5/2 Tommy +11 303, pmps 337,+1 375Thank You Everyone!

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Lauren&Tommy (GA)

Lauren&Tommy (GA)

Member Since 2010
Yesterday
~O) ~O) Good Morning All,
I hope that everyone got to have at least a little fun over the weekend.
Given +1 last night, I'm not terribly unhappy with +9.. Lets hope this bounce clears relatively quickly too.
Have a great day everyone! :-D :-D
Squirrel & Tommy ;-)
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please!

I went to give Tommy his +1 test and found that he had just thrown up all of his breakfast. looked around and saw some fresh blood droplets on a blanket. Went to check out the Lb to find a dark dark poo.. I cleaned it out again, he went in and looked as though he was struggling to poo, went again and i have a sample. It just looks wrong. this is new territory for me. it has a bit of slime around it. I don't know if the blood is from him trying to poo and couldn't or if it came from him trying to pee.. please if any one has some help i would appreciate it.
Could the throw up be because he was given his insulin before the food had a chance to work..
For the past 2 months when i feed him, i give him a chance to get down some food and then i shoot while he is finishing up.. Is this wrong. I've read where many of you do the same.. Please tell me if i'm freakin out for no reason.

He seems to be fine right this minute. He did attempt to make a place to pee outside the LB while i was watching him just a minute ago.. Infection of some sort?
I haven't fed him his +1 just yet. do i hold off for now..
I will be able to be home all day to keep an eye on him, just in case he does need to go the Vet.
Thank you guys..
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please!

if constipated, they usually throw up from straining and could see some blood in stool. would be bright red though. also in throw up if it was a forceful toss. but if questionable, always a trip to vet or call is advisable. fresh blood droplets (since you saw him trying to pee outside litterbox) could very well be a UT. will need C&S to confirm for right AB
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please!

I think i just got my answer.. I followed him to his LB again wanting to get a sample of urine to test for ketones.. He only did a little bit and there is definitely blood in his urine.. I'll be taking him to the vets as soon as i can.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please!

I was thinking a UTI especially since he was trying to pee outside the lb.
I think he needs to be seen by the vet since you did see blood drops.

I don't think giving him insulin before the food would have anything to do with that since it takes a couple of hours until onset. I always give Putty his shot before feeding him.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please!

Thanks Dian, are there any AB's that Tommy should not have.. I mean are there ones to stay away from?
Thank you Miriam too.. I'm gonna get ready and make a call..
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please!

I guess we all posted at the same time....I am glad you are taking him to the vets.
Let us know how he is.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please!

stay away from convenia SP?. that is the shot for 2 weeks. Really should have urine drawn from bladder (cystocentesis). this is sterile adn they run a C&S and will know in 3 days which AB to give. some vets start with clavamox, others baytril.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please!

Good luck Squirrel. Looks like you're having quite a Monday morning, huh? :?
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please!

FWIW - I agree with the others. You'll need C&S to properly ID the bacteria, if indeed it is UTI - sounds like it is. And a double yes on the convenia. been there... It's a two week ab, and once injected it cannot be removed etc. if there is a reaction, you are in deep trouble. Good luck! and I am glad you will get Tommy to the vet.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please!

The last time Tommy had and infection i was sent home with an AB right away. You are saying i should decline the AB and wait for the C&S to be done.. He had a Urine MIC Culture done in Feb of this year.. is that the same thing?
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please C&S?

Wish us well, The vet said for me just to come on in..Thank you everyone.. I have my phone with me so i will look for an answer here if some one could tell me if i should decline the AB if the Vet offers it and wait for results..I'm not much of a confrontational person, but what do i do if says right there tommy has another UTI and here is the Clavamox.. How does he know Tommy has that, just by checking the urine at his office.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please C&S?

no, do not refuse AB (unless convenia). best to start on something and after c&s, correct AB can be started. could just ask if he thinks a C&S should be done or you could say, I would like one to be done. it is a good chance that clavamox will be AB of choice even with C&S but ya never know.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please C&S?

I agree with Dian. The scenario described is what I went through with Mannie. I would ask for the C&S - it is the only way to know for sure what bacteria you are dealing with. We started with the clavamox, waited the three days for the C&S results (in the meantime they had confirmed a UTI, just could not ID the bacteria then) and it ended up being the AB we needed. But you do need to have the C&S done BEFORE starting any AB's. Good luck.... and ditto again - not the convenia, not matter how much they tell you it is a wonder drug. it isn't...
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please C&S?

I agree with Dian....let them start him on something and then they can fine tune it. Good luck. Hope he is ok. Sending healing vines.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please C&S?

the problem with not getting a C&S is you do not know for sure if it is an infection or inflammation (the I in UTI). It could just be a cystitis or idiopathic type of thing. I think she just commented on this a few days ago
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please C&S?

You could also ask for something for pain. Either a UTI or a sterile cystitis is painful. Note: Do not accept Metacam for pain.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please C&S?

It very well could be interstitial, idiopathic cystitis. Gracie fought this almost 3 out of her first 4 years and never any infection. Symptoms were frequent trips to the LB, straining, small amount of urine, blood. But that was before she was FD and I would just be more cautious with a diabetic cat. They say that in most cats that exhibit signs of a "bladder infection" if you give them antibiotics, it will clear in 5-7 days and if you don't give them antibiotics, it will clear in 5-7 days. Proving that it is not infection. But ....like I said, with an FD cat that has no history of IC, I'd be more cautious to ensure there is no infection.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please C&S?

Any Update on Tommy? I am away for a day & then saw this!! You must have been really scared, but it is common for FD cats to get UTI's--Moonie has had them--I am sending Healing vines to dear Tommy--Poor baby!! And Calming ones to you..Not to worry-It clears quickly & may even be responsible for higher bg numbers--
Please let us know what happened! Big Hugs from us..
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Help Please C&S?

Well, I'm finally back from the vet and i don't even know where to begin, First let me tell you that Tommy seems just fine right now.
I gave him about and ounce of food just now and his first clavamox.
There was blood in his urine but no visible signs like what i saw this morning. Temp was normal.
Culture is being done and i'll know more in about 3 days if in fact something grows.. Last time it did not.

The reason i am just now getting back from the vet, are you ready for this one! No urine in his poor little bladder. I had a couple of choices,
leave him there for the day(not my first choice) to see if they could get any later on. Bring him back in a couple of hours and try again, or the decision i made, to stay there with him and try to get him to drink, so they could get a sample.

They gave me a bowl of water for him, he wanted no part of that. I came up with the idea, of giving it to him with a syringe. I asked them if it would be ok. They gave me one that measured in 1/2tsp, 1tsp, etc.. over the next hour i managed to get about 12tsp into him.. All of this while my vet was out to lunch. I pulled a chair up next to him while he laid on the exam table, towel underneath him and a big beach towel snuggly wrapped around his top half. He slept most of the time while i rubbed his coat from under the warm blanky. He was such a good boy.
Finally, after what seemed like forever, they finally came in and were able to get a sample.

Now, the beginning of the vet visit and him looking at My SS..
I will just give highlights... They might seem a bit familiar to you. I believe Julie talked about this the other day in her condo.
He is very unhappy about me using any R on Tommy.
Says that i am upping his dose much too fast. That i should hold it at least a week before making a decision to give more.
Numbers shouldn't jump around so much in well regulated cats and i said Tommy isn't regulated yet!!
Those high numbers are bounces and he's clearing them faster and faster and hasn't been in the black for almost a week. He said there is no reason Tommy should be on 11u..
He asked me again where i was getting my information from. Once again i told him about this site and said maybe he should take a look.
He actually asked me if you guys were doctors or endocrinologists? Said that any body, even he could come on here and start typing what ever he wanted too.
He feels by looking at Tommys SS that he could have the somogyi effect going on. Any thoughts on that would be welcome.

I did ask him about Pain medicine for Tommy and he said he could give me some tramydol, I held off for now. I did let him know that i would never want Tommy to have metacam and please put that note in Tommys Folder.. He asked me why I told him about the FDA and warnings of renal failure and possible death. He told me that he gives it regularly, has for years and that it's safe and he doesn't trust the FDA. He said the funny thing is that it's just fine to give an injectible dose of metacam. Said there was no reason Tommy couldn't have it. I told him that is my choice and i choose for you to NEVER give Tommy metacam.

One last thing, and this is what kind of got me mad.. I asked him if they had a dental x-ray machine, they do not.
He said why would i need to get Tommy's mouth x-rayed, i have been giving dentals for 15 yrs without a problem.. He said and i quote
"when in doubt, pull it out, the more the better"! end quote!!

IF the tooth looks bad, just start pulling and hope that you get everything included any roots that might be left.
Now i know that cats get teeth pulled all the time without having x-rays but why would you say something like that to your customer if in fact they choose to have the x-rays done.
I'm sure I have more i could vent about, but i will not right now. I'm sure i've given you enough ranting and raving for one week.


Thank you everyone that gave me moral support and much needed advice this morning before i rushed out the door.. I was still reading posts on my captivate while getting gas and heading to the Vet..
I look forward to any responses to my lovely visit with my vet today!!
Have a good evening everyone, I'm gonna head out of here and see how all of you are doing. :-D :-D
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

I was wondering should i wait a while to test given the trip to the vet today. We were there for quite a while.
His +1.25 looked pretty good until all the mayhem. @-) @-) nailbite_smile :shock:
Thanks guys!
Sorry about the Novel, but i feel better now getting it all out. :-D
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

Glad Tommy is doing okay. As for vets, I made appointments and showed up without the cat just to interview the vet. I reached the point where I was tired of all the attitude I received about my dosing of Tuffy. Right before she went OTJ and had her yearly checkup, the vet said I should not be shooting insulin, I was going to kill my cat. He also said she was a transient diabetic and didn't need insulin. As for metacam, it specifically states on the label NOT FOR USE IN CATS. somogyi effect has been disputed for years.

Try not to be upset by his remarks. You are doing a great job. Tommy is proof of that. Have a good night.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

I'm too angry to respond intelligently, right now!!!! I'm fuming mostly about the tooth pulling!
I'm shaking too hard to say anything that I won't regret later.
I'm so sorry you had to endure this verbal abuse!!
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

hahaha, not a novel - i breezed right through it. write more! ;-)

do vets all go to the same school? good grief.

the one thing- i must admit that i'm not especially worried about the roots being left in after reading multiple places online and asking the second vet about it. sounds like because a root isn't a foreign material, as long as it's not infected (ie, you should end up with AB, i suppose) the body will reabsorb it. somewhere i read someone equating it with leaving a splinter in your body - that's not the same. the splinter IS a foreign body. a tooth root is not.

i agree, ignore the parts on diabetes . . . that appears to be the best course. you're doing a great job and you can see that tommy is doing better.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

Unfortunately, i need him right now, at least until we can get the results back from the culture. I most definitely am in the hunt as are
some of you, for a new vet, once again..
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

i just meant to ignore his comments on the diabetes dosing. i think there are very few perfect vets out there.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

i did say that about the dental x-ray . . . but that was before i read in multiple places and asked this second vet about the roots. i think having the dental x-ray would be ideal. i would like that. but i'm no longer as worried, in this particular case, about punkin's roots that may have been left behind. i can't say for another time or in another circumstance.

not meaning to be evasive, i do think it would be good to have the dental x-rays - i'm just not as worried about punkin's roots being left behind as i was before.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

do vets all go to the same school? good grief.
Click to expand...
:lol: :lol: :lol: I'm in agreement with you here.

Stay strong. Vets intimidate me and Maverick didn't get the best care due to my inability to communicate effectively in the face of pushback or conflict.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

sigh...
yes, there can be a problem when everything is not taken out properly during a dental. that's the reason for post-dental x-rays. anything accidentally left in there can cause irritation (pain) and or infection.

as far as holding the dose for a week before increasing...
i'm NOT surprised at his suggestion. this very board advocates a START LOW, GO SLOW (SLGS) method when dosing for all insulins used. however, we've come a long way in that area... thanks to the German Katzen Board. They've been using Lantus long before it was available in the United States and came up with an accelerated dosing method which we know as the Tight Regulation Protocol. your vet is just a little behind the times. if you haven't already, print out the Tight Regulation Protocol linked in the Stickies for him.

metacam...
your vet's not aware of the black box warning which was recently put on metacam. again, he's just not up-to-date.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

Jill, I told him about the black box warning, he was aware of it, and stated he does not trust the FDA..
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

yeah. if he's aware of the warning and chooses to ignore it... not much to say about that.
shame on him... and i'm not one who is into vet bashing.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

Girls!! The Vets get like a half hour of education about FD in vet school...They may get to treat some
FD cats in their practice..They all have that old way of thinking, that 150-200 is regulated!!
If we left our cats like that, they would never have a chance of remission!!
Our protocol is from the TOP vets in the world--This protocol was years in the making and had hundreds of cats that passed through this site!! And all their info!
Between the protocol, Rebecca, a vet - our webmaster and creator, many vet techs, & peeps in the medical field on here--This website has more information about FD & all feline information, than anywhere I have ever found..
Look at all the OTJ's--Can these vets say that??
Hugs-you have so much help here--We lubs you--Stay strong & just wait for the urine results--We are here for you!
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

Squirrel, you have just made me very afraid for Friday when I see a new vet for Champ. I'm going armed with a printout of the protocol and the article in the Journal of Feline Medicine and Surgery so I have some ammunition. I'm usually a very articulate person, but I have a tendancy to come off as an airhead when I get flustered so I'm going to try like hell to keep my s**t together when I'm there. Blimey!! What a nightmare :roll:
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

I've now asked 3 vets locally about metacam - and every single one said that they use it. one said only under certain circumstances, but the others just flat out said that they've used it for a long time and not had trouble. every one also knew about the black box warning. the one who said "only under certain circumstances" is a personal friend and he said he talked to 2 experts in europe on it and felt comfortable about using it. BUT, he also said never on a cat with kidney or liver problems, or a cat that's dehydrated and he would consider every diabetic cat to be dehydrated.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290, +1.25 219 Vet Update!

Oh Patty please don't be afraid, they aren't all bad.. I wish i could have had Roni's quote with me today. I know all of that stuff she just said, it's just there's no way i could have said it that good.. Thank you Roni for that, it does make me feel better and i know i'm in the right place here and doing what i can for Tommy with what i have right now.. I had my last vet for 11 yrs until he told me that Tommy would probably be on insulin the rest of his life and that SD w/d was the ONLY way to go. I felt i had no choice but to move on.. I thought this new one was different until he picked apart my SS like i was doing something so bad to Tommy.. I don't know what to think right now. Am I letting him down some how? :sad:
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290,+1.25 219, +9 290 Vet Update!

Squirrel, you ARE NOT letting Tommy down!!! And it pisses me off that vet made you think so. He seriously needs to learn how to talk to people. Have confidence in the fact that you would never do anything to hurt your baby. If you were doing anything wrong, there are a lot of people on this board who would be telling you just that. So, as my a daughter would say, he can suck it!! :lol:
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290,+1.25 219, +9 290 Vet Update!

Wow, don't let that vet get into your head. They have EGO's, we don't. We just want to do what's best. They feel because they went to school and have the white coat that they know best and if they can't be bothered to read about the protocol or understand why a black box exists... how can they be educated? Their schooling shouldn't stop with vet school. They also can't be specialists - they are generalists. On the forum.... there are specialists ;).

Just stay strong. I wish I had someone assertive to accompany me on my vet appointments. Assertiveness I think is a big factor in getting vets to listen. Some vets just don't care. I lucked in with Maverick the day he passed he was going to be meeting the vet who was going to manage the next phase of his life. She had already agreed to the protocol before meeting him. I paid for a consult with her without Maverick. She first said she didn't think she could take Maverick on as a patient. But she agreed to take away the protocol and our printed spreadsheet. She called a week later to say she would be glad to see Maverick as a patient. There are decent vets out there. We went through four to find this one. Three were extremely difficult (one even yelled at me), one just wanted it his way or no way, and this last one. So if you do not feel this vet is someone you can be honest with and have at least a good dialogue with, I would suggest getting referrals. Maybe someone on here has a good vet in your area already. Maybe search the forum for your city or state.

Sending hugs.
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290,+1.25 219, +9 290 Vet Update!

no, squirrel. you are NOT letting tommy down. don't let anyone make you feel that way! please.

for those who are interested in learning about metacam: http://www.metacamkills.com/.

from dr. lisa: "Metacam now has a 'black box' warning on it stating that it is not to be used in cats so most of my colleagues will not use it anymore due to liability issues.

Other suggestions....Adequan injections....gabapentin....buprinorphine as needed for breakthrough pain....acupuncture."
http://felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=32764&p=340454&hilit=black+box+warning#p340454
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290,+1.25 219, +9 290 Vet Update!

(hug)) you are ABSOLUTELY not letting Tommy down. He has an amazing bean that went above and beyond to research the best possible way to care for his condition and to be the best possible advocate she could be for his health and well being. That is the exact opposite of letting him down!!

I had a similar encounter with a vet... realized we were with the wrong team when I was out of town on Christmas Eve and she called to check on willie (he was having his first ever green numbers and when I refused to drop Willie's dose from 1.5u BID to 1 unit once a day and informed her I had just given him a shot when his numbers were in the Alphatrak 90s, she cooly informed me that I had just killed my cat. We now have a regular vet and internal medicine vet that are at least willing to be supportive in what we're doing.... the regular vet is new and is along for the ride to learn, the IM vet thinks that owners won't stick to TR because of the commitment it takes ("let me know when you've had enough and I'll teach you how to do things more easily").

I'm sorry, but any vet who prescribes drugs with black box warnings because "he doesn't trust the FDA" is a MAJOR sketchball (and don't get me started on the dental stuff). Before we found our current vets, I took in Willie's spreadsheet and protocol to a vet up the street and agreed to pay for a consult, only to have him cancel on me without reading it... but it put us on the path to finding the right vets, and Willie is now doing awesome. Once you get past the UTI, start asking around. You'd get several estimates before fixing your car... you're interviewing several vets for Tommy. :)

Fingers and paws crossed that he recovers quickly! Sounds like the KTSS will be by tonight to help Tommy feel better!
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290,+1.25 219, +9 290 Vet Update!

squirrel, you KNOW tommy is better. you can see it in his numbers and by how he's acting. a vet who undermines your confidence isn't being helpful. if he seriously thought you were making a mistake he could try to educate you with more updated information that what you're following . . . .oh wait, there isn't any. :lol: just stay firm and let him know that you don't need help with dosing, just with the rest.

my vet just asked me what my plans were on punkin's dose, so a good-heart can be taught. :-D
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290,+1.25 219, +9 290 Vet Update!

Ya know, it just makes me both sad and mad that vets can make people like you feel like you are letting your cat down. That couldn't be farther from the truth! I don't know, I think vets like this are "threatened" by proactive, involved pet owners.

Hang tight...knowledge is power, and you've got lots of power behind you here!

Feel better, Tommy!!!
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290,+1.25 219, +9 290 Vet Update!

Hi - not too much more that I can add to what has already been said. I am fortunate that I have a vet who lets me call the shots, and is very supportive. I know you'll get through the possible UTI thing, and than maybe you can shop around. Please don't ever think you are letting Tommy down - far from it. Your care is top notch!

and on the metacam. Not too much more I can say short of: been there. that crap cost be the life of one of my cats. I wish I had known of the dangers - i didn't, my old vet didn't tell me, and well he died a couple of months later: renal failure. so - stick to your guns on that one. It is black boxed for a reason.

And don't worry is Tommy's numbers are a little off for a bit - vet stress can elevate them sometimes.

have a good night - I hope your day bets better. And thanks for the not too lengthy update - I loved it, enjoyed it, learned from it. :-D
 
Re: 5/2 Tommy AMPS 290,+1.25 219, +9 290 Vet Update!

Vet stress doesn't help the beans' BG either! If you're dedicated enough to be treating FD, you can locate a good vet as well. Knowledge is power. It's been said before but deserves repeating. You are doing awesome with Tommy.
 
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