5/19 Tommy AMPS 487~.25R,+1R 447, +4R 395

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Lauren&Tommy (GA)

Lauren&Tommy (GA)

Member Since 2010
Yesterday
Good morning LL Fam ~O) ~O) :YMSIGH:
I wanted to get this up early today to see if any one might have some insight for me. I still have about 2 1/2hours before a.m. shot.. and I have a question about Clavamox..
Tommy had been on Clavamox for 14 days for bladder problems and tooth infection. Just the other day per the vets instructions I was told to give 1 a day for 7 days, and then 1 every other day for 7 days and then be done..
What i would like to know is that since i have been giving him just the 1 clavamox in the morning, his numbers are through the roof again..Now i know it can take 72 hrs for a bounce to clear, but looking at his SS that just isn't the case with him anymore, or at least it hasn't been for a while. And these high numbers are coinciding with the 1 a day clavamox.. Is this just coincidence or could the 2x a day clavamox be keeping a more serious problem at bay..

Even the help of "R" isn't putting a dent in his numbers right now.I'm wondering if i should go up to .50 on the "R" this morning :?:. I'm using so much Lantus right now that i'm sure the pen is still good, and there's been no contraband stolen. No outside the LB peeing, no sick belly..
Ketones test are NEG.

He's acting fine, 5p's in place pretty much every day and he plays now more than he did when he was younger.
Please any help with this would be very much appreciated.. I'm wondering if i should go back to 2x a day with the clavamox to see if it helps until i can get to a new vet..

Big Hugs to you all :YMHUG: :YMHUG:
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559 OUCH!! ?

Both my cats have been on Clavamox several times--Moonie always got liquid which is a twice a day dose, pills, Copper got pills..Also got 2Xper day doses!--Can you call vet(even if you dont like him) & ask if the 2X day dose will be better?--OR Find a new Vet ASAP! I havent heard a once a day dose, but Tommy does have a different problem--Maybe ask the acro moms?
I would not tell you to increase the dose w/o medical OK from a vet..
But ANY infection will boost the BGS--Hope he comes down today--Big Hugs & Prayers you find a good new vet!!
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559 OUCH!! ?

I've given a couple of my civvies Clavamox 2x a day, also. Never 1x a day. I would seriously consider calling the vet back and inquire about the 2x a day treatment. I've never had a vet tell me to give medicine like that 1x a day, unless it's REALLY good medicine, and you can't give it more than 1x a day.

I wish you much luck, and look forward to any updates you may have.
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559 OUCH!! ?

Just a couple of words that will explain everything:

Tommy is acro.
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559 OUCH!! ?

With acro, the numbers can rev up and come down, just as quickly. However, if there is a tooth infection, that needs to be taken care of. An antibiotic may help to resolve the infection -- although you can't tell at this point if the infection has subsided and the acro is revving up or if the infection is still present and reducing the amount of antibiotic has caused it to flare.
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559 OUCH!! ?

I don't have any advice for you but wanted to say that we hope he comes down soon! Hope you get some answers. I would definitely call the vet though.
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559 OUCH!! ?

Do all tooth infections respond to clavamox? My dog was prescribed a different antibiotic for a tooth infection. I was told that oral infections are different. But maybe its a dog thing.
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559 OUCH!! ?

Hi guys .. I don't have any advice on the clavamox, just wanted to say I hope tommy comes down for you today .. hopefully you can figure out the right dosage for him soon .. have a great day guys!
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R

punkin was put on clavamox for his gum infection and it gave him an upset tummy, but bev also said that usually mouth stuff is anerobic bacteria and clavamox is for aerobic bacteria. i wonder if it's not really knocking it out. but strange that it comes and goes. usually you don't taper off antibiotics. i'd ask for the reasoning on that one.

i guess if he were mine i'd want the vet to re-look at his mouth and see if it looks like the antibiotic has been effective or not. if it's effective and his gum is clearing up, then perhaps it's the acro part. if it still looks inflamed, then maybe it's the antibiotic part - and you could ask about clindamycin, which is for anerobic bacteria. that cleared up punkin's mouth quickly, but you take it longer. punkin took 2 10-day courses of it.
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R

It's nice to see a bit of a drop @ shot time.. So that's a good thing :smile:

Natalia, thanks for coming by and giving us support.. I hope he comes down soon also..

Roni, I'll be taking your other choice, finding a new vet by next week.. I also found it odd about the step down process he was having me do.. I really appreciate your support so much. Big Hugs right back at ya :YMHUG:

Angela, Thank you for the good wishes, I will definitely keep you guys updated when i can..

Gayle, That's 3 words ;-). Look, i really appreciate you dropping in and keeping tabs on Tommy, but i would like my condo to be reserved for support, advice and positive thinking.. I don't mean to be an a**, but before Tommy had the "Acro" word attached to him, he showed very nice numbers for me and quite often. I don't think that just because he is confirmed Acro that that is the cause of everything.. I know he has some other problems and i'm trying to get them taken care of. I know that it could be the Acro acting up, but it could be something else as well. If you are going to post in my condo, Please i just ask that it be for giving support or advice (on something i don't already know), or just to say hi and see how we're doing!

Sienne, Yeah i certainly agree about the tooth and more likely his entire mouth.. I thought that too this morning that there could be a few things going on right now and we don't know which one could be causing the high numbers.. Thanks for your thoughts on this.. Having to find a new vet once again! ohmygod_smile
The stress in that alone given i have 6 cats and 2 dogs.... @-) @-)

Melissa, Thank you for dropping by also.. Answers would be nice.. I just have to whittle away at what i can.. And a Dental is next in line for sure!

Karrie, I don't know the answer to your question, hopefully some one will come along today with the answser. Good to hear from you again.. How are your 2 new babies doing? :-D

Devon, I look forward to opening my condo everyday and seeing those words of support you always have.. I too hope we can figure out what's going on here..You have a great day as well :-D
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R

Julie, thank you for the information.. Goodness it's amazing how much you all know.. Unfortunately i am looking for a new vet once again. I'll see if I can look at Tommys tooth here in just a few. It's his top right fang that broke off a few years ago so i should be able to see it clearly.. I'll write down what you said about the clindamycin and ask about the anerobic bacteria.. Thank you so much! :-D
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R

Geez louise!!! Tommy has decided to kick it on the top floor, huh? The good news is that he seems to be a happy kitty so take comfort in that. The vets advice on the antibiotics does seem strange. I know you'll figure this out, Squirrel!!! I've got confidence in you. I'm sending Tommy some healing vines. Hang in there kid!!
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R

Julie explained what my vet did for my dog Nike. She was on antirobe - generic is clindamycin - same thing Julie mentioned. I have no experience with it with cats though. Are you going to remove the fang? My dog was on it twice a day and same with clavamox for a UTI.
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R

Tommy just wants to hang and shoot R with his reprobate buddy....Gus. Seriously, Gus' SS just prior to his dental looked a lot like what you're describing. I had to hang really tough just to keep the numbers on the meter. Sounds like the AB takes just enough edge off of Tommy's dental issue to give a small improvement in his #s. INHO, if the good #s coincide with the AB, then the AB is hiding a bigger problem. As for the dosing, I can't speak to that because I still ask for help, myself. But what you are going through sounds like my recent experience. (Gus is acro without his dx, as far as I can tell). ;-) Good luck and hang in there. You'll get to the bottom of it.
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R, +1R 447

Patty, thanks.. Yeah he's pretty much skyrocketed on me, but he's still Tommy.. Thanks for the confidence boost... ohmygod_smile ohmygod_smile . I can't tell you how much i hate having to look for another vet..The place I'm looking at here in town has 5-6 vets that work there, so at least i know I would be able to speak to some body if the need arose :-D Do you have any thoughts about how i go about asking questions when i call.. With so many vets there, should i ask if they have a vet who is more up to speed with diabetic cats, let them know i home test, have a SS for Tommy, etc.. should I set up a time to bring Tommy in with me or visit the vet with out him at first?.. I think my head is going to explode now.. I'm going to go make more ~O) ~O) , one cup was not enough this morning!

Karrie, I would think that it should definitely be removed.. It broke off right at his gum line and it does look infected.
Could someone tell me the difference between anerobic bacteria and aerobic bacteria, because i don't know.. @-)


Sounds like the AB takes just enough edge off of Tommy's dental issue to give a small improvement in his #s. INHO, if the good #s coincide with the AB, then the AB is hiding a bigger problem.
Bev, you could be very right with this or it could be the Acro talking right now.. Dental and time will tell huh!.. thanks for visiting and bringing a bit of humor over here this a.m.
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R,+1R 447

On the vet search thing and whether to ask if they have a vet who is more up to speed with diabetic cats, it can't hurt at all - but please also remember this: Acromegalic cats are not diabetics. They do not have diabetes mellitus. Yes, they DO have symptoms SIMILAR to diabetes and have high BG numbers and therefore, need insulin (and lots of it usually!!) but it is really not the same thing AT ALL. A vet who may be very good at diabetes can still be lost when it comes to Acromegaly and how to treat it. Noone in this entire world knows more about Acromegaly than the Acro group - and that includes most any and all vets.

I am VERY lucky to have a vet who "gets" all this and is not only willing, but is happy to take guidance from me (yes, ME! = there's a laugh!) but me, I get all my guidance from the Acro group, including Gayle. Please allow me to gently urge you to look more to Acro and less to diabetes - and please know, this is in no way having a go at ANYONE here in LL! I have always had the most fantastic relationship with everyone here in Lantus Land they have been my absolute ROCK on more than one occasion. Ask anyone!

Anyhoo, just my $0.02 and I am only too aware that it is worth all that you paid for it!

Perry

Perry and all:

We DO have a forum right here on the FDMB for high dose/acrocats and of course there is no reason people can't post on multiple forums. Additionally, FelineDiabetes.com sponsors FelineAcromegaly.com (http://felineacromegaly.com or http://catacromegaly.com that has its very own message board.

Best,
Rebecca
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R,+1R 447

as for what to ask a new vet - as i mentioned in my condo yesterday, my vet had never even heard of acro, and when he asked his partner who is 3 years out of vet school, she didn't know at all, then said maybe they mentioned it in passing. he had to research to find out more about it. when i told him there were several kitties on here that have acro, he was really surprised. but again, that vet practice was traditionally a large animal practice.

so my first question would be "are any of your vets experienced with acromegaly in cats?" that's what i would place as a first priority. it's apparently unusual enough that if you can find a vet who has experience, that may help make the decision right there.

my second thought is the whole strangeness about the AB - i guess i wouldn't think that bacteria could rebound quickly enough to make a difference in BG every other day. that would imply that the bacteria multiplies on the days he doesn't get it causing the BG to rise nearly immediately and then they are dashed the next day and his BG responds immediately and goes down. i mean, i have zero medical training but that just doesn't seem logical. i would suspect that something else is a factor, and it could be the acro - if the tumor is producing hormones erratically, that could explain it. there are probably other factors that might explain it as well - we all see cats that aren't acro, that don't have infections, still have wonky numbers.

anaerobic bacteria is bacteria that grows without oxygen - as in the deep recesses of an oral cavity. so for example, if you had a bulging can of food, you would know not to eat it. what's growing in there is growing without oxygen and is highly toxic.

aerobic bacteria grows in air. that would include the cooties that grow on your cheese or bread.

all antibiotics kill certain bacteria and not others. that's why some vets/docs will culture the bacteria to see what exactly is growing, then prescribe the antibiotic for that particular bug. sometimes they just prescribe based upon what they assume, by their experience or training, is growing there, and then if the infection doesn't resolve, they try another antibiotic.
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R,+1R 447

I get it. I will refrain from posting on your threads.
Parting piece of advice: avoid DD BG; acros do not rise easily from low numbers.
Blues are acro greens. Greens are acro dangers.

Good luck.

Gayle, That's 3 words . Look, i really appreciate you dropping in and keeping tabs on Tommy, but i would like my condo to be reserved for support, advice and positive thinking.. I don't mean to be an a**, but before Tommy had the "Acro" word attached to him, he showed very nice numbers for me and quite often. I don't think that just because he is confirmed Acro that that is the cause of everything.. I know he has some other problems and i'm trying to get them taken care of. I know that it could be the Acro acting up, but it could be something else as well. If you are going to post in my condo, Please i just ask that it be for giving support or advice (on something i don't already know), or just to say hi and see how we're doing!
Click to expand...
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R,+1R 447

I think it is more accurate to say that acromegalic cats have a different type of diabetes mellitus, or even that they have diabetes mellitus in addition to (or even caused by) acromegaly.

From Merck Veterinary Manual (please click the links to read these quotes in context):

Impaired glucose tolerance and insulin resistance resulting in diabetes mellitus are seen in all cats with acromegaly.
Click to expand...
And from VIN:

Other specific types (formerly called secondary diabetes mellitus) may occur in approximately 20% of diabetic cats. They develop as a sequela of another disease, the most important of which are pancreatitis, hyperadrenocorticism and hypersomatotropism (acromegaly).
Click to expand...
and
Nearly all cats with hypersomatotropism will develop diabetes mellitus. Hypersomatotropism in cats is caused by a growth hormone (GH)-producing tumor (usually an adenoma) in the pars distalis of the pituitary gland. GH has catabolic and anabolic effects; the latter are in part mediated by insulin-like growth factor-1. The catabolic effects are mainly due to insulin antagonism and are the reason for the diabetes mellitus.
Click to expand...
There is also a nice, readable description of acromegaly on catacromegaly.com (FDMB's sister site).
 
Wow, this is what i get for saying how i feel.. I'm sorry you guys have to see this kind of stuff..
I don't even know what to say right now, i'm shaking.. I hate, hate hate confrontation and i should have kept my mouth shut.. I'm just trying to take care of Tommy the best way i know how and from learning from all of you and i find it careless to assume that Tommy being Acro is the cause of everything that is wrong with him now... Some one whom i trust completely told me that Tommy is still Tommy he just needs more insulin.. Sure there could be things that arise from he being acro, but again, he doesn't care about that.. I'll do my best and deal with whatever arises from the condition and like Linda said this morning I will cherish him with all my heart while he's here, and i won't love him any less or care for him any differently than i did before the diagnosis..
I'm sorry again you guys.. I have to go now.. :cry: I just can't deal with this any more right now..
Big Hugs :YMHUG: to all of you who have been there by my side through the complaining, the highs and the lows and just because you are my friends and i love you all

Libby, I think I was posting this while you sent that one.. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for everything, I'll go read all about that as soon as i can..
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R,+1R 447

Gayle and Shadoe said:
Parting piece of advice: avoid DD BG; acros do not rise easily from low numbers. Blues are acro greens. Greens are acro dangers.
Click to expand...
That is true in some cases, but not as a blanket statement. So far I don't see any examples on Tommy's spreadsheet of him being hard to control in green. I do think Squirrel would know how to handle herself if she ever does have trouble with numbers, though. She's a smart lady. :thumbup

Sorry for the condo hijack, Squirrel, I'll go back to work now.
 
I think it's not only fine, but appropriate, to let people know what you want and/or need. It's more likely to create conflict if people think you want their advice and really don't. Assertiveness is a good thing!!
 
Re: 5/19 Tommy +9 559, AMPS 487~.25R,+1R 447

Rebecca said:

Perry and all:

We DO have a forum right here on the FDMB for high dose/acrocats and of course there is no reason people can't post on multiple forums. Additionally, FelineDiabetes.com sponsors FelineAcromegaly.com (http://felineacromegaly.com or http://catacromegaly.com that has its very own message board.

Best,
Rebecca
Click to expand...
Yes indeedy !! Sorry I forgot to mention that!
As to my saying Acromegaly is not Diabetes, I really believe what I said. Acromegaly is caused by a tumor in the brain. "Regular" Diabetes is not. Therefore they are not the same disease. Many diseases have similar symptoms and therefore similar Tx but it doesn't make them the same thing (whatever VIN or anyone else may say).
 
There is nothing wrong with saying exactly what you are feeling. We are all dealing with pets that we love dearly and are trying to do the very best thing for them. That is not an easy thing and is very stressful at times, but it is what has brought us together. Just know that we care about you and understand what you are going through.

Good luck with the vet search. We just finally found our vet after 4 or 5 really bad ones. It is a larger clinic, so, when I called, I asked if there was a particular vet that specialized in canine orthopedics (our dog had a torn acl) and if there was another vet that specialized in feline diabetes. Thankfully there was and we have had very good luck with them. A vet may not be well versed in acro. However, if you bring it up to them and they are a caring and ambitious vet, they will see it as a learning opportunity and do their best to get up to speed on it. I suspect that there are very few vets who are acro specialists by experience alone.

Good luck Squirrel! Keep your chin up! You are doing a great job and doing everything you can for Tommy.
 
so true, melissa. my vet isn't a specialist either, but he's so willing to learn, and he's a wonderful caring human being.

squirrel, you'll do great checking out the new vets. just speak your concerns and see how they react. you'll know by the reactions if it's someone who's gonna work for you or not. when i went to the new vet they wanted me to bring punkin along - and it was helpful to have him there for them to look at. i thought that ended up being a good idea.
 
Squirrel, I want you to do something for me. Open Tommy's spreadsheet. Squint your eyes and scroll down through the spreadsheet fast. What do you see?

I see a MAJOR change from red all over the place to all yellow and blue and some green. Ok, the past 24 hours doesn't quite fit the pattern, but LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED! And don't overlook your comment in your first post today: "He's acting fine, 5p's in place pretty much every day and he plays now more than he did when he was younger". Priceless!

I was thinking that maybe you had room for a little dose increase tonight, but it looks like he is still coming down this afternoon so you might just want to wait and see.

Good luck with the vet search. I can't believe how lucky I was to find my current vet. I had just moved here, Lucy started peeing on things (always means a vet visit for her), I didn't know anybody so I went to the vet up the street. Sometimes things are just meant to be, I guess. :smile: She didn't know anything about acromegaly either, but she is willingly learning it now. I don't care if they already know about something, but I do care if they are interested in learning.
 
Perry & Sooty said:
Acromegaly is caused by a tumor in the brain. "Regular" Diabetes is not. Therefore they are not the same disease. Many diseases have similar symptoms and therefore similar Tx but it doesn't make them the same thing (whatever VIN or anyone else may say).
Click to expand...

Since I'm not a vet, I'm not going to presume to contradict textbooks and a veterinary information network that has provided all of us with good information. Acromegaly is indeed caused by a pituitary tumor. Diabetes, or the more common form of it, is cause by the malfunctioning of the pancreatic beta cells. However, in the case of acro, the pituitary is sending signals to the pancreas to turn on or off the beta cells. While the mechanism may be different, the net result, at least with regard to BG level, is the same. To beg the analogy, there can be many mechanisms underlying the cause of hypertension from obesity to cardiovascular disease to an adrenal tumor. The end result is still high blood pressure.
 
libby, thanks for that post about the overall changes. i need to hear that too. it's so easy to forget how far the kitters have come in a couple of months when you're just looking at today's drama with your cat.

in fact, i noticed today that punkin seems to be fluffy again - and when i took him in in December his fur was an oily mess - i had to use kitty wipes to clean him up. he used to lay next to his water bowl. been a long time now since that happened.

i looked at tommy's ss too - and what a great overall change to his health! he's back feeling good again!

so i appreciate you reminding us to look at the big picture. that's awesome - thank you!
 
Squirrel, I love you like a sister and I want you to do something for me...don't apologize for politely stating what you need from people. I have always considered myself to be a strong, independent woman, but this process we're all going through has broken me down to a point lower than I have ever been. I've never been a crybaby...until FD. I've never needed someone to hold my hand and reassure me so much,,,until FD. But I have come to the conclusion that being needy this one time in my life doesn't make me any less of a strong, independent woman. This too shall pass. We have great role models here in LL. I personally want to grow up to be quite a few of them (though i'm hitting 50 this summer so I'm probably older than half of them!!!! ) I've said this before to you... you don't have to be confrontational to stand up for yourself... and I think you've done a great job at it so far. Remember, head up, shoulders back, strong voice.
 
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