5/17 Mr. Kink AMPS - 310 - newbie here.

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Caitlin & Mr. Kink

Caitlin & Mr. Kink

Member Since 2012
Hi guys,

Some of you may recognize me from over on the Health forum where I have a post going about my first real vet visit (read: nightmare) with Mr. Kink. While I get that situation straightened out, I do have some Lantus that I got from there, and I do want to start treating him as soon as possible and learning how to do that effectively.

We just did our first two shots yesterday (technically, the FIRST was night before last, but it was a fur shot :roll:) - I just don't feel like the insulin is affecting him at all, because his numbers are the same as when I was home testing him pre-insulin (I deleted those numbers when I got the insulin and wanted to start over, which I now regret, but OH WELL.)

Are his numbers pretty normal for just starting out? The vet, who I'm loathe to take ANY advice from, did say that it could take a few weeks for the Lantus to start affecting his system at all. Does that mean at a different dose, or at his current 1u B.I.D.? (trying to use the right terminology :smile:)

Also, I feed him about 4 cans of FF per day, around every 3 hours. Is that affecting his numbers, too?

Sorry, just a newbie with lots of questions. Thanks for any help/insight!
 
A few weeks, no. Probably a few days. Give it about 6 cycles (that is, six AM/PM shots or 3 days) to decide what may or may not be happening at this dose.

Really sorry about your horrific vet experience. I hope it wasn't the vet I suggested from a friend of mine in Nashville... :?

MJ
 
Welcome and sorry you have had such a horrible vet experience! It takes a few days for the Lantus "shed" to fill up. In the meantime, you may want to start reading the stickies at the top of the group to get yourself acquainted with Lantus.
 
MJ - it definitely wasn't! Sorry - I've been in such a haze this past week. My grandmother passed away last Monday, there was a memorial this past weekend, etc. I believe your friend suggested the Nashville Cat Clinic in Antioch, right? I THINK I remember googling them and seeing something about their prices being a bit steep, so I went with a vet that I was referred to after he was DX. I spoke to her on the phone beforehand, and it seemed like it was going to be fine, but...well, you can read my post about it, but short story is, I think I need to find another one.

Thank you so much for asking your friend though. I will definitely call them and ask about their pricing myself rather than just going off of some Google reviews!

Alrighty - I will definitely give it 3 cycles and read up on Lantus! Thank you both for your responses :smile:
 
Hi Caitlin, welcome to LL! You're in the right place to get advice, help and encouragement. Be sure and ask lots of questions. Someone here will probably be able to help you. It might be a typo in your last post but you need to wait 3 days or 6 cycles to see what a dose will do. Also are the previous measurements on the gluccometer? Ours stores values for quite a while.
Liz, Zener's other mom
 
Welcome to Lantus Land.

It may take up to a week for you to start seeing Lantus working. When first starting out, Lantus needs to form an insulin depot (or "shed" as we refer to it colloquially). The depot is what gives Lantus it's long-acting and cumulative effects. The good news is you were seeing some drop in numbers yesterday. Mr. Kirk's numbers are about where I'd expect to see them for a diabetic cat that's just starting out on this adventure. Generally, you need to give your initial dose 5 - 7 days before contemplating a dose change.

Like others suggested, reading the starred sticky notes is a good way to start. Be forewarned -- there's a huge volume of information in them and you've going to be overwhelmed. We all were. For as long as I've been here, every time I go back and re-read the notes, I find something I've missed or forgotten. Re-reading them is a good thing!!

Please let us know how we can help. The people here are incredibly generous with their time and knowledge. Please ask questions. I hope you'll post regularly so we can see Mr. Kink's progress.
 
Welcome to LL! When first starting it can take several day, maybe up to a week for the shed to fill. There is a lot to be learned about FD and this is the best place to start. At the top of the forum are the "stickies" with more info than you will have thought possible on FD. Don't get overwhelmed, it can take several readings for it to sink in. Keep asking questions here, we have all been in your shoes and are now paying forward the help we got here.

I haven't read your story yet, but I can imagine. ohmygod_smile Many of us depend on this board for day to day dosing and advice, we need the vets for the Rx and periodic blood tests, but most vets just aren't up to date on the latest info. They hear Lantus is now used a lot but don't understand the differences for the older fast acting insulins. We have the advantage of being specialists. Plus there is almost always someone here to advise or just hold your hand! :YMHUG: :YMHUG:

If you have any record of those old numbers it may help to see them. When are you feeding in relation to your tests. Food before a test can pop the numbers up, so if you want to test try to do it before feeding. We usually test then feed then give the shot, every 12 hours. Lantus works best w/ consistent timing and dosing. Extra mini meals throughout the day are good too. It evens out the carb load.
 
Caitlin

Welcome to Lantus Land!! We are a pretty close family here and love to help each other so let us know your questions! There's almost always someone on 24/7 which is a great benefit and everyone is anxious to help.

You've already gotten the very basic info regarding the shed. I also took my Gracie's BG for several days before we started insulin and saw the same thing as you until her shed started filling. We say here that FD is a
marathon not a sprint and so we share our patience pants and rely on each other for support.

THanks for getting your SS set up and for the great way you posted your subject line...perfect! One thing we do from day to day is link our previous condo in the current day's condo so tomorrow, it will help us alot if you
can do that. Just open up your previous day's condo, copy the browser address, open a new condo, click on the "url" button and paste the browser address in between the brackets so it looks like this: paste browser link here

Two other quick things to help you and us. I know you have alot to read and the following is short but will help us help you: Making the Most of your Lantus TR ISG Experience

And....when you get the time....but no hurry (It's more important to read the stickys and ask questions), could you please do a profile for Mr. Kink? This allows us to quickly access important info about him without having to repeatedly
ask you. With so many kitties, we can't remember every one's meds, age, etc so the profile is immense help. Please let me know if you have questions....it's not as complicated as it seems :-D
Creating a Profile

Again..welcome!!
 
Here's the link to your last post in Health.http://www.felinediabetes.com/FDMB/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=71095

For those that haven't read her post in Health, the vet repackaged the Lantus! :o Definitely get a new Rx (and a new vet!) I hope some of the members in the area have given you some good leads on that. Ask for the Rx to be for the pens, if she sold you the correct U100 syringes you can continue to use them w/ the pens. Don't let the pharmacist tell you that you need to use the needle that humans attach to the pens. The auto dose on the pens using the needle is only for full units and once you start adjusting it is usually done in .25u increments. I've gotten the best price for the pens at Costco, about $200. When comparing the price of pens and vials remember that you get a total of 15ml with the pens and a much longer shelf life than the 10ml single vial.

Many here use the Relion meter and it works just fine! You just need to be consistent and not compare one meter to another. Even 2 of the same brand can be off. It is the trends in BG that you want to track.

It is easy to add more lines above those you have filled in and it would help if you could add the older numbers back in. We love numbers here! :lol: PM me if you need help.
 
Hi everyone! Wow, I can't tell you how good it felt to see all of your responses and kind words. I just wish I could give you all a giant bear hug.

Anne & Zener said:
It might be a typo in your last post but you need to wait 3 days or 6 cycles to see what a dose will do. Also are the previous measurements on the gluccometer? Ours stores values for quite a while.
Click to expand...

Yes! I meant 3 days/6 cycles. Sorry. Am on cold/congestion medication :mrgreen: I have a Relion Micro - I don't think it stores values. I did find previous posts on the Health forum that I made with specific numbers & times, so yay! Unfortunately, those were with a True2go meter, that I promptly abandoned when I found out that it reads low. I did do a curve on him with my Relion before he was on insulin, though, but those are lost to the ether. *HEADDESK* Oh well. I tried to fill it back in as best I could. I do know he was pretty steady in the 300s - 350s ALL DAY LONG before we got him the insulin.

Sienne and Gabby said:
Welcome to Lantus Land. Like others suggested, reading the starred sticky notes is a good way to start.
Click to expand...

Will do! Thanks for the welcome.

Ann & Tess said:
If you have any record of those old numbers it may help to see them. When are you feeding in relation to your tests. Food before a test can pop the numbers up, so if you want to test try to do it before feeding. We usually test then feed then give the shot, every 12 hours. Lantus works best w/ consistent timing and dosing. Extra mini meals throughout the day are good too. It evens out the carb load.
Click to expand...

I've always been testing before feedings, even since I started, so YAY. *pats self on back* I test, feed, shoot in the AM, then he usually gets another 2-3 cans throughout the day every 2-3 hours before I test, feed, shoot in the PM again. I feel like he's getting a LOT of food, and I don't want him to gain TOO MUCH weight (I have SEEN this cat get fat...it ain't pretty, but he's usually 16-17 lbs and currently 14lbs), but I know he needs lots of food right now because his body can't process all of the nutrients, so I've pretty much just been giving him a can whenever he's hungry, but never more than 5 cans in a day (I feed FF, btw).

Marjorie and Gracie said:
THanks for getting your SS set up and for the great way you posted your subject line...perfect! One thing we do from day to day is link our previous condo in the current day's condo so tomorrow, it will help us alot if you
can do that. Just open up your previous day's condo, copy the browser address, open a new condo, click on the "url" button and paste the browser address in between the brackets so it looks like this: paste browser link here
Click to expand...

Noted! No prob - I have a lot of exp with message boards, so I try to acclimate pretty quickly ;-) I'll get on creating him a profile ASAP.

Ann & Tess said:
For those that haven't read her post in Health, the vet repackaged the Lantus! Definitely get a new Rx (and a new vet!) I hope some of the members in the area have given you some good leads on that. Ask for the Rx to be for the pens, if she sold you the correct U100 syringes you can continue to use them w/ the pens.
Click to expand...

GAH, isn't it terrible? And I didn't know any better. :sad: Well, now I know. I guess I'll try and get her to give me a new Rx, but somehow I don't think that's gonna work. So, it might have to be new vet time (for several reasons) - a couple of board members have contacted me about helping to find a vet in my area, so I just have to make that a priority. Do you think it's ok if I keep using this insulin in the meantime? I know it's definitely not ideal, but I don't want him to go without, and I don't know how long it'll be before I have time to make some calls, make a new appt, see a new vet, etc.

She did tell us to buy the correct syringes, at least. Got 'em from Walgreens. 100 box of U-100 .3 mL - 31 gauge - 5/16" needle. I'm about to go tell my Health forum friends about it, because they're concerned.

Thank you all sosososo much for all of your responses and support, from the bottom of my heart. This has been a rough journey so far. My sister thinks I'm a little obsessed because I'm constantly checking and reading this message board, but there is such a wealth of information and success stories here that I'm definitely clinging to it with all my might.
 
3 - 4 cans of food is a LOT of calories. If you've not been introduced to Lisa Pierson, DVM's site on feline nutrition, it's extremely helpful. There's a section on obesity where she gives a formula for calculating calories per day based on a cat's best weight. You may want to take a look. It used to be that the prevailing wisdom was to let a newly diagnosed cat eat as much as they want since the diabetes was compromising their nutrition. That thinking has been modified since many cats were gaining back whatever weight they lost and then some.

As for the syringes, you want the same syringes but with half unit markings.

Hmmm..... Lantus is only for felines? How interesting. It actually does not have an FDA indication in the US for use with any animal. Either the tech or the vet is sorely misinformed.

I've sent a note to someone I know in Nashville. We'll see about some names of vets for you.
 
I'm glad Sienne sent a note to the same person I was going to send one to as she has a really great vet in Nashville.

I got a chance to read your Health post. One thing I will advise you of is that if you are home testing, please do not let a vet talk you into doing glucose curves in their office. The numbers are typically inflated due to vet stress. In fact, it's usually better to do a good job of getting spot checks moreso than doing a glucose curve and we can help you with this.

I wonder if you can just call that vet, tell her you were reading about Solostar pens, and ask her to write a script for a box of five 3 ml pens.
 
Sienne and Gabby said:
3 - 4 cans of food is a LOT of calories. If you've not been introduced to Lisa Pierson, DVM's site on feline nutrition, it's extremely helpful.
Click to expand...

I'll definitely check it out. He's just sooooo hungry all the time. I started him out at 3 cans/day and then people on the board told me to let him eat because he's starving, so we upped it. :-| I'll check out that site, though and do the formula.

Sienne and Gabby said:
As for the syringes, you want the same syringes but with half unit markings.
Click to expand...

Just checked, and mine have 1/2 unit markings!

Sienne and Gabby said:
I've sent a note to someone I know in Nashville. We'll see about some names of vets for you.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much! Kathy (of Kathy & Kitty) got in touch and gave me the name of her vet. If it's someone different, I'll gladly take more names. Appreciate it!

Marjorie and Gracie said:
One thing I will advise you of is that if you are home testing, please do not let a vet talk you into doing glucose curves in their office. The numbers are typically inflated due to vet stress.
Click to expand...

Gotcha - I know that the curves will be higher there. I just figured it was a way of compromising with them, but I see your point. It's pretty pointless to do if they understand that concept!

Marjorie and Gracie said:
I wonder if you can just call that vet, tell her you were reading about Solostar pens, and ask her to write a script for a box of five 3 ml pens.
Click to expand...

I'm going to try that tomorrow morning. Play nice so she'll give me the script and see how it goes.
 
Of course you're obsessed. We are too! :lol: :lol: :lol: I read Mr. Kink's profile, what a handsome guy! I think the dates may be a little off. Maybe the birth date is in the diabetes dx date?

Date of birth (or an estimate): MO-DY-YEAR
Date of diabetes dx: 11-10-2002

You are doing a great job.
Liz
 
AHHH, thanks Liz!

Yeah, he definitely hasn't been diabetic for 9.5 years. That would be pretty sad if I was still this much of a newbie...hahaha. Thanks for the heads up!
 
I have another suggestion after I noticed he has neuropathy. Zener was having that problem last summer. We started him on zobaline, a form of B12, one pill per day. It took a couple of months but the neuropathy is gone and he walks normally for him, not on his hocks, any more. Getting his BG a little better regulated helped too. We cut the zobaline into quarters and put the pieces in a bit of pill pocket, Dog version is the same formula as the cat version, just 8 times bigger. Get the duck and pea flavor because that doesn't have sugar but does have carbs. We try to use is strategically to help stop a sharp drop at +1 or +2. Zener is a bouncy boy so he can drop quickly then bounce up to higher numbers. This might be a little more than you can manage right now which is fine. You have the information if you need it.
Liz
 
Welcome to lantus land--Sorry for the horrible experience you had with that vet!!
Moonie gets 4 cans a day, but eats only like 2-2 1/2 of it..She is on lantus & has been for over 4 yrs..
She is doing well, and the most important thing is to be patient & consistant..FD cats do need to have food and once they get regulated they do eat less..You have done everything right here so far, so do ask questions,there are many helpful people here in our family..5-7 days on this dose, and you may see some improvement. Hopefully he will respond & in time will get better & better--
Mu Moonie has neuropathy & is taking Methylcobalamin , which is the same as the Zobaline, ours is just from a different company--It does help the neuropathy a lot--
Glad you found us--we all do the sugar dance-and again Welcome!
 
Anne & Zener said:
I have another suggestion after I noticed he has neuropathy. Zener was having that problem last summer. We started him on zobaline, a form of B12, one pill per day.
Click to expand...

Thanks, Liz! It's actually gotten pretty bad. He slips all over the place, and can't jump up on beds anymore, so he just cries until you pick him up and put him on the bed with you :cry: It's actually what got us to take him to the vet in the first place - we thought it was arthritis. We should've taken him when the PU/PD started, but we really just thought it was because of the switch to kibble that was making him drink more.

I just tried to order it from my phone, but put the wrong billing address by accident, and now it's saying out of stock. I think I broke it. ohmygod_smile I'll try again tomorrow. Thank you so much for the link!

Thanks for the warm welcomes, Roni & Moonie, Amy & TrixieCat and Ella & Rusty! cat_pet_icon Appreciate you all so much.
 
This darn technology can be so annoying. Good luck getting it ordered. Anne likes to do that stuff and I don't. :lol: :lol:
Liz
 
Caitlin

Could you please start a new condo for today? We'd love to hear an update, too, but we always start with a new condo each day. You don't need to respond to this one :-D
 
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