si des ajustements sont nécessaires. Il / elle peut avoir un numéro bleu sporadique. Ne paniquez pas, mais affichez avant de décider si vous voulez tirer afin que nous puissions avoir une discussion.
Après 14 jours sans insuline, nous faisons la fête !!
Parfois, le procès ne fonctionne pas la première fois et nous devons donner un peu plus de soutien sous forme de reprise d'insuline. Ce n'est pas la fin du monde si cela arrive; nous lui donnons juste le soutien nécessaire. Notre objectif est une rémission forte et il est préférable de prendre notre temps pour l'obtenir que de se précipiter en rémission juste pour le faire échouer plus tard.
Bonne chance avec le procès !!!
Une fois qu'il a réussi le test, vous entrez dans une nouvelle phase. Votre chat est toujours diabétique, mais il est maintenant contrôlé par l'alimentation. Continuez à nourrir les aliments faibles en glucides de la manière réussie pour votre chat. Si vous décidez de changer son horaire d'alimentation, laissez votre compteur vous guider vers les meilleurs moments à nourrir. Évitez les médicaments contenant du sucre et les médicaments stéroïdiens à moins qu'ils ne soient médicalement essentiels. Continuez à tester la glycémie toutes les semaines pendant le premier mois, puis mensuellement pour toujours. C'est une bonne idée de le peser tous les mois. Le poids devrait rester stable. S'il / elle semble «éteint» ou malade, ou montre des signes de diabète (boire, manger, uriner, perdre du poids de façon excessive), testez immédiatement sa glycémie. Gardez les dents et les gencives propres et saines; problèmes dentaires peuvent amener un chat hors de la rémission. Si vous voyez des chiffres de glycémie en hausse, il est temps pour une visite chez le vétérinaire!
 
Stephanie & Quintus said:
I can't remember if you were around when we had the initial discussions about this. On the francophone facebook group, we try to get people to post here as much as possible. A few overcome the technical, linguistic, and cultural barriers to do that, but it's a minority. We really appreciate the people who take the trouble to comment on those posts -- you among them -- but I think that English-speakers underestimate how much extra work it is for a non-native speaker to post here. (Imagine participating in the German forum using Google translate...)

The francophone group will always remain the first space they post in. It takes a lot of (daily) encouragement to get people to post here, particularly when the number of responses they get remains small. It's understandable: they post less often, don't participate in other condos, and are therefore less "part of the crowd".

I am open to any ideas to make it easier for non-native speakers to participate here and benefit even more from the experience on the board.
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I have posted on some of their condos, when I see them, and I am happy to be tagged
Using the prefixes will help if there's a question, and if you post your own condo regularly and perhaps visit other condos occasionally (I know that this may be problematic) I think they will find they start to get more visitors to their condos.


For me it would be helpful to know if english isn't someone's first language. That way I can write my replies in such a way as to avoid problems with google translate.
 
Wow! I have never even posted on one of your condos and Lana is going OTJ. Wonderful! What a difference that low carb wet food can make.

Gill gave you the instructions above for the trail so you will know if there is any pop up with numbers you can be on top of it. Post daily with Lana's AMBG's so we can cheer you on!! :)
 
Gill & George said:
I have posted on some of their condos, when I see them, and I am happy to be tagged
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You do, and many thanks, it is much appreciated! I will remember the invitation to tag and let them know.

Gill & George said:
Using the prefixes will help if there's a question, and if you post your own condo regularly and perhaps visit other condos occasionally (I know that this may be problematic) I think they will find they start to get more visitors to their condos.
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Indeed, the question prefix is useful. The challenge is to encourage people to post a regular condo. I think it comes much easier when you can read and follow other condos too, because the social norm carries you. But yes, if you have to pipe everything through Google Translate to read it in wonky French, it looses a lot of its attractiveness, and I don't have very high hopes about encouraging francophones to follow other condos.

Gill & George said:
For me it would be helpful to know if english isn't someone's first language. That way I can write my replies in such a way as to avoid problems with google translate.
Click to expand...

The francophones who participate the most are those who are most comfortable with English (unsurprisingly). I know @Marie Dagobah&Nikita uses her own English now more than Google translate, because it's easier -- but it's clear that when using a foreign language ease and expressiveness are limited. As for Magali -- she's highly literate in French, and expressing herself in English is very limiting (but still more satisfying than Google Translate). I make sure those who are using Google translate (like @Martine et Gomette, @Kailee § Dallas or @Lilli Plume and Plume, who has started Lantus today by the way) because they speak absolutely no English, put it in their signature.
 
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